Packard8

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">for Twitch and Pack8 I dont agree with a couple of your points. I think the introduction of the Ultramatic, and the thinking behind it, was a significant part of why the public rejected Packard products to the point they had to go out of business for lack of sales. here's my thinking:<<<<<SNIP>>>> </div></div> Without thinking too hard I can shoot three gaping holes in your specious theory: 1. Buick Dynaflow 2. Chrysler Fluid Drive and 3. Chevrolet PowerGlide. The Dynaflow was even more of a monument to inefficiency than the Ultramatic as it had no TC lockup and also only ?one speed??.yet it did not deter millions of customers from purchasing them from 1948 thru the early 1960?s. Mopar sold tons of ?Fluid Drive? equipped cars from the late ?30s up until the intro of the TorqueFlyte in the mid ?50?s. Ever drive a 6 cylinder Plymouth with Fluid Drive?...I have and they make a Packard with Ultramatic seem like a neck-snapping muscle car dragster?yet ppl bought them by the boatload. Highest volume example would have to be the Chevy PowerGlide?millions & millions of happy customers inefficiently crawling from 0 to 60 in about an hour, but hey?.no clutch pedal so it was a ?modern automatic? (and very reliable, tho highly inefficient). As I recall it was also introduced in 1950 and lasted until 1964 or 65?

Good point Dave. I don't think any of us here plan on taking our collector cars to the drags on Sunday..... <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> Even in their day, big cars like Packards, Caddies, Chryslers, Lincolns & such were driven mostly by "mature" owners who were more interested in floating along at 75 MPH on the highway, not racing stoplight to stoplight down the main drag on Saturday night. That function was left to young punks like me driving 1953 Studebaker Lowey Coupes with Corvette motors and Packard OD trannies.... <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Truth be known, a 2008 Civic right out of the showroom will outrun, out-stop and out-corner just about anything from the 1950's, (and get 50 MPG doing it) But it's still just a Civic......

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Look all, all automatically shifted cars are slower then manual jobs but the buying public wanted them, and now, to not have to shift. It was considered THE luxury item of the day and came with faults - even Hydramatics and the slosh box Dynaflow in my 49 Roadmaster. So really the argument is moot - they are slow. S-L-O-W. How else do you want me to spell it? But the fellow wondering about reliability I too would have no issue buying one and probably will soon (next 3 years) because it was a Col. Vincent development if I am not mistaken. Old school Packard development of what amounted to the most important post war Packard engineered mechanical piece on the cars. V8 did not come along until close to the end, so Ultramatic had a much larger fingerprint on all post war production. I do find it interesting that there are several early Caribbeans with manual shifting. So to the point ONLY regarding reliability, I think these were good transmissions and there are still shops that can restore them/rebuild them so why have that sway you in a non purchase? </div></div> 3Jakes, Very good points! The early Ultramatics are practically bulletproof and have the edge over other contemporary automatics in that they were the only one with a direct drive lockup converter?..no slippage at highway speeds. Sherlok Are you looking at a particular car? If you have found one you like, don?t let an Ultramatic dissuade you. If it is good shape now chances are it will continue on for years. IF it does need work, it may be as simple as an adjustment, if not see the link I posted above. For a reasonable price they can be rebuilt BETTER than new. Best, John

Don?t let self proclaimed internet pontificators sway you unduly. If you believe some of the tripe proffered here you would scrap every postwar Packard ever made as junk. Listen to the people who actually own them now?. not in their foggy memories. The generally acknowledged Ultramatic Guru is Peter Fitch at Ultramaticdynamics.com. You can contact him and get the real scoop from the horse?s mouth. Last time I checked an updated rebuilt trans & TC with all the modern upgrades in materials and mods runs around $2000 and should provide all the trouble free miles you or I would ever put on a collector car. That being said, if I were offered identical cars with either an Ultra or 3 speed OD I?d probably opt for the stick shift. However, be aware that any 57+ year old driveline is prone to needing repair & maintenance (clutch, pressure plate, OD solenoid, gearbox etc).

The real key to painting is good prep and the experience of the guy with the spraygun. Several years ago I had a couple of Studes done at Miracle Auto Body in Alameda CA (a friend had a garage down the street and knew the guys). I would strip the car of all chrome, trim, lights, door handles etc?everything that would come off and then had a ?freelance? Mexican guy come in and do the body work on his off time Sat & Sun. When ready to paint, I would buy all the materials (paint, reducer, thinner, hardener etc?I liked DuPont Centari or Imron at the time?much better than the budget stuff they used at Miracle) and deliver the car to Miracle on Sat AM. They did the final prep and masking and the guy only charged $100 to shoot the car in their spray booth. This guy prolly averaged 2 or 3 sprays a day, 5 days a week and was a real artist with the skill to lay down a beautiful coat of enamel without any runs, drips or fisheye. They would leave the car in the booth until they reopened Mon AM, so there were no worries about dust etc as it cured. Anyway, I think the whole job on the ?51 Stude 4 door was under $700 for materials, bodywork , prep & spray (with me doing all the unskilled grunt work). That car placed highly at several shows and most ppl thought it was a 2 or 3 thousand $$ paint job (back in the 1980?s). Anyway?hope to see some pix soon! <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Sad fact is that the Toyota is prolly more "American" than most new cars & trucks from the Big Three. My new Dodge/Cummins One Ton Diesel Pickup was assembled in Mexico from parts sourced all over the globe..... <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Hey Randy, wanna start an ?office pool? on how long before the Village Troll gets the Bum?s Rush again? I thought he was gone after that insulting post to the new guy with the 1940 Darrin, but apparently not. PS the winner of the pool gets a used Oldsmobile rearend to cobble-up your Packard with?..LOL. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Don't laugh too much. I whipped the H*LL out of a 53 Oldsmobile Holiday with hydramatic driving our 1952 Mayfair. As a matter of fact the Olds didn't believe it and raced me back down the same stretch of road. At the bottom of the road where I pulled into the hotdog stand where we hung out, the Olds kept going and we didn't see him for more than a week. Summer of 58, McKeesport Pa. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> </div></div> Hey Randy...how many plug wires did you cross on the Olds while the guy wasn't looking? <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> Prolly a pretty close match re power to weight ratio...just have to start the Mayfair in "L" and let off and lock up around 28 MPH, hold that 'till about 50, shift to "D" "passing gear" and then to "D" direct and ya got him....maybe...LOL

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hey I resemble that remark. Actually the direct drive is a great seperator from the Dynaflow. At least a person should get slightly better gas mileage with an Ultramatic, and better use of highway power opportunities. </div></div> LOL...I had a '57 RM Riv with DynaBloat back in the day (wish I still did), and I think it burned about 2 gallons from a standing start to 30 MPH. The Packard lock-up TC was way ahead of its time...didn't reappear until when...the late 1980's? <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I agree with Owen...the original Turtlematics are pretty bulletproof and have direct drive above 30 MPH. Just don't plan on drag racing anyone (unless they have a Buick Dynaflo or Mopar Fluid drive....lol) <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Perhaps yours can be rebuilt locally. Look in the yellow pages under "auto electric". If not, Kanter is a good source. good luck & welcome

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">New plates in CA only get reissued if the registration lapses for more than 90 days </div></div> I believe that is correct except for the change from the yellow plates to black around 1956-57. I had a 49 Hudson that I bought from the original owner (with all the registration papers since new) that was switched from yellow to black plates. Also had a few pre 1957 Studes that originally had the yellow plates but had the black plate when I bought them....don't know the full history of those cars other than they were originally shipped to CA (from info on the build sheets) <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> If you want to see a crazy registration system look at the attached pic. These two cars are 40 years of age apart. You wouldn't guess it by looking at the license plates </div></div> That's cuz CA has gone thru 4 styles of plates since your Packard was new...the Yellow background with black numbers ('till 1956?), then the black plates with yellow letters/numbers (mid 70's?), then the blue plates with yellow numbers (1980's?) and now the white plates. In each case, the old plates had to be turned in and the new style reissued. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

I've also heard that Egge pistons "ain't what they used to be". The machine shop I use recently ordered a set for a DeSoto hemi and the shop owner said "they were junk and we sent them back". He ended up ordering from Ross. If you get some of the older stock they may be fine, but I hear the new stuff is made in Pakistan or India and the quality is suspect. Compared to the cost of machine work, build labor, installation etc I'd want to be sure. What kind of car?....if cost is a factor, you might also try Kanter...they seem pretty reasonable.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks, Jake and Wayne. Our 'Regular' in Denver is 87. I could easily add a tank of 92 every third tank just to be sure. My son felt that the engine is high compression due to its 8.x:1 but I always heard that it was not, and would not be considered 'high' compression until 9:1 or better. Good answers. Now what is considered a 'high' compression engine over a 'low' compression engine, and why? </div></div> The GM LT1 V8's (1994-1996 Camaro, Firebird, Impala SS) are 10.5 CR and run perfectly well on 87 octane as recommended in the owner's manual. Many other factors can contribute to pre-ignition ping, such as carbon deposits, combustion chamber design, cooling system efficiency etc. If your Caddy doesn't complain with 87 octane and you have hardened valve seats you are most likely okay running it.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">BTW--do you know what engine Chrysler copied to make the first generation Hemi? </div></div> Offenhauser OR maybe the ford flat head V8? </div></div> The combustion chamber design and valve layout is much like the Jag XK120 (tho the Jag had dual overhead cams and the Hemi is a cam in block). Offy and the Rolls/Packard/Merlin V12 also had a hemi chamber IIRC.

NICE car!!! Perhaps one of the prewar experts will jump in? I believe the Darrin converts were mostly on the 120 chassis, but I'm not sure. Run the chassis tag at www.packardclub.org in the "reference" section. Thanks for the photos...do you have any of the engine bay? I'm curious to see how that big motor fits in a relatively narrow space. Cheers, John

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> So far, with the luck I have had finding a connecting rod bearing for my 1939, an early Hemi sounds somewhat functional! Guess I will work a little longer on finding that bearing. </div></div> I assume you have tried all the usual suspects???...Kanter, Egge, Terrell? Could the rod be machined to accept a more readily available brg? Hope you find one. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

That?s great?all?s well that ends well. I take it that your Uncle converted the car to an early Chrysler Hemi way back when? I personally prefer original cars, but given the choice I?d rather see an early Elephant Motor than the typical Chebby ?belly button? small block. Here is a site with some good pix to help identify the model: http://oldcarandtruckpictures.com/Packard/1940.html

Hello Michael & welcome. Many US cars prior to 1955-56 were 6 volt positive ground. You will note that the cable terminals and battery posts are different sizes??with positive being the larger. I suspect that your positive cable will be ground unless the car has been modified. As noted, the voltage regulator and radio may be damaged by reverse polarity?hopefully not. Is your car a Darrin?....just guessing by your sig. PS with the exception of one wisearse, you will find most members here quite friendly and helpful. The wisecrackers are easily dealt with via the ?ignore? feature of the forum. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

When one brake component fails, the rest are soon to follow in my experience. I would seriously consider a complete brake service now and you should be good for several years. Check out bigkev?s site (packardinfo.com) for shop manual downloads and the xref lists for parts. Most if not all should be available thru NAPA or other sources. Be sure to get hoses, wheel cyls (usually easier & cheaper in the long run to buy new rather than kits) and think long & hard about upgrading the master cyl to a modern dual system for safety reasons. Craig?s site has some good info on the upgrade..(1956packardpanther.com).

Yup, call the yellow tow truck (preferably a roll back). When a wheel cyl is blown out all of the brake fluid shoots out the blown seal and none goes to braking effort on the good wheels.

Linky no worky.... <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Interesting indeed. I thought it might be some sort of scam, but I?m guessing someone made him an offer on the pair that he could not refuse. However, that doesn?t explain how the two auctions disappeared without a trace?unless that is a new eBay policy when an auction ends early. BTW, how were the cars ?up close and personal?? The conv looked like it had a nice original interior.

Was anyone watching eBay today? There was a matching pair of ?56 Caribbeans, one HT and one ragtop both MTV color code. Last I looked the conv was at $10K and the HT was at $7K. An hour later both auctions were closed with an explanation ?the item has been sold to the highest bidder?, tho the reserve was still shown as not met. I had bookmarked them and went back a few minutes ago and both have disappeared?they are even gone from the ?My eBay? watched items list?.very strange, it?s like they were never there, and I?ve never seen that happen before, even the obvious scams stay there with ?invalid item? or ?no longer exists? when you try to view it??.these totally went ?poof? without a trace. Strange doings at eBay lately???.