carbking

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Everything posted by carbking

  1. Very well worth the time to read. Very enjoyable, both what is written, and what is implied. Jon.
  2. Now there is a resolution that i LIKE!!! Jon.
  3. Automobile related, everyone is going to lose weight! 😜 Does anyone ever lose weight? I have but two: (1) Finish digitizing most of the existing Stromberg Carburetor Company (USA) records. I acquired the records in 1984, and this has been a continuing project. It appears, at least at the current rate of progress, should finish in maybe October or November. (2) Continue the transfer of some of my automotive "treasures" to younger enthusiasts (well, maybe older ones as well). Neither of my children collect things automotive. Jon.
  4. This link should help: http://www.thecarburetorshop.com/Koldsmobile1.htm Jon.
  5. Ben - I am an old geezer that doesn't dislike telephones as much as I detest the necessary evil of email To protect the integrity of our computer systems, emails are sent to an off-site computer and checked Sunday afternoons, TIME PERMITTING. If time doesn't permit, then next Sunday afternoon. Would be best if you call Monday. Others: After re-reading my posts, it seems I neglected to post clearances. As a general rule, both the Rochester 4-Jet and the Carter WCFB used 0.004~0.006 as a design tolerance. Additional field wear of 0.003 is acceptable. So if the clearance as measured with a dial indication, not click-click, is less than 0.010 best to leave alone. I have yet to see either the cast iron WCFB or the cast iron 4-Jet require bushings. The earlier WCFB and 4-Jet has aluminum throttle bodies, which occasionally do need bushing (very rare). The Carter AFB is a different animal with the huge aluminum throttle body; and initial tolerance of 0.016~0.022 were used.Will the throttle body suck some air before it heats up? Sure. Did the engineers allow for this? Guess what? The automatic choke is heat activated to the warm of the engine, NOT a timed electric, and increases the mixture until the engine warms. Sometimes engineers really do know what they are doing I have yet to see a Carter AFB that required bushing. On a personal note: when I bushed my first carb (for my own car, experiment on my own before doing for customers), I set the tolerance at 0.004 just like the minimum design. Now, I have some pretty good machinery, and I think I am pretty cautious; but I do not (for the most part) have production quality equipment. The first time the engine warmed, the throttle shaft seized in the throttle body. Took out the shaft, and resized to 0.005 clearance with no more issues. So from then on, I used 0.005 as my standard. Since this is concerning Buicks: Buick used the Stromberg type WW for years. The WW was an excellent carb, but with the Achilles heel of an aluminum throttle body. The first rebuild of ANY Stromberg WW should include bushing the throttle body. After that, the WW is virtually bullet-proof. Same 0.004~0.006 for the WW. Finally: if the tolerance exceeds the limits: BEFORE bushing the throttle body, disassemble the throttle body, removing the throttle shaft (FILE THE BACK SIDE OF THE SCREWS OFF FIRST!!!!!). Now measure the out-of-round of the throttle shaft. Much easier to replace the shaft (although they aren't inexpensive) than bushing the throttle body. Fix what needs to be fixed. Jon.
  6. The above post was made in a hurry. Adding: The reason for never reaming the throttle body, and for not using a drill bit is quite simple. Pretend that your are Superman and have X-Ray vision. If you ream the throttle body through, and install the bushings, with your X-Ray vision looking down on the throttle body, you can see two tiny triangles on each side of the bushing where the flat end of the bushing meets the curvature of the throttle bore. These are sufficiently large to allow internal air to bypass the throttle valve. This often will result in a very high idle, as too much air will be present at idle. Additionally, trying to adjust the idle for the extra air may mean closing the throttle valve to the point where there is no mixture flow in the idle transition circuit, thus causing a hesitation when accelerating from the idle to the off-idle or idle transition circuit. When using the end mill, measure the distance from outside the throttle body to the throttle bore so you can leave approximately 0.030 inch or more to maintain the curvature of the throttle bore. Since the drill bit is cut at an angle, using a drill bit will leave a cavity with edges between the bushing and the remaining material. Carburetors are certainly not rocket science, but they do require correct maintenance. With no offense meant to anyone; this is a procedure that is best left to a professional with the correct machines. No, I do NOT offer this service! I have been asked many times over the years to offer a kit for installing bushings. My answer has been "if you have the machines to properly do the work, you don't need the kit; and if you do not have the machines to do the work, you definitely do not need the kit"! Jon
  7. Reaming is done to the bushings AFTER the bushings are installed to obtain the final clearance. Reaming the throttle body might also result in reaming one's wallet!!!!! Machining the throttle body for the bushings, IF YOU WANT GOOD RESULTS, should be done with an end mill in a milling machine, or at worst, a very high quality drill press. A DRILL BIT SHOULD NOT BE USED! Lots of carburetor throttle bodies are unnecessarily bushed!!!!! Check the original manufacturer's specifications, AND MEASURE! (Using one's index finger to move the throttle shaft back and forth is an insufficient measure ). And certainly not all tolerances are the same, even within the same manufacturer! Jon.
  8. In the For What Its Worth category, followed by the Why Didn't It Happen category: Was researching a different carburetor in the Stromberg experimental files today, and found an entry where Stromberg built an experimental downdraft type EE-3 (Packard, Duesenberg, others) for Buick for use on the 1932 series 90. Carb was released 8 February 1932. No other information in the file. Jon.
  9. Just to add a wee bit to Ed's comments above: While we manufacture carb kits, and do offer kits for the Johnson carbs, this is a carburetor that screams: "send me to a professional". And no, we no longer restore carburetors, so not grinding my own ax. Ed - you might be interested to know that we once manufactured a replica of the original cork float in the closed cellular foam, but gave up on it because of individuals that couldn't get the funky double float axle arrangement to work. And most of the hinge arrangements are worn out. Better to not sell the float than have an enthusiast with a fire! And as Ed mentioned, lots of incorrect parts out there, or just plain misunderstandings. The fuel valve for the V-8 carbs has a much larger orifice than the ones for the 12/16. Jon.
  10. The float is adjusted by changing the thickness of the gasket beneath the fuel valve seat. Don't know about any brass floats Jon.
  11. And just to follow up on my comment about a "new" carburetor: To make one of the e-clones work properly on a Buick engine (at least for awhile), one would need to change: primary jets, step-up piston springs, step-up rods, secondary jets, and auxiliary air valve; AND re-machine primary venturii clusters and secondary venturii clusters. And the original air cleaner still would not fit, plus there are linkage issues. Jon.
  12. To MAYBE answer your question: If you TRUST the aftermarket (Motors, Chiltons, etc.) manuals: 1964 Riv with single 4 barrel times at 2 1/2 BTDC 1964 Riv with 2x4 times at 12 BTDC I don't have the factory manual, and I don't put a lot of trust in the aftermarket ones. Jon.
  13. Suggestions: (1) shop manual - ignore (2) through (4) until you have this one in hand. then (2) compression test (3) ignition test (4) carburetor test (you said new - does that mean new to you original, or new as replacement as in one size fits all, works well on none?) Find out WHY the engine was running poorly, solve that issue to get the engine running correctly; then if your want to downgrade from the carb to the efi, go for it. Good luck, and please keep us posted. Jon.
  14. Probably not a leak: http://www.thecarburetorshop.com/Troubleshooting.htm#Hardstartcold Jon.
  15. Have had a few inquiries as to why I didn't just make copies. While I tried to explain this in the original post, someone once said a picture is worth a 1000 words. So, here is a photocopy of an original page for GMC: Stromberg code book original page And here is a copy of what we now have: Stromberg Code Book new printing Jon
  16. Shirley - THANK YOU for posting! I am always interested in the men behind the carburetor history, but my main focus is the original drawings (or copies) of the carburetors and their parts. Pages from illustrated parts books with listings by part numbers are the most prized, but any technical data is helpful. Again, thanks for posting. Jon.
  17. After years of transcribing, I now have the complete Stromberg Code Book digitized, and able to print "readable" information. While "readable" in quotations? The original code book (I have the original single copy, and a photocopy I did for off-site backup 40 years ago) was mostly typed, but on lined paper, and the typewritten information didn't always square with the lines. Additionally, most later entries were hand-written in red pencil, which over a period of 60-80 years has faded. The code book contains an index of carburetors produced for specific companies, both original and aftermarket replacement, from roughly 1925 (some earlier) to 1974 (last production Stromberg carburetor). There are no calibration specifications, but I can provide those at additional cost for a large majority of the carburetors listed. This book is one of my main reference guides when choosing a replacement carburetor to replace original carbs which are either simply no longer available, or extremely pricey. These carbs were selected and calibrated by engineers for specific applications. I will print and mail these 8 1/2 by 11 laser printed copies at $20./company or $50./3 companies or $100/7 companies. Above 7 companies $12./company. A list of companies and the associated Stromberg code number follows: Jon. Stromberg Code Customer Index Customer name Code number A. C. Ernat 188 Acadia Gas Engine 116 ACF (American Car & Foundry Company) 132 Acme Meter Truck Company 129 Acme Road Machine Company 158 Ahrens-Fox 71 Allis-Chalmers 128 American Austin 73 American Bantam 258 American Foundry Equipment Company 238 American Hoist & Derrick Company 175 American LaFrance 99 American Motor Body Company 170 Apex Motor Manufacturing Company 253 Auburn 17 Austin Machine Corporation 241 Austin Manufacturing Company 219 Autocar 31 Automatic Machine Company 169 Automatic Transpart Company 229 Available 70 Avery Company 226 Barber-Greene Company 227 Bay City Shovel Company 247 Beaver Engines 264 Bendix Export Division (Rolls Royce) 252 Bickle 68 Biederman Motors Corporation 192 Boat Engines 61 Bowen Motors Railway Corporation 172 Brennan Manufacturing Company 146 Bridgeport 75 Brockway 49 Brown Equipment & Manufacturing 245 Browning Crane Company 262 Buckeye Traction Company 81 Bucyrus-Erie Company 149 Buda 35 Buffalo Fire Appliance Company 267 Buffalo Gas Engine Company 123 Buffalo Springfield Roller Company 107 Buick 7 Byers Machinery Company 89 Cadillac Motor Company 205 Case Tractor 244 Caterpillar Tractor 213 Chain Belt Company 190 Chandler Motor Car Company 161 Checker Cab 265 Chevrolet 14 Chris-Craft Marine 254 Chrysler 4 Clark Brothers Company 228 Clark Tractor 121 Cleveland Tractor Company 141 Climax 51 Clyde Iron Works 206 Clydesdale 72 Coleman Truck Corporation 148 Consolidated Shipbuilding Company 134 Continental 34 Co-op Tractors 255 Corbitt 64 Cord 102 Cullen-Friestedt 174 Cunningham 115 Dart 57 Day-Elder Company 94 DeSoto 16 Diamond T 66 Divco Truck 235 Dodge 3 Doman & Marks 131 Douglas Truck Company 154 Duesenberg 59 Duplex Truck Company 62 Durant 85 Easthope Brothers Limited 250 Elco Works Electric Boat Company 201 Elgin Sweeper 260 Erd Motor Company 200 Erskine 63 Essex 21 Euclid Road Machinery Company 233 F. L. Buchanan Limited 117 Fageol Motor Truck Company 100 Fairbanks Morse Company 223 Fairmont Railway Manufacturing Inc. 185 Fate-Root Heath Company 92 Fay & Bower Company 216 Federal 82 Flint Motor Company 210 Flxible Company 257 Foote 48 Foote Brothers Gear & Machinery 187 Ford 2 Fordson Tractor 164 Four Wheel Drive 93 Franklin 20 Frisco Standard Engine Company 243 G.M.T.C. 23 Galion Iron Works 193 Gardner - Denver Company 198 Gardner Motor Car Company 166 Garford Corporation 136 Garford Motor Truck Company 186 General Excavator Company 65 Gifford-Wood Company 118 Gottfredson Truck 69 Graham-Paige 9 Gramm Motors Inc 176 Grass Premier Truck Company 194 Gravely Motor Plow & Cultivator 209 Gray 44 Hahn Motors Inc. 67 Hale Fire Pump Company 207 Hall Scott Motor Company 152 Hanley Engineering Service 246 Harnischfeger 83 Hendrickson 78 Henney Motors Company 114 Hercules 27 Hobart Brothers Company 261 Holt Tractor 91 Huber Tractor Company 199 Hudson 22 Hug Truck Company 179 Hupp 19 Indiana 30 Ingersoll Rand Company 184 International Harvester 32 International Motor Truck Company 24 J. G. Brill Company 212 Jarrett Motor & Finance Company 224 Jordan 76 Kaiser-Frazer Company 266 Kalamazoo Railway Supply 217 Kelly Springfield Truck Company 222 Kenworth Motor Truck Company 106 Kermath 42 Keystone Driller Company 189 Kiekhafer Aeromarine Manufacturing 268 Kimura 54 King-Zeitler Company 218 Kissel Car 119 Klieber Motor Truck Company 95 Knox Fire Truck 248 Koehring 60 Lange Motor Truck Company 160 Larrabee Motor Truck Company 203 LaSalle 11 Lathrop Engine Company 202 LeBlond-Schacht Truck Company 104 LeRoi Motor Company 130 Lima Locomotive Works 153 Lincoln 40 Link Belt Company 196 Linn Manufacturing Company (Tractors) 239 Locomobile Company of America 162 Lombard Traction Engine Company 237 London Branch 36 Lycoming 41 Maccar 38 Marmon 55 Massey-Harris Company 249 McCormick 103 McKeene Motor Car 259 McKiernan-Terry Corporation 234 Meteor Motor Car Company 139 Mianus Motor Company 230 Miller Motor Corporation 204 Milwaukee Locomotive Company 150 Minneapolis Moline 108 Minneapolis Steel & Machinery Company 145 Minneapolis Threshing Machine Company 155 Modern Marine Engines Works 208 Moon Motor Car Company 191 Moreland Truck Company 240 Myers-Sherman Company 168 Nash 8 Nelson LeMoon 120 New England Truck Company 125 New York Yacht Launch & Engine 197 Northwest Crane & Northwest Engines 84 Northwestern Motor Company 101 Oakland 80 OK Clutch & Machinery Company 182 Oldsmobile 5 Orton Crane & Shovel Company 167 Osgood 77 Oshkosh Motor Truck Company 90 Oswald Machinery Company 127 Packard 10 Palmer Brothers Engines Inc 140 Paris Branch 37 Parsons Company 74 Patriot Manufacturing Company 126 Peerless 58 Peerless Marine Motor Corporation 225 Peter Pirsch & Sons Company 221 Pierce-Arrow 18 Plymouth 15 Pontiac 13 Red Wing 46 Regal 47 Reiland & Bree Truck Company 177 Relay Motor Truck Company 178 Reo 12 Republic Motor Truck Company 144 Riise 50 Roberts 45 Rock Island Plow 105 Rockne 53 Ross Carrier Company 137 S.K. F. Industries 214 Sanford Motor Truck Company 87 Sayers & Scoville Company 156 Schramm Incorporated 33 Scripps 43 Seagrave Corporation 97 Skagit S & I Works 86 Speeder Machinery Company 232 Standard 1 Standard Gas Engine Company 111 Standard Motor Construction Company 138 Star 98 Star Drilling Machine Company 157 Star Marine Engine Works 231 Stearns Motors Manufacturing Company 110 Sterling Engine Company 122 Sterling Motor Truck Company 113 Stewart 28 Stover Engine Company 256 Studebaker 6 Stutz 56 Superior Coach Company 263 Superior Trailer Manufacturing 173 Szekele Engineering Corporation 163 T. L. Smith Company 159 Thew Shovel 88 Thompson Machine Works 180 Titan Truck Company 151 Twin Coach Company 109 United Parcel Service Company 236 Universal 39 Universal Crane Company 165 Van Blerck 183 Vaughan Motor Company 133 Velie Motor Car Company 211 Viking 52 Vulcan Iron Works 124 Walter Motor Truck Company 181 Ward LaFrance 135 Warmington Company 195 Waukesha 26 Weber Engine Company 251 Wellman Seaver Morgan Company 143 Western Austin Company 220 Westinghouse Electric & Manufacturing 142 Whippet 79 Whitcomb Locomotive Company 147 White 29 Wichita Falls Manufacturing Company 112 Willys-Knight 96 Winton Light Plant 215 Wisconsin 25 Woolery Machine Company 242 Wright Machine Company 171
  18. Obviously - a man who has been on a Snipe hunt, in this case a Super Snipe. Jon.
  19. Have you ever been on a Snipe Hunt? Jon
  20. Brian - no longer restore carbs due to the demand for the rebuilding kits we make, but give me a call 573-392-7378 (9-4 Mon-Tues central time) and will offer, if you wish, some pointers on the tube and the carb. That Rochester, or the original Carter 4-barrel, Pontiac used both, are great carbs. Jon.
  21. There was originally a steel tube pressed into the exhaust port of the intake manifold, more or less horizontally, which connected to a small chamber on the passenger side. A steel tube then connected this chamber to the choke housing on the carburetor. There is a small internal vacuum passage inside the carburetor has causes the choke housing to have a slight vacuum. This vacuum then causes heated air to be drawn through the tube to operate the choke. To slow the heated air, there was originally a twisted piece of metal, similar to an ancient piece of barb wire without the barb. You can see a piece of the original twisted metal in your picture. The manifold may be heated, and the old steel tube driven out, and replaced with a new steel tube. When we were restoring tripower manifolds, we used stainless, but no longer have any inventory of the stainless. Plain steel normally is good for maybe 30 years. The twisted tube may be fabricated from a piece of flat steel. Don't know if the parts are available reproduction, as they are so easy to fabricate, but you might try Kelsey Pontiac Parts in Iowa Falls, Iowa. Jon.
  22. These numbers cannot easily (if at all) be decoded. They are casting numbers for "blank" castings, prior to the casting being machined. The best example I can give would be throttle bodies from Rochester 2-barrel carburetors for 1957 Pontiac tripower. Front - no idle screws, 1/8 inch pipe vacuum port Center - idle screws, 1/8 inch pipe vacuum port Rear - idle screws, no vacuum port ALL have the same casting number. I am unaware of any EX-32 other than the supercharged Auburn that use 1 3/8 venturii. However I have not checked the prints on all of the EX-32's. Jon.
  23. I generally use steel, as I have the tools to work it. Historically: aluminum, brass, copper, and steel have all been used; and copper a LOT later than some would think. Oldsmobile was still using copper in 1966 on their performance models. Jon.
  24. Not until you do the compression test, and find that all cylinders serviced by the side of the carburetor with the unresponsive screw have decent compression. This comment from the guy that makes and sells carburetor repair kits! Jon.
  25. Curti - not a "one size fits all" answer. Referring to USA-built Strombergs: Many have the internal venturi size cast into the bowl casting. Some have the main metering jet I.D. stamped into the casting. Most will have the part number for the BLANK CASTING cast into the casting. This is not a part number most will find anywhere. It is an internal number for a casting prior to machining. Beginning about 1935, Stromberg stamped the "code identification number" of the carburetor into one of the castings. From my website: "Stromberg The following applies to Stromberg-USA carburetors, and does not apply to Stromberg carburetors produced elsewhere: Stromberg began stamping a ‘code’ number on virtually all O.E. (original equipment) carburetors beginning in 1935 up through the end of production in 1974. Most of the carburetors produced in the late 1930’s were stamped on the throttle body. Others were stamped on the airhorn. After 1940 this trend was reversed, and most carburetors were stamped on the top surface of the airhorn along one of the edges. Replacement carburetors produced during this period were generally identified by tag only (although a few replacements were stamped). The stamped ‘code’ is in the format ‘ccc-nnne’ where ccc is a one, two, or three digit code representing the company for which the carburetor was produced (ie 2=Ford, 4=Chrysler, 7=Buick, etc.); nnn is a one, two, or three digit number representing the next sequential number of carburetor sold to the company in ‘ccc’; and e is a letter (if present) representing the engineering change status of the carburetor. An example would be 7-69A which is decoded as 7 (Buick); 69 (the sixty-ninth type of carburetor sold to Buick – this one fits a 40 series in 1949); and ‘A’ meaning one engineering change to the original specifications. A second change would be 7-69B. Stromberg used both rectangular (held in place by a screw) and round (riveted in place) tags during this period, on those units which were tagged. Stromberg carburetors produced prior to 1935 can easily be identified as to type, as it is cast onto the carburetor; however complete identification is impossible unless one has prior knowledge of the carburetor being identified; and can be quite difficult and time consuming for even someone with the original prints." Jon.