Shop Rat
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Posts posted by Shop Rat
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Benjamin j, that is adorable. I had wondered in the first photo what the big box was in the back. ICE CREAM!!! Very cute idea.
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That is why I put this: Think of what you could do with a "vintage" Cozy Coupe and some spare antique vehicle parts. :cool:
We are permitted to post a few funny photos to brighten a winter day/afternoon/evening. And that isn't promoting street rods. I would be among that last people here to do that. It was just for fun and to get people thinking about what fun they could have with some spare antique car parts.
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Think of what you could do with a "vintage" Cozy Coupe and some spare antique vehicle parts. :cool:
This one is titled "Pimp My Ride - Toddler Edition".
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1937hd45, FB can be used as an open or closed forum for your posts and photos. It depends on how you set your security settings. You can actually block some people from sending requests to you and/or block them from being able to see what you post, unless you post a reply on someone else's page that you happen to be mutual friends with. Then that person you banned can see it.
You can post photos and videos for others to see and enjoy. And pretty much anything you would like to share with others.
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jazzer3 and others that might not have heard about YakTrax. They fit over boots and shoes and are like tire chains for your feet. One of the other members here a few years ago had a driveway like that to their shop and they couldn't walk to it either. They got a pair of these and loved them.
One thing though, before you wear them, especially on ice, put them on and walk around on some non-polished cement/concrete or blacktop to rough the coils up some for added grip. People that didn't do that said that they slid on bare ice that didn't have any snow on it. Caution still needs to be used, but these will make a HUGE difference in where you can walk in winter conditions. Check for sales on them on-line. So stores now carry them in stock. There are models of them that are for rougher uses and they have a strap to hold them on. So far the regular ones I bought have been fine.
I did find that using the strength of my leg to help stretch them onto my shoe/boot is easier than trying to use my hands to stretch them. Just slip the toe of the YakTrax securely on your shoe/boot and then extend your leg to stretch the YakTraxs to put the back over the heel of the shoe/boot rather than pulling on them with your hands and arms.
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A year and a half ago we bought a new Cub Cadet yard mower/tractor. Bill searched the internet and found a good deal on a correct plow for it and three of the weights that go on the back. And we already had the cut down V-Bar chains that I bought years ago for my 1967 VW Beetle that I had at the time. The chains are on the back tires. That thing will move snow!! Last year I think Bill used the plow maybe once or twice at the most. This year he has used it to plow our street, which is a private street for the six houses up here, which also has a very steep and rough access road at least six times....so far. We are very pleased with the Cub Cadet.
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Jon37, exactly. The younger generation uses social media now. And now all ages have joined in. A friend of mine in the Dalmatian community now has her mother living with her. Which took her mom out of her neighborhood and away from her senior friends. She is in the process of teaching her mom to use Skype and FB to see her friends in addition to being able to talk with them on FB and share things like photos.
Social media isn't all bad. Yes, you should have your account closed to all but people you know or meet along the way and trust. There are ways to do that. And you don't post when you will be away from home, etc.
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Like 39BuickEight I wasn't aware that there was an AACA page on FB. But I will check it out.
FB isn't for everyone. I got into it about three and a half years ago to find friends that I grew up with and at some point they had moved away and we lost touch, or friends that I met along the way until the present time. So far I have found quite a few. It is a world wide meeting place.
It also is helpful with a new activity that Bill and I have begun to enjoy, which is being foster people for dogs that were in a shelter and need to be out for at least two weeks to then go to a rescue. They then get on a transport of some kind, vehicle or even a free plane ride to the rescue group that paid to pull them from local animal shelters. And then on to their new family that has adopted them from out of state. We also help with the transports of dogs that are making their way through our area to get from point A to point B.
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DNC, just to interject, if you plan to show the car in any regular class judging (as in not DPC) at any AACA National Meets, make sure and put correct original style headlights back into your car before the Meet. Brand doesn't matter. But all of them should match within the brand and era. So don't mix something like General Electric headlights with GE headlights. Same brand but different eras within the brand. Each non-matching headlight, as of last year, will cost you all three of the points for each headlight. So a four headlight vehicle could lose as many as nine points. One would be considered correct.
Halogen headlights/lamps in a vehicle that they were not a factory authorized option for will cost all three points per headlight. None will be considered correct.
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Shop Rat,
For the record let me clarify something. I do NOT question your loyalty and dedication to the old car hobby, the AACA or the judging process as it is obvious that you are passionate about this. I apologize if my comments came across that way. My statement about not reading the manual yearly is more directed at all judges - I would hope they would read it through each year so they are at their best when they step onto the show field.
I do agree that some kind of markings should be used for changes - in our basketball rules book they have a section up front each year that highlights any changes for the year. Makes it easier for me to know what has changed as I am reading through refreshing myself of the rules.
Again, apologize if my comments came across as critical of your dedication to the hobby. You are undertaking a job I wouldn't want and it is appreciated. I am sure like basketball when folks blame the officials, when someone doesn't get the award they think they deserve at a show, I am sure they often blame the judges instead of accepting the possibility that maybe their car isn't as good as they think. A thankless job at times.
Bob
Bob,
Your apology is sincerely appreciated and accepted.
I just want for the guidelines to go back to having the ** to denote changes or give a hand out with the changes listed. Not to be lazy and only read those. But to catch our eye and help us do our best when we are judging. I started the process to become a judge in September of 1990. I currently have 107 credits and have been a Certified Team Captain for a few years. I have been a Deputy Chief judge about two or three times before they stopped having those. Deputy Chiefs were over two or three judging teams and their job was to be like an arbitrator and to oversee the Team Captains.
The upside of being a judge that long is that after going to many schools and CJE courses and being a field judge and a Team Captain the "rules" get stuck in your brain. You might not remember the guidelines chapter and verse but you know the important things that we all should know. Many of us highlight items in the book to make them easier to find.
The downside to knowing the guidelines that well is when a change is made, and it might be a subtle change that could be easy to miss, you need to retrain your brain to remember the new rules.
For years the deduction per non-matching headlight was only 1 point. As of last year it is now the full 3 points. No ** in the book to indicate the change. Not mentioned in judging school. I just happened to be comparing the old judging sheet to the new one we were given in class and caught it.
I agree with you, all judges should read the new guidelines. But marking the changes would be helpful.
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Hope they can find someone that promotes "original factory cars" not "cars that are made up the way we want them". I like this club very much
and hope they can get back on the correct track. Time will tell. Larry
Larry, I went and read the reworded part. It kind of got taken out of context and looked like what you are talking about. Reading it in context that is not what they are doing. Compared with the old wording it includes the statement that the items added must be authorized by the factory. It just rewords it to say that the vehicles need to be as they could have been delivered by the dealer with factory authorized options for the year make and model the items were put on. Not as it came to the dealer from the factory.
This is a case where only putting part of the information was misleading.
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Thanks Shop Rat,
I didn't realize that. Even though my car has received it's Senior Grand National I thought that shurely it must have some points deductions. Have some time this winter and thought I could correct some of them. I can see your point,that would be better to help those that are working towards a certain award.
Thanks
Walker
Thanks for understanding Walker. I am sure that whomever is taking over the reins will appreciate your consideration. You can pretty much judge your own vehicles.
Print off a copy of the judging sheet that is in the 2014 Official Judging Guidelines and take it and look over each of the components listed under each category of Exterior, Interior, Engine and Chassis. The only time that all of the points listed for each component listed can be taken off is when it is missing, not able to be used for it's intended purpose or is incorrect for the year, make and model of the vehicle being judged. Everything else is in the Excellent/Perfect, Good, Fair, Poor, Missing/Can't Be Used/Incorrect mode. If only three points can be taken off then it is down to Excellent/Perfect, Less than perfect but is not missing/can still be used and is correct for the year, make and model you are looking at.
Pay attention to the markings like *, **, circled numbers and look at the legend at the bottom to find out what those marks mean to a judge.
Be honest with yourself about the condition and authenticity of the vehicle. It is okay for you to read the judging guidelines and come back and ask questions about anything that isn't clear to you. Someone will help you.
It really is that easy.
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Additionally, the request is honestly supposed to be limited to those that did not receive the award they were seeking. Can you imagine the time it would take for the VP of Class Judging to respond if everyone, and yes I know that is unlikely, asked for a highlighted copy of their judging sheet? He already gets quite a few from each Meet.
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.....As far as reading the judging manual--Psshaw--- Shop Rat - You are totally right about the ** marks and removing them showed a foolish misunderstanding for human brain patterns. The manual and the critical key phrases are repeated and reread often by judges - most can quote certain critical parts and all are familiar with the words like they are a song from high school. because of this we (the humans) relate similar phrases to our initial reference point. This means that when a small change is made to a document that the reader is very familiar with, it takes an impressive awareness to overcome brain wiring and register the small change as its being read. The punctuation was a flag to draw awareness of the reader to the change, to act with the common methodology of the brain to alert the reader to pay attention and relearn accepted facts. It's absence doesn't increase the chances of absorbing the new information, it decreases it and was a foolhardy decision by someone who probably is actually smart and aware enough to catch changes like this. I (and most of the world) do not possess this level of intellect and need all the warning flags I can get. I read the new and current manual before and after judging school and know that I have missed things. This whole frenzy of judges responsibility seems to come from the comment that Shop Rat made about the now famously absent "**" marks. She was pretty much jumped on and that is just cruel and ignorant. Of all the people in the car hobby to jump about their dedication as a judge?? Really? Read through the judging section posts since there has been a judging section and you will see that Susan is ALWAYS questioning, interpreting, and growing as a judge and is extremely dedicated to the craft and know one knows that book as well as she does. OK, there was a little confusion with the whole vogue tire question but only because of her dedication, not because she was apathetic or careless.
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Thank you Sam. While I never had the opportunity to judge with your late father Ron, I certainly knew him and he knew me. And I saw the keen look in his eye when it came to judging, and understood the gravity of trying our best to "do it right". We all make mistakes. We are after all human. But like so many others I do try to help where I can. I am not one bit shy about asking those that are true experts, like Eric "Rick" Marsh, for their help to help others.
It is a proven fact that our brain can fill in even whole words that are missing in a sentence. How many have seen that long written piece where only the first and last letters of words are correct and you can still read them like they are spelled correctly with no problem? The brain is a funny thing that way. It can also "read" things that aren't there and fill in a wrong word despite the word being spelled correctly and it totally changes the meaning.
Sometimes with hilarious results. 
I think they need to put the ** back in the guidelines to help judges see, remember and retain the changes.
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"We do have one spot left, but's it's kind of difficult to get in and out of. We'll have someone help you park your camper."
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I have located an invoice through one of our "'54 Ford Club of America" members and it specifically shows that tubeless tires were available for the '54 Ford. Thus, it would seem that the wording should be changed to "1954" rather than the "1955" as listed in the manual. I have approached several of the "powers that be" and was told it was '55. Perhaps this will make it clear so we don't have to "have documentation".
Thank you AJFord54 for sharing that documentation. I hope that you will send a hard copy of that to the Judging Committee and ask that they amend the rules to reflect this. I made a copy of it for myself so that I don't forget this.
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This proves it.
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For the record, I tried it in 1995 at the Punta Gorda National Meet - I didnt care too much for it to be honest. Maybe it was the Team Captain I had for that first apprenticeship team but he had an attitude of superiority that I didn't care for and he pointed out something on a Model A that he said was incorrect and I know for a fact was not and when I suggested that he might want to verify that it was incorrect, he talked to me like I was an idiot and he was the "know-it-all expert". (I had read the Model A Restorer's Manual from cover to cover several times preparing my car for judging so I knew the Model A originality extremely well and I had the manual with me in my motorhome and went back and verified that he was incorrect. Part of me wanted to take the manual and find him to prove he was wrong but I don't operate that way so I just let it go and decided never to try the judging process again.
Needless to say, I didn't feel very good about the AACA Judging process that day and was worried if my car would get it's First Junior (which fortunately it did, as well as Senior later in the year and nominated for a National Award also). That experience has caused me to have a somewhat negative opinion of AACA Judging ever since.
Bob
And that Bob is horrible that you were treated that way. And the person that did that was NOT a good steward of this club and the judging process. There is not a single one of us that know everything about every vehicle. As Wayne stated this is a team effort. We help each other to get the job done the best way possible. There are across the board recognized true experts in certain fields of the hobby. But none of the ones I know act like what you are talking about. They stand there and share what they know with anyone willing to learn. And they don't make the pupils feel stupid.
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Thank you Susan. I have always valued your opinions. I do not consider myself an expert judge as yourself, but when I am with an AACA Judging Team on the field, I know each of us does our upmost to make sure we judge the best that we can. And, yes, the word is TEAM. As with most areas of the AACA, we all work together to properly educate each other to preform a better job. We're not perfect, but we certainly do the best that we can.
Like you said, I also know that people on the outside will never understand how our judging system works if they do not try it.
Thanks again,
Wayne
Thank you very much Wayne. But I am by no means an expert judge. I learn something new every time I judge from the classes, CJEs and the people I judge with. I try to share what I have learned with anyone willing to learn as well. And I have judged for and with some of the best in the judging side of this hobby, two of whom are now past Presidents of the National club. Sadly many of them are fading from sight when it comes to sharing what they know. They just aren't up to it anymore. Or have done this for years and now want to do something else while hopefully there is still time in their lives. Every one of us that learned the right way to do this from them are obligated, in my mind, to do the same for the next group coming in.
I have always encouraged everyone to go to the judging schools and some CJEs even if they decide not to judge to understand from this side how we do what we do and why we do it that way. I will say it until I can't anymore: Yes, the scores are a secret that we never share. But the judging process is not a secret handshake society. Everyone is welcome to learn it. But they have to be willing to give up a bit of their time to do so.
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First I want to clarify for Bob Hill that since we were talking about judging that was the aspect of the antique vehicle hobby I was talking about, judging. If there aren't judges then the competition side of the hobby will die on the vine. No judges = Cruise-in
And I don't know any judges that judge just to get "patches". We don't get patches. But even if we did, that isn't what this side of the hobby is about. We are there to serve the owners. Are there folks that really shouldn't be judging? From time to time yes. But it is part of the Team Captain's job to tell the truth about the performance of the team members to the folks in Judges Administration when we hand in our Judging Team Evaluation sheet. A number of years ago I had no choice but to recommend that a judge not judge again until they were re-schooled on the proper protocols, judging etiquette, etc. Past President Dave Berg came walking out of the Admin. area and he stopped me and asked me about the comments I had made about this person. He said to me, "The minute I saw that you were the Team Captain I knew the comments were true". I explained to him why I wrote what I did. He thanked me for my time and told me, "They will not be back on the judging field until I feel they can do the job properly". That person was re-trained and the last time I saw them they had achieved their "Certified Team Captain" pin.
And it isn't about not wanting to read the guidelines. I just want them to go back to putting the ** beside of the changes. Or give us a hand-out that we can keep in with our manuals to jog our memories. As I said, the book is now 120 numbered pages and a few that aren't numbered. Sometimes things happen to all of us that shorten the time we though we had to do something. Having that info. would take some stress off of someone incase they ran short on time. It doesn't make anyone lazy or unworthy of judging.
Before people "judge" something they have never done, and admit they don't want to do, come try it and then see what you think.
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Susan: You hit the nail of the head; nice response. There is a famous saying that applies to the AACA Judging Guide made by a lady from CA. It is:
"We got to pass this to see what's in it"!! I've come to the conclusion that the "Powers of Be" with this club want absolutely no input from the members or
the judges. It's their way or the highway reguardless of common sense. Larry
Thank you very much Larry.
I am a very fair minded person. And a "logical thinker". I just don't see the point in making the judging process harder on the judges by basically demanding that we read the guidelines cover to cover when there may be only a few changes. We don't just blow it off and not bother to remember what we have been taught. I take notes in the judging schools. I carry a small notebook in my judging fanny pack. The notebook has tabs so that it is alphabetized so that I can find specific notes quickly if I need them. I put the date of the school and who the teacher was.
We don't get paid to do this. In fact it costs us a lot of money no matter how we get there or where we stay. Many, like we did when we worked, use precious vacation time to do this for the good of the club. We stand in the wind, rain, heat, mud and even snow sometimes to perform our duties to the best of our training and abilities. For a credit and a chip that is usually now a piece of aluminum with a brass colored finish. They used to be solid brass.
We do this because we love it. We do it because if we don't this hobby will die on the vine.
We educate owners about this side of hobby to help them if they need it to go higher in the show levels. At Hershey I helped a couple understand about their mismatched headlights. When I started they didn't have a clue. When I was done they both "got it" and were grateful I had taken my time to help them. Their car was stunning. Why walk away and not help?
Regarding vehicles that have incorrect items and restorations. Some things can slip by when a team is made up of people that really aren't that knowledgeable about that particular vehicle or class. The people that put teams together try to put people where they know the most about certain vehicles or classes. But they can't always do that. And I know for fact that sometimes owners go home and change things between shows. How do I know that? :confused: Because I have had the occasion to judge vehicles twice in a row and they were different at the second show.
And like it was stated above, when someone goes to a low attendance show they can make the minimum and get a 1st Junior award. It happened to a friend of mine when he took his Rambler SC/Rambler to a show and he was the only one in the class. He knows why he got the award. -
Bob Hill,
Feel free to get involved. The judging system is only as good as the judges in it. Wrong!! They are only as good what the powers of be tell them
to do; don't blame the judges; blame whoever changed the judging guide. Larry
I agree.
And one thing that has happened over about the last year or two is that at one time all changes in wording that affected the rules or the "rules" used to be marked with ** and that denoted the changes. And also at one time we got a hand out sheet to look at and have handy to refresh our memories about those changes.
Last year at the Charlotte Meet the comment was made to me when I asked why the changes weren't marked like that and no hand out sheet was that they want every judge to read the new judging guidelines cover to cover before we judge. Nice idea. But when we have judges, and we do, that are still working and they come sliding into the school from their job and they attend the judge's breakfast early the next morning and then maybe a CJE and then go judge, that honestly doesn't leave much time for that. And for experienced judges that have been to school after school and CJE after CJE it is like reinventing the wheel to require us read that guidelines cover to cover the night before trying to "find" all the changes. And hope that we catch all of the subtle changes. They aren't always all talked about in judging school.
I just looked and the 2014 Judging Guidelines is now available to see on the main AACA Home page. It is now 120 pages. I really think they need to go back to marking the changes at least with the **. We can then go to those pages and over-line those changes to make sure we remember them and can find them quickly if we need to.
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I deleted one of my posts and added what Rick Marsh replied with. I know that brand doesn't matter in tires or headlights. I am the person that fought for three years to get the rule put in the guidelines after Dave Berg taught it in a school. But somehow it was left out of the book. Anyone that has ever judged with me or for me knows that I don't skirt the rule set forth by the Judging Guidelines. So when someone states that they think their friend knows his tires may look wrong, and another person says it is their opinion about the rules and a statement is posted about the mission of the club that I have never heard or seen, then I relied on what I had been taught for many years by people like Alice and C.C. Wheeler (founders of the DPC Class), Dave Berg, Joe Vicini, Fran Shore, Hulon McCraw, and even the famed Benny Bootle, from Sept. 1990 until now. And I consulted the recognized expert on the subject.
I do apologize for the confusion that created.
It has been a hard winter on most of us.
in General Discussion
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Nancy DeWitt, I love my YakTrax also. My niece had to crawl into the local YMCA in Easton, Pa. the other day because when she got there it would have been like Bambie on ice. I told her she needs a pair of YakTrax. Her comment was, "I have them, but they are at home". Hmmmm......I'm thinking she needs a pair in her car.