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Everything posted by carbking

  1. Here is another link, published with authority from Carter: Early Carter BB-1 service document Jon.
  2. As previously stated in this thread, the original carbs would be Carter AFB, and also as mentioned, different carbs for different years. Most are available with some looking, but depending on one's experience, one may (or may not) feel they are pricey! You can find original application part numbers for 1964 here: 1939-1964 Buick carb applications and for 1965 here: 1965-1974 Buick carb applications The carbs on your engine were produced by Rochester. At different times, and in different literature, Rochester called them: (A) 4-jet (B) 4GC (C) Quadrajet Most enthusiasts refer to the 4M (1965 and newer spread-bore style) carburetor as quadrajets, and the older carbs such as these as 4GC's or 4-Jet's; but the term quadrajet is technically correct. Looks like both of these were originally used by Oldsmobile. Cadillac, Pontiac, and Packard all used this style (not these specific carbs) of Rochester for dual quad applications; Cadillac in 1955, Pontiac in 1956, and Packard in both 1955 and 1956. Excellent carbs. Jon.
  3. I have just loaded a tremendous amount of factory Marvel literature on my website from about 1915 through 1931. This is my personal collection (I now have all of the data necessary for me on my computer). Trying to make some room. I have only one each of most of this material. First come, first serve. I do not expect the glove box booklet collection to last long. Eventually, I will load the large 8 1/2 by 11 hard cover loose-leaf master books. I have several of these, but being loose-leaf, some pages have grown legs. I wish to go through these, and make certain when I offer one, it is complete. The easiest way I have found to identify the early Marvels (before the 10- casting numbers) is by using pictures of the throttle arms, which are nearly unique. Some of the early parts booklets picture these arms, and cross-reference them to the application. As always: 573-392-7378 (9-4 Mon-Tues central time). MasterCard/VISA accepted with no fees. Jon.
  4. Sorry - all kits for Marvels are made to order. Jon.
  5. Typically, a kit for the early Marvel carb will contain: Fuel valve (a.k.a. needle and seat) Float (new pontoon only, reuse the float arm) Air valve spring Fillister head assembly screws Complete set of gaskets, including the mounting gasket. Seals, when used. Other items not in the kits are often available. I apologize for the time frame. As I passed retirement age more than a decade ago, I am no longer willing to work 90~100 hours a week; although I still average about 40. There are some things in life (example: family) that are more important than the manufacture of rebuilding kits. As we offer more than 10,000 different rebuilding kits to motor enthusiasts (we do car, truck, tractor, marine, and industrial); we are generally behind, sometimes very behind. And with Marvel, about the only components for which there is a large interchange from carburetor to carburetor are the round fiber washers, and the Fillister-headed screws. Mass reproduction of parts of which you sell three a year (or fewer) is not economically smart! Thus, the kits are custom-made. I keep hoping I will find some youngster in his/her 40's/50's that would enjoy the business, and would like to acquire it. There are hungry fish in the Lake of the Ozarks that keep calling my name! It might be nice to answer them! Jon.
  6. Quote Mark Weatherbee "Jon, that’s a really interesting vehicle that I never knew existed and it looks great! One question, without a carburetor won’t it lead to your businesses demise? (Sorry, but I couldn’t resist...)" End quote I have been interested in electric vehicles my entire life; and would have purchased an electric car in the 1970's except for what I considered a silly Missouri law which has now been repealed. The lack of a carburetor is a problem, as I have roughly 150,000 of the silly things to either use or move. Quote Lebowski "I have a late model Deere riding mower/garden tractor and have always been a JD fan and I was wondering how wide is the mowing deck? How long does it take to recharge the batteries? What's the top speed-about 4 mph like mine? You're not really going to mow your lawn every week with it, are you? Thanks for bringing it back to life. It looks great...." End quote The deck is still in the shop, but remember it being 38 inches. This is the first one I have owned that the onboard charger worked, and I have absolutely no plans to abuse it. We always pulled the jumpers and charged each battery with a car battery charger. And this one will never mow another blade of grass as long as I own it. Top speed is faster than I can run at age ......... Quote Edinmass (or Florida) "Jon.......make sure it doesn’t run lean! " End quote It is supposed to run lean, it is a lean green machine The same shop is doing one of the production models, a later 96, for me as well. Jon
  7. 1909 paperback book of 47 pages titled "The A B C of Carburetor Construction". Some of the pages are advertisements. Covers the theory of carburetion, intake manifold design, comparisons of various carburetor components such as float operation, air-valve operation, mixing valves, other. Individual makes of carburetors covered include: Amplex, Bennett, Bowers, Breeze, Carter, Chadwick, Franklin, G & A, Gaeth, Holley, Kingston, Locomobile, Matheson, Maxwell, Mayer, Peerless, Pierce-Arrow, S.G.V., Stearns, Stromberg, and Willett. Illustrations, as well as descriptive text. Covers (paper) are not perfect. Original staples were pulled through, and pages have been restapled. A thin strip of bookbinder's tape has been placed on the spine. Inside pages, other than being discolored and 110 years old, are in very good condition. This is a really good early carburetor reference. Price $250. includes shipping within the 48 contiguous United States. MasterCard and/or VISA accepted without fees. 573-392-7378 (9-4 Mon-Tues central time). Jon.
  8. Appears to be a Carter type BB-1 identification BB1D. While lots of BB-1's show up on Ebay, you can use either a BB1A or BB1D. Best to ignore any other BB-1's (and no, I do not have either to sell to you, sorry). Jon.
  9. Mud at Hershey????? Really????? The biggest myth about the prototypes is that the companies wish to buy them back at huge sums. While a few may have slipped out the back door; most of the prototypes, whether vehicles or components, were sold with the companies blessing. Why would the companies wish to buy them back? A lot of years ago, I got a call from a customer and friend who dad recently attended an auction of "surplus" from the Henry Ford museum. Some youngster fresh out of college made the decision to part with the Ford display of prototype Stewart-Warner (not a typo), Kingston, and Holley carburetors for Ford T, A, 4 cylinder Chevrolet, early 6 cylinder Chevrolet, etc. He bought them, thinking I would want them, which I did. I paid him his asking price (not a lot). Virtually all of these were experimental units that were produced ONLY as prototypes. They were so in demand, and so valuable that I ended up beating off the prospective customers with a baseball bat (here, think of the Tooth Fairy, or the Easter Bunny, or.....) Actually, I sent most of the Holley units to a friend at Holley (free) when Holley was setting up their museum. I figured that is where these units belonged. Also sent them a bunch of very rare, but seemingly worthless Holley literature. I was quite shocked to receive several large boxes of obsolete Holley parts a few weeks later (so I guess the prototypes did have some value, but had to give them away first. What a trade! (American Pickers, are you reading?) Gave some stuff I couldn't sell to Holley, who in turn gave me some stuff they couldn't sell)! I do miss the "swap meet friends" that were made at Hershey, Iola, Lawrence, etc. One of the big benefits of attending those meets. Jon.
  10. And a comment concerning comments by both Matt and Lump about prototypes and one-off units: There are lots of prototypes that exist! I personally have custody of the first Stromberg 4-barrel (from the office of the Chief Engineer of Stromberg Carburetor Company), the first Carter 4-barrel carburetor (from the Customer Service Division of Carter Carburetor Company), and the ONLY Stromberg 3-barrel (also from the office of the Chief Engineer) just to name a few. Also, this John Deere Electric prototype just last week came home from the restoration shop. The identification plate indicates a prototype. This was acquired from an engineer from Deere who worked on the Electric project, and then purchased the prototype along with a production model new from Deere. Here is the link to the thread on these forums: I have numerous carburetor prototypes in my collection, probably well over 100. The stuff DOES exist. But the stories of the company wanting to buy them back at ridiculous monetary figures is.......just ridiculous, and is truly a myth Jon.
  11. Since my name was mentioned, will throw in my two cents. To start with, I am not now, have never been, and have no intention of ever being, an expert on Holley carbs, ESPECIALLY the end-bowl variety! That being said, as others have mentioned, the 4144-1 was used on Chrysler tripower with E.C.S. as a center carb. The numbers on the others were probably destroyed by the chroming process (see below). But Jerry's story could have merit, which has been misunderstood, again, read on. The chroming of zinc alloy (a.k.a. "white metal" or "pot metal") carburetors is a HORRIBLE idea! WHY???? Because the heat necessary to apply the chrome using the available chroming methods is generally higher than the "slumpage" temperature for zinc alloy. When I was still restoring carburetors, I had several sent to me apart, chromed, AND RUINED, to rebuild. They were simply returned as was. Plating is not my arena of expertise, but I have been told by those in the industry that a plating technique using lower temperatures, and emitting much more pollution, was available prior to the push to reduce pollutants. So early hot rodders could have their carbs chromed. Even perfect chroming will disturb the airflow, so chroming would probably only be valuable to an owner of a show car that was only going to be driven on/off the trailer. So maybe Jerry meant that the carbs were standard carburetors, but the finish was done for the show. As far as being to valuable to own? My opinion would be the chromed versions are probably worth SIGNIFICANTLY LESS than a dirty, greasy set found at a swap meet! No owner of a restored stock show Chrysler would want them, as they would lose maximum points when judged. As someone else mentioned, if you are happy with them, then enjoy them. Jon.
  12. What is missing is an access plug, which gave access to the nozzle which may also be missing, cannot tell. Jon.
  13. I have never seen any service literature on your throw-away unit. So, guessing: 1 is probably the idle mixture adjustment. Many updraft carbs had an inverse idle circuit (air metering instead of fuel, in for rich, our for lean). Don't know on yours. On most real carburetors, suggested starting point was 1 turn. 2 is probably the high speed adjustment. I have yet to see an inverse high speed circuit, but have no ideas on yours. Most real carburetors would use 2 1/2 turns as a starting point. Use the above settings at your own risk, again, guessing! On a different subject, the Stewart/Detroit was one of the finest carburetors produced during the time frame of your car. If you think it is unconventional, think of it as a USA-produced S.U. Maybe that will help. Jon.
  14. Just a suggestion - reread the post above by JB-ed; then read it again! I totally understand budget constraints. My Dad used to tell me I had champagne taste, and beer income! About 25 years ago, I came up with a lot of "boilerplate" answers to email questions. The following was WRITTEN AT THAT TIME! EARLY ZINC CASTINGS The carburetor for which you are inquiring is one of a group of auto parts (carburetors, fuel pumps, door handles, generator back plates, etc.) made from a zinc alloy (“pot metal”, “white metal”, etc.) that is chemically unstable and therefore not useable. We once submitted a sample of this metal to a metalurgist who tested it and informed us that there was about 4 times the amount of lead in this mix as in the later (about 1935) mix. This material cracks with age and heat. Carburetors which fall into this category include: Schebler model U Johnson model H and model R Marvel (all with zinc alloy bodies 1925~1930,31) Stromberg model T and model U Tillotsons from 1923 through 1935 Zenith model 105 THERE ARE NO GOOD ORIGINALS LEFT IN OUR SOLAR SYSTEM! We will NOT for any amount of money rebuild these carburetors. While we do have some of these units for sale; they are sold with the understanding that the are NOT rebuildable, but may be used as patterns to have new castings made from aluminum, and then transfer other parts (shafts, jets, float, etc.). The castings have not improved in 25 years. You have options: One of the best (and one of the more pricey) is obtaining castings from Mr. Smith. However, there are a number of aftermarket carbs which may also be used, some better than others. Don't destroy a nice antique car, or worse, someone's health, by using the original Stromberg U-2 castings. Jon.
  15. Have most of the really old stuff now listed, and started with the newer literature. Have listed several Master Parts, and Master Service books covering the years from 1941 to 1968. Each edition will have a slightly different coverage, but the coverage is listed with each book. As many of you know, these are loose-leaf books that were sent in loose-leaf form for the dealer/jobber/distributor to place in his own binder (binders were also available at extra cost from Stromberg). Each of these loose-leaf books IS COMPLETE! Each was checked against my masters. I always kept one of everything, so I had one of each edition, but due to the overlap of editions, I still have complete coverage without the need of retaining one of each edition, therefore now have them listed. There will be more (especially if the weather stays the way it currently is ) , so if what you want is not listed, either check back later, or email me. Jon.
  16. Just added a lot of early Schebler factory literature to my website: Jon.
  17. If you are still looking for the Stromberg G literature: Jon.
  18. Both the 1966 Rochester Q-Jet and the 1964~1966 Carter AFB's have both advantages, AND disadvantages. Call if you wish to discuss. 573-392-7378 (9-4 Mon-Tues central time). Jon.
  19. Too many variables to really give you an exact answer. Give me a call to discuss. No obligation, and no charge for consultation. Some things to consider: Terrain where the vehicle will be driven Plans (shows, touring, parades, etc.) Authenticity desire (period, modern, etc.) Fuel delivery system (original, electric pump) And finally, budget 573-392-7378 (9-4 Mon-Tues central time). Jon.
  20. No, it is not an antique car. But it is a true one of one.This prototype of the John Deere Electric rear engine rider was rescued from a weed patch at a farm auction in central Missouri about 30 years ago. We stored it inside until we had the opportunity to have it professionally restored (no, I did NOT do the work.....I cannot paint )The mower deck is still at the restoration shop. It was an absolute mess, rusted badly from the TOP side. One of the reasons for the electric was to sell it to suburban yuppies to be able to mow with less noise. However, Deere found that the noise of the whirling blades was almost equal to that of the engine on gasoline powered mowers. So they glued insulation strips on the outside of the mower deck to attempt to quiet the sound. These absorbed moisture and caused rust (just like the *&^%$#@ car cover I stupidly put on one of my GTO's......very bad idea in areas with high humidity). I will post a picture of the deck when it is finished.John Deere was way ahead of the public with these electric mowers (they debuted in 1970). The prototype was probably assembled in 1969. The Deere dealers literally hated these, and the general public wasn't much different. They did not sell well.I have been interested in electric vehicles my entire life; and would have purchased an electric car in the 1970's except for what I considered a silly Missouri law which has now been repealed.About 1980, when Dad and I were trying to acquire parts, information, etc. on the electrics, I asked a sales manager who had been at the dealership long enough to remember the Electrics why the dealers hated them as they did.He laughed, and said there were two ways a salesman could get fired from the dealership. The first was to have an affair with the bosses wife, the second was to trade for a used electric.After we finished laughing, he told us that because the electric drive motor was so quiet, the motor was often left on, running down the batteries. And the servicemen were not then really up on electronics; and the onboard charger was not overly reliable.But this is the only one of one vehicle I have ever owned (I do have quite a few one of one carburetors), and I found it strictly by accident.The mower actually works very well, and if one will mow about once every five days, 3/4 of an acre may be mowed on a battery charge.Jon.
  21. Does the new fuel tank have a vent, and is it open? Jon.
  22. You still need a carb! What you have is the infamous Marvel / Schebler model HU. This is a Rayfield design, made in the Marvel / Schebler plant after their acquisition by Borg-Warner. Originally, the carb DID have a maker's name. It was a water decal that came off with the first engine warm-up. The name-du-jour could have been Rayfield, Johnson, Marvel/Schebler, Wizard, etc., depending on what cut-rate mail-order house was the seller. Sold by J.C. Whitney, Warshawski, Sears, Western Auto, etc. to those customers too frugal to purchase a gasket set for their original carburetor. To my knowledge, even Marvel / Schebler did not offer a rebuilding kit; and I have no intention of ever doing so. Jon.
  23. Something that comes to mind after the last post. Have you checked the throttle bracket hole (should be round) and the pump operating rod end (should also be round, with NO groove of wear). If these items are sufficiently worn, the metering rod will rise to early, and the carb would always be on a richer step than it should be. Jon.
  24. You have my curiosity aroused. You are correct about the standard carb vis-a-vis the taxi carb, the only difference is the rod. Now, as far as the standard carburetor running rich. I am not doubting that yours does, but the question is why. I checked the Carter service bulletins for 1936. There is no issue with that carb running rich, no factory fixes. I checked the Pontiac service bulletins for 1936 (I have a complete set of these). Again, there is no record of rich running. The only possible bulletin that might deal will rich running is the use of the thermostats. Pontiac recommended a 160 degree in winter, and a 142 degree in summer. The thermostat fully opens at 30 degrees above the rating, and the bulletin suggested that the thermostat not opening fully could restrict coolant flow, thus spot heating. The big issues in 1936 were the radio and the front shocks. Seems there was something in almost every monthly bulletin about both. I guess I would like to know why your engine is running rich. It would seem if it were an issue from new, there would be a service bulletin. Jon.
  25. First I had heard about resetting the float (permanently). EDIT: when a customer needs to recalibrate (different cam, different compression, multiple carbs, etc.) we suggest changing the float ON A TEMPORARY BASIS (TESTING ONLY) 1/16 inch either higher or lower to see the effects. Generally, 1/16 inch is going to be close to one size calibration. And one can gauge from this the importance of an exact float setting. This allows our customers to spend less funds guessing on calibrations. Not sure why you are asking about lean rods with ethanol. Since ethanol has less energy than gasoline (even with a 10 percent mix the engine runs slightly lean); most folks are looking for a richer rod to use with the E-10. But to answer your question, there was no production 3-step lean rod. In virtually all cases, Carter did not change from the standard jet, changing the rod instead. Carter basically used calibrations as follows: Sea level ~ 4000 feet - standard 4001 feet ~ 6000 feet - 1 size lean 6001 feet ~ 7000 feet - 2 sizes lean Today, with ethanol, that chart is out the window. We find that in many cases, those living in altitude of say 3500 ~ 5000 feet all pretty much spot on with the lower energy of the E-10; and do not need to change to the leaner rod. My suggestion is pretty much calibrate the carburetor as the original manufacturer (in this case, Carter) would have done originally AS A BASELINE, then tune from that point as necessary. Jon.