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Shop Rat

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  1. As promised here is the reply that Eric "Rick" Marsh sent to me. "Hello Susan, I think our guideline is straight forward. I’d get down on one knee (or two in my case) and get the size / type off the side of the tire. I’d then pull the owner’s manual out of the glove box. If the size / type matched, we’re good to go in AACA. Brand is not specified by us or (generally) the automobile manufacturer. If his Vogue tires are that old, he should remove them immediately. Thanks, Rick Marsh"
  2. Steve, I apologize if you feel that I stepped on your toes. But you did not state from the get go that your answer came from Eric "Rick" Marsh. That would have been helpful to know from the start. And I do pay attention in every class that I go to. And I take notes. And nowhere have I heard that the wording was changed. I continue to hear that the standard is "as it could have come from the factory". So maybe, just maybe, the rule is so ingrained in the instructor that they are still giving out the same advice.
  3. http://www.gocomics.com/pluggers/2014/01/21#.Ut8LIlUo7IU
  4. I sent a copy of all of the postings from the one I put up last night to the top to the AACA recognized resident expert on tires, Eric "Rick" Marsh. He is the primary instructor for the Tire CJE. When I hear back from him, and I am sure that I will as he always does, I will post his reply. What Bill and I, and I know many others will agree with, is that we have been told, "As the vehicle could have come from the factory". Not "As it could have come from the dealer". That has been addressed on numerous occasions buy people like Hulon McCraw who absolutely has stated that "We don't award points for items that are wrong just because they are there". ie. An incorrect steering wheel for the year, make and model of vehicle it is on, it is deducted for as if doesn't exist. The dealer might very well have installed (understanding please if it was possible to do so) a steering wheel from a 1958 Impala (high end version) on a 1958 Del Ray (low end version) if the customer was willing to pay the difference. That doesn't make it right because the dealer did it. It is still wrong. The car (assuming no one at the factory did it to be funny or mean ) would not have come from the factory that way. Hopefully Rick will get back to me soon and I will share what he has to say about this. I honestly want to help Matt Harwood's friend get the correct answer to his question, whatever that correct answer may be. To not do so would be irresponsible.
  5. PLEASE NOTE, THESE ARE THE TIRE RULES ACCORDING TO THE 2013 JUDING MANUAL. THE 2014 MANUAL HAS NOT BEEN POSTED YET. <dir><dir>9. Prior to 1915, tires must be matched in pairs (front and rear), but spares need not match anything on the vehicle except each other. (If there’s more than one size spare, they will naturally differ.) 10. The following items are accepted for judging without penalty under the "grandfather clause", due to their initial acceptance in the beginning of the judging program . <dir>a. Whitewall tires, must be proper size designation and proper style. b. 1941 Last use of double whitewall tires. </dir>11. Tires on all vehicles must be as specified by the manufacturer. Specific brand is unimportant. They must be nearest the correct size, if the correct size is not available. Tubeless tires with a tube will be allowed without removing the wording "tubeless" on vehicles that did not come with tubeless tires. Tubeless tires were introduced in 1955 for cars and light trucks and in 1956 for heavy trucks. 12. The following identifies the first year of tire sizing for the various designations. <dir>Tire Documentation </dir>Owners not able to find a correct replacement tire should send a letter to the VP of Class Judging indicating the specific size of the correct tire and that at least two tire manufacturers have been contacted and the correct tire is not available. Tires one size larger or smaller are acceptable. A letter from the VP of Class Judging is the ONLY AACA ACCEPTED documentation regarding a vehicles substitute tires. Any letter issued by the VP of Class Judging should be shown to the Team Captain at the time of vehicle judging. IT IS IMPERATIVE THAT THE TEAM CAPTAIN ASK FOR DOCUMENTATION FOR ANY TIRE THAT IS QUESTIONED BY THE CHASSIS JUDGE OR DOES NOT MEET THE FIRST YEAR OF MANUFACTURE GUIDELINES LISTED BELOW. Some manufacturers offered a radial tire - for specific vehicle(s) - as a factory authorized option to the standard issue ply tire. The use of red line radials on a vehicle should be accompanied with documentation. It is advisable to seek documentation from the vehicle owner when a tire size or type is in question. This is especially so in cases of limited production, specialty vehicles, and foreign made vehicles. <dir>a. LETTER SIZE tires, ie G78-15, GR78-14, etc 1967. b. RADIALS, ie 185R14, 175R13, etc. Domestic Cars. (Factory documentation is required for any vehicle with radial tires prior to the years listed below.) Some domestic manufacturers offered these tires as early as 1967, such as Buick and Oldsmobile. It is possible that others may have offered them as well. BEFORE taking any deductions, the Team Captain will ask the owner for documentation. (Note: European built vehicles can be much earlier) (Japanese vehicles 1967, possibly earlier). c. LOW PROFILE METRIC RADIALS, ie P195/70R13, P195/70VR14 Domestic Cars as early as 1976. European cars 1969*, Japanese cars 1975* * Also refer to above Note when judging foreign made vehicles. </dir>13. Valve stems must be metal prior to 1930 and must be the same as originally supplied on the vehicle. Documentation may be required. Fords will have metal valve stems through 1934. Rubber valve stems may be used on any vehicle, prior to 1935, that was originally equipped with metal stems, if completely covered with authentic valve cover, atop a retainer nut fastened to the rim. In all cases, it must appear as original equipment. 14. Plastic valve caps will receive a one point each deduction if used on any vehicle prior to 1951. “Red Crown” valve caps are not accepted on any vehicle. Red plastic valve caps (not “Red Crown”) will be accepted on Whizzer motorbikes. </dir></dir>15. Wheel weights will be considered a safety item; therefore there will be no deduction for wheel weights if installed in a workmanlike manner. They may be painted. There is a maximum deduction per tire. And that can only be taken if the item cannot be used for it's intended purpose (such as the tire is bald and thereby unsafe for use), missing or incorrect (wrong size, wrong style, etc.) Specific brand does not matter. So even if it came from the factory with Goodyear tires on it, the owner can put Firestone brand on it as long as the size and style are correct.
  6. Check with Dennis Carpenter Ford Restoration Parts. You can follow this link and request a free catalogue. http://dennis-carpenter.com/dennis-carpenter-car-parts-catalog/p/CarPartsCatalog/
  7. We had just spent time with Charlotte, her son David and her "extra son" Louis this year at Hershey. Her husband and her son were long time vendors at the Hershey Meet. I am sure that some of you probably purchased Model T items from them over the years. Her son and his best friend Louis were at the booth this year as was Charlotte. We had a great time when we all went out to dinner together. She mentioned that with her declining health and her age that it would probably be her last trip to Hershey. Sadly she was right but in a way we didn't expect. She missed her husband Harry terribly. He died quite a few years ago from cancer. Rest in peace Charlotte Miller. You will be missed by your family and friends you left behind today.
  8. My husband had a great suggestion about the forms which I sent on to Hulon. He thinks it is a good idea, but is not confident that many of the judges would want to switch to it. He said that many of the forms are not done the way they are supposed to be done as it is. Bill's idea was to put vertical or slightly slanted line to make the one large space into smaller but equal sized spaces on lines where there is more than one component. Then the judge would only have to put the number of the deduction in the space that matches the component. So using Hulon's example of Tape /Tubing / Terminals on the Engine judging sheet, it would be 2 / 0 / 1 for Tape 2 Tubing 0 and Terminals 1. Rather than 2TA 1TE. Seems simple and straightforward. And truthfully the 2TA 1TE is not new info. It has been going on for a year or two at least. But judges are not doing it. That is why he went to the effort to send the letter out. And the circling the component on the vehicle's judging sheet is not new either. Those two things go hand in hand. Judges honestly need to be listening to the instructions at each meet rather than talking. Things can and do change from one meet to the next. But if people are chatting and not listening it does two things: they don't know the changes and they can be loud enough (as the people at the table across from where our team was sitting at Hershey were) making it impossible for others that want to listen to be able to hear.
  9. "Shop Rat" or Susan either one is fine. Wayne Burgess calls me "Shop".
  10. OOPS!!! My bad. The two door hardtop was the 1963 Falcon we had. Too many years have passed since Bill sold the Biscayne and I haven't seen a photo of it in as many years. Sorry about that. I corrected it above.
  11. Our first antique vehicle was a 1958 Chevy Biscayne, two door. We added lap belts before we started driving it (except Bill bringing it home the day we bought it) to it so that we at least had those. His son lived with us and was twelve at the time. He of course wanted to ride in the Chevy on the ride home, but we wouldn't let him until the belts had been installed. This hits home since we had a very similar vehicle and Bill is also sixty-nine.
  12. Matt, this is an old thread that got added onto recently.
  13. He sent me a PM and my advice to him was to bring the state issued instructions that the temporary license must be applied as he described and to show that to the Team Captain as his documentation.
  14. Just ran across a case of this at the Hershey Meet. It was a four headlight vehicle. It had: 1 - GE, 2 - 101 (that was the only designation, no brand name, so they matched each other) and 1 - General Electric. The vehicle got credit for having two matching headlights, the ones with 101 at the top of the lens. It received the maximum deduction (which is now the rule rather than the old rule of a 1 point deduction for any non-matching headlight) for the two that did not match. Also, GE is one era and General Electric is another era....so they don't match each other. I asked my Team Captain to discuss this with the owners because otherwise the car was amazing and I didn't want that max deduction to keep them from getting the next level of award, which they had said they want to take it to the next Grand National Meet. She went over to talk to them and I guess they wanted to hear it from me. So my T. C. called me over to explain in detail the situation. My first comment to them was, "Please understand, Team Captains and judges are honestly not out to get owners. We are here to help and educate owners when we find issues like this." I wanted to put them at ease about what I was going to tell them. At first they were both a bit puzzled. But then I showed them each headlight and explained what I wrote above about how they don't match. Then they "got it" and said by the next Meet the headlights would match. I explained also that the pattern in the glass for high beams will match and the pattern in the glass for low beams will match in four headlight vehicles. The pattern dictates where the light will shine on the road as well as how they are adjusted. Also, brand does not matter. I.E., If a vehicle came with T-3 headlights it no longer has to have T-3 headlights. As long as the brand and era within the brand matches there will not be a deduction.
  15. I agree, to a degree, about splitting the team. But it won't work in every case. I was the Team Captain at the Carlisle Meet and that was the first time I had that happen. As I understood it from Hulon McCraw it was only the second time they had tried it. In my case I was very lucky, I had two guys that had judged for me before and each of them had been a Team Captain a few times and both were in the program to be Certified Team Captains. I knew they could be trusted on their own to evaluate the Preservation vehicles. And because they had been Team Captains and had gone to the Team Captain CJE each year they knew the policies, procedures and etiquette to talk to the vehicle owner/owners if that was needed. The other two folks I had never judged with before and they were much newer to judging. When I talked to Hulon after the Meet he agreed with my suggestion that if they are going to do this at Meets where they have enough people, they need to make sure they have at least two people that have been a Team Captain at least twice on the team. One to be the main T. C. and one to be the "Deputy" T. C. of the Pres. team. The AACA does not need the headaches, and trust me Hulon does not want the calls after a Meet, if rookies are sent out alone to deal with the owner/owners. He told me that it is up to the discretion of the T. C. as to if they feel confident in splitting the team. If they don't, then they don't have to.
  16. Marty Roth is a good guy. I have known him for several years now. Anyone that he would send to help would also be a good person.
  17. We booked our campsite for next year at the new campground before we left.
  18. As Steve mentioned, Ed Herrmann. I have seen him several times but not in the last couple or three years. He and about four or five of his friends all wore pink hats with different symbols/letters on them in a silvery gray thread. His had a HUGE D on it from the commercials he had done where he said he was a "Big Dufus". One had a silver star on his hat because he was a General. I nicknamed them "The Pepto Bismol Posse" because that was the color of the hats. One day I was talking to them and told them what I had nicknamed them and they loved it. One of the guys liked the name so much he used it in a video he did and he sent me a copy of it. West knows all of those guys. He wrote about them and referred to the name I gave them in the article.
  19. We arrived in the Hershey area on Sunday as usual. We have switched to a newer, better campground in the Fort Indiantown area. Very pleased with that. Better campground for less money. Trade-off was about fifteen minutes extra time to get there. Well worth the extra time. Wednesday Bill, Rodger (the friend that also judges and stays with us at AACA Meets) and I headed into the flea market and had a very pleasant day. Bill and Rodger went into the flea market areas on Thursday but I didn't go. I had had a sinus infection earlier the week before and was just beginning to feel better and didn't want to risk getting sick again so I stayed at the camper. None of us went into the flea market fields on Friday. We went out into the surrounding areas to see the sights. As well as going to the AACA Museum. Bill and I didn't realize that Rodger had never been to it. He was very impressed and pleased with his visit to it. Being able to visit "for free" with our membership cards is a very nice perk of being a member. I guess we will have to start heading into the flea market fields on Tuesday if we hope to find any parts. We haven't found anything for any of our three antique vehicles for quite a few years. And it seems that those that do....went on Tuesday. I think they need to make opening day Tuesday official, or to be fair to all, keep it closed until Wednesday and then let everyone have an equal chance. We had heard an announcement that it didn't open until Wednesday and it sounded by the person's voice inflection that they meant "open WEDNESDAY" as if to discourage early bird shoppers which is what has gone on for years. As Peter J. Heizmann stated the show field is an old golf course and those are built to drain quickly. And it did. The rain stopped in about late afternoon Friday and the breeze blew and the surface was actually pretty dry by the time the vehicles entered the field. Had the rain continued through Friday and into Saturday it might have been a different story. But we lucked out. Sadly there were a number of no shows but it is always up to the owners as to what to do. Hope for better weather next year. Was happy to see and visit with folks like Fran Shore, Joe Vacini, Dave and Karen Berg (Karen was my Team Captain), Pat Thorpe and his dad, David Devine, Rick Marsh, Marty Roth, Wayne Burgess, Steve Moskowitz and others.
  20. In the case of tires, color, options, etc., factory documentation is the key to showing the Team Captain (and the judging team) that what you have is correct. Articles in automobile themed magazines are not accepted because they are not published by the factory. And documentation is the burden of the owner not the Team Captain or the judging team. Team Captains can accept or reject the personal opinion of the owner at their discretion.
  21. Loud music is painful for those with hearing aids and more and more older folks are having to wear them. JV Puleo brings up the issue of different genres of music. People that believe that if a vehicle isn't a Model T it isn't an antique vehicle will not like the music from the '80s that now fits with the newest groups of vehicles accepted by the AACA for their Meets.
  22. It sounds like you have the correct frame of mind about the music and the roll it plays in car shows/cruise-ins. It needs to be in the background. People come to talk to their friends and make new friends with similar interests. Many years ago our now defunct Region had a local car show but used the AACA rules for judging. We lived to regret allowing a local street rod club to have their show in conjunction with our show. I was running the music at our show. I only turned the volume up to make announcements. They on the other hand had the very most obnoxious DJ that I have ever encountered. I walked over and very nicely asked him to turn their system down as our folks couldn't hear the announcements that I had to make. The guy laughed and cranked up the volume as I walked away. I hope that someday he has someone treat him as rudely as he treated me and see how he likes it.
  23. Sorry folks but there won't be a list this year. We were gone for three weeks out west, were home for a week but had to do a quick turn around to go to the races at Bristol. While we were out west several items on our new 2013 5th-wheel camper trailer broke or stopped working correctly. So we had to unload a bunch of stuff so that the dealership could work on it. Not everything is fixed even now. We went and picked the trailer up today to re-load it for the Hershey trip. I just am not up to all the work it takes to do the list. And last year not that many people, compared to years past, posted their info. Hopefully next year without the trip west I will have the time and energy to do the list for 2014. See you folks there.
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