bradsan

Rich Hugh and others should be along shortly to tell you everything you need to know in great detail! Hugh has spent an incredible amount of time producing detailed drawings and commentary on many aspects of mid Twenties Buicks. He is currently in the middle of a carb air valve spring analysis for your car! Yes the carb is simple but it can be finicky to set up and some very experienced carb rebuilders have a low opinion of their utility. If you want to catch his attention sooner, maybe post this over on Pre-war Buick to get his attention. BTW, if stock, there is no vacuum advance but there is a mechanical spark advance . This usually breaks at the steering column gears or distributor because the distributor was made of pot metal floor sweepings and swells in the starter housing bore after 95 years. Once stuck is immovable so something has to give when brute force is applied. If you are really unlucky, the steering column spark lever will be broken too. Not sure how you fixed it but if you freed the distributor consider it a small miracle! Photos please! Brad

Thanks for the replies. Rusty I could try and fabricate a second plate but that area is already prone to sealing challenges and another plate would just double the fun with another gasket . Plus I've already spent time ( you would think lining up 39 holes would be easy but it isn't ) and dollars on what I've got . Definite Plan B though if I can't get this to work. Bob Any thoughts on soft solder and flux for stainless? I was concerned about what heating up the copper plate to soldering temps would do to the plating ( IE might cause separation) but I guess it isn't much different than the bottom of a kitchen pot! I think silver solder would be overkill and might actually damage the plating. but I do have some lower temp silver solder alloy for jewelry. Neverhad any success with silver solder other than to turn everything into a hot scorched mess. I did a similar repair to another cover by channeling my inner tractor mechanic and using jb Weld between the glytpal painted inside cover ( not plated) and the stainless plate because,well, I had already sprayed the cover , it was pretty and I didn't want to redo it. My confidence in that repair is waning! Brad

Servin If Larry's 1925 engine won't work, ( and I'd rather see that go to a good home) I do have a 1926 Std engine available. It's not complete( missing valve cover and exhaust manifold ) but likely has all of the parts you need. 26's have the water pump attached to the back of the generator . I know the generator is there but I can't recall if the WP is there or on the shelf .Best thing is, unlike 25's, you can buy a WP ebuild kit from Bob's ! '26 fan blades ( wider blades) and hubs (squarer) are slightly different than 25's I have not taken it apart so I have no idea what is inside but the outside is covered in a very protective coating of finely aged grease and grime! One thing is, I don't want to part it out and be dealing with left over pieces. The other thing is I'm in Vancouver, BC Where are you located? Please remember there is currently a slight COVID issue with the border right now but I have my fingers crossed on this summer. I don't think you want to pay LTL cross border shipping prices right now! If you are interested, let me know and I'll try to get some photos and send you a PM. Brad

Still trying to sort out my 1931 Auburn engine issue. Block is cracked in exactly this location at the valve guides ( it is , after all , the same basic casting! ) : https://forums.aaca.org/topic/277962-33-auburn-8-105-water-jacket-leaking-into-oil-block-repair/?tab=comments#comment-1489250 I finally pulled the water jacket cover off to see how ugly things were inside the block as I'm considering sending it off to try and lock stitch the cracks. Here is what I found: As you can see , the area directly in front of the water inlet pipe is the most heavily affected. Not sure what to make of that. I do know that #5 cylinder was previously sleeved . I did try the 'quick fix' of Irontite to try and deal with the crack without success.That stuff is now mostly lying in the bottom of the block as a sort of powder. I suspect that Irontite doesn't workswell on unpressurized systems since there is nothing to force it into the cracks! Thoughts on continuing or looking for another block? IT' interested that the worst afffected area is right in front of the water inlet. I'd like to keep the original l block if at all possible On the water jacket cover issue. The one I took off is copper plated over steel . They did not come from the factory that way so I'm pretty sure that it has been repaired in the past. What's missing from the water jacket is the distribution plate . Most of cars of this era had these plates and they are the first thing to rust way and disappear so they typically don't get put back in place. I understand that is one reason why the rear cylinders might run hotter on restorations since the coolant 'short circuits' to the front of the block. Here's one from this Packard posting: https://forums.aaca.org/topic/336684-plating-a-water-jacket/?tab=comments#comment-1961112 So I fabricated a distribution plate out of stainless following the instructions of another owner who had a photo of an old survivor water jacket. Notice the front of the plate is pinched to stop the coolant follow from 'short circuiting'. If you've lasted this long in reading this lengthy post congratulations, here is the question: I have a copper plated steel water jacket that I need to attach a stainless steel plate to. How does one do this? 1) solder it? 2) weld/solder some studs or maybe even stainless t-nuts to the cover and bolt it on . 3) Breakout the JB Weld and epoxy it in place . It should stay at a temp that is within its application range. I should mention the the water jacket itself has taken on a 'banana' profile that will just add to the fun . I was going to Glyptal the unpainted copper plated areas to stop any galvanic corrosion issues as I understand that can be an issue with that type of repair. Thanks in advance. Brad

Thanks for all of the responses. Chris, I think you're probably right on what went on at the factory level. It's pretty clear from looking at the chrome/brass assembly that there is no plating underneath the 'ball mounts' so they likely flash chromed the whole thing and hoped to sell the owner a new car before 90 years were up! I followed your Olds adventure and noted your attention to originality. Did you follow the consensus here and take the buckets apart for plating? Rivetting finished parts back together strikes me as a bit nerve wracking. I've never tried forming stainless rivets and i can't see forming plated steel ones without damaging the finish I've used the Restoration Supply rivet head screws but they are challenging to tighten! The last time I used them , I used Nylock nuts ( since you couldn't get at them after assembly so they wouldn't be seen) Had to cut a slot in the screw to stop the head from spinning and even that was challenging. Unfortunately , their closest size is 10-32 and I need 3/16 Brad

Thanks for the replies. Both cars are 31 Auburns. Both are in need of full restorations so its not nearly as exciting as it might sound! I know the plated brass set are original to one car; the painted set belongs to the car that came in boxes so I can't discount that they might be off a later 32 or 33 car which had the same headlights and therefore steel might be a running change. I'll follow up with a plater or two and see what their preference is. Thx Brad

I'm currently working on a 30's car that offered an upgraded trim level that mostly involved adding chrome plated light buckets . The parts manual shows a different part number for the the painted vs plated buckets. I have on my bench an example of each type of bucket. They appear to be identical in shape and construction. Both have a heavy mounting bracket riveted to the bucket ( no separate part number listed ) . This bracket is painted in one case and plated in the other. The rivets are painted in one case and plated in the other So here's the interesting part ( to me anyway!) While trying to repair the painted bucket to get it ready for chroming and comparing it to the plated bucket, (I currently have the bracket on the painted bucket removed), I came to realise that the painted bucket is steel and the plated bucket is brass. Both of the mounting brackets are steel. The rivets are steel in both cases. The questions for all of the experts are as follows: 1) Why did the manufacturer use two different bucket materials? My initial thought was that the manufacture was trying to avoid the copper plating process but given the brackets are steel, this wouldn't make sense as the brackets themselves would still need copper plating. I can't see them plating the brackets separately as you would still need to plate the rivets afterwards and risk damage during the assembly process. 2) Is there any reason not to have the steel buckets plated? There is rust and pitting behind the bracket of course and I'm not sure how the plater deals with that. 3) Should the brackets be removed for plating or left on ? I'm about to rivet the bracket back on but don't want to create. more work for the plater. Do platers (good ones that is !) typically disassemble the light or do they just plate the entire unit and expect the service use will not create a problem in the near future.. Thanks Brad

Here's some more examples ( Cadillac and Dodge) from a discussion on Roger's amazing modelling thread. It's toward the bottom of the page. https://forums.aaca.org/topic/145354-construction-of-a-continental-mark-ii-model-scale-112/page/68/ Looks like most manufacturers modified the left front in some fashion. Nash had to be different I guess!

Not sure if this is what you are looking for Here's the kick shackle set up on a 32 Auburn. Front spring rear shackles are the same left and right. There is only one front spring part number listed so presumably they are the same length . The Auburn design locates the 'kick' springs up inside the frame channel They fit above the vertical bolt. It's design also effectively locates the front spring eye at the same position; left and right. Do your springs measure the same length left and right?. Do they have the same arch when off the car ( they should be pretty close i would think.) Do you have a parts book for the Nash and does it list the same spring left and right? All of the rear mount hardware you show looks stock but a parts book could confirm. With the Nash design,all things being equal, the front leaf springs should be different part numbers given the different eye orientation. Was the cork for squeak control ?Doesn't seem like it would last long in that application if it was! Could the length issue be that someone has installed the wrong spring at some point?

Frank Picked it up at my local auto parts store. It was a rebadged offshore gauge for one of our local offshore equipment vendors. Likely neither would be familiar to you since I'm in Canada. Pep Boys, O'Reilly's , Rockauto etc should have them. Just make sure it is a 'mechanical' gauge . They are getting harder to find BTW since everything post 1960 is likely electrical . Here's an example https://www.rockauto.com/en/parts/dorman,7123,temperature+gauge,641 Just try to make sure your soldering operation is as far away from the bulb as possible. I made the splice pretty close to the gauge head. They all work on the same vapor pressure of the ether so as long as they are a mechanical gauge they should be fine as a donor. The only downside is that the wire wrap around the copper tube may not look authentic but since my original gauge came with a cloth type wire loom over it, i just slid put a new piece of that over the whole thing before soldering. Of course if you have a problem leak in the gauge head the gauge will stop working pretty quickly again! Brad

If your temp gauge needs no other work, the www.ply33.com instructions are simple and easy to follow. In my case, the donor gauge was about $29 and so far it was the easiest and cheapest thing on the car to restore myself. Just used regular ice cubes in water and moved quickly. The only issue to be mindful of is that the donor bulb and its fitting dimensions match whatever orifice is available on the engine. Oh, and use the solder sparingly, the ID of the tubing is tiny.

Another consideration in the above analysis of the one wheel burn out is that static friction is stronger than sliding friction. On a perfect roadway with perfectly distributed power to each wheel , they will always break loose at the same time leaving a perfect pattern on the roadway but the real world doesn't work that way! Once one tire breaks loose , the differential works exactly as designed , not desired! As Joe points out , driveshaft brakes are only as good as the downstream connections. Not just the axle shafts but there is also also a very important pinion to ring gear connection that can fail . Highly unlikely in a properly restored rearend but I believe a documented occurrence in well-worn Model T rear ends that have too much bearing play. There is a reason Rocky Mountain brakes are still an easily sourced option for Model T's, especially if you have an auxiliary transmission or Ruxstell 2 speed rearend.

Sent you a PM

I sure hope the bugs are gone ! Haven't seen any activity for a long time. No fresh piles of powder . Rescorcinol. Did the WIkipedia thing. From acne cream to resin! Read some of the instructions and cautions. It does sound pretty fussy to use , especially the required min working temp of 70F. and the acceptable moisture content of the wood https://www.christinedemerchant.com/adhesive-glue-resorcinol.html Could also just use a high quality carpenters glue for laminating. Most are water- resistant if not waterproof.

Thanks for the info. The Kwik Poly comment was definitely tongue in cheek! Most of what I have is definitely far,far beyond rehabilitation. I think about 10% of the original wood is usable as is I'm going to use white oak for the sills/platform and ash for the rest. The lumber has been waiting its turn for awhile and this thread has helped to confirm my original decision. Sourcing eastern wood species on the Wet Coast is difficult and expensive . What makes it more interesting is that is that the majority of the original wood pieces are actually built up from thinner stock . Most of that is delaminating , likely due to the hide glue that was used and the ravages of the elements. The problem is that what wood I can source comes skip planed to a 16th under nominal dimensions so a 4/4 board is actually 15/16th's. So , if I'm going to duplicate a 2" piece of material I need to start with a piece of 5/4 and 4/4 and then plane the crap out of it . Lots of wood chips in my future. Leaning towards epoxy as well. Both as a laminating and joint adhesive product and as a sealer prior to paint. I realise there are pluses and minuses to each material and each method , I think(hope) this approach will strike the right balance.

I was going to make you guess but it might be difficult if you don't have one in your shop to stare at everyday! 1931 Auburn cabriolet 1000 piece jigsaw puzzle .

A very timely thread and some great discussion for options for my future project. Given how my vehicle will likely be used I'm much more concerned about bugs getting in during storage than I am about water related issues. So the little bore holes are only the tip of the iceberg. It's when you see the inside that it gets interesting ! I'm thinking some KwikPoly should do the trick 😁. The 'fresh' damage occurred while it was being transported on an open deck truck and I made a series of really ill-considered decisions; starting with temporarily attaching the body to the frame using beetle infested wood and not fully comprehending why they started using shock absorbers,. All I can say is springs are really springy and, in hindsight, strapping the frame to the deck in addition to the axles would have been a really good idea . ( of course, the better idea would have been to transport the body separately. I was driving behind the deck truck on the freeway when it hit the mother of all pot holes and the frame tried to launch the body into orbit with a resulting giant cloud of wood dust and flapping sheet metal. Nearly soiled myself. Tow truck driver was oblivious and I spent the remaining 5 minutes of the drive repeating the f-word mantra and cursing my stupidity. There is also the 30's answer to undercoating/sound proofing that involves a lovely bitumous material infused with a certain fire retardant that seems to have fallen out of favour ( proudy part of their advertising in their brochure!) . I think I'll sacrifice originality and avoid reinstalling that on the new wood. I have to say that the 'undercoating' did a great job of protecting the metal where it stuck( and boy its it stuck!) . Unfortunately , they applied it after they skinned the wooden frame so it didn't protect the areas where the water and moisture ended up. Brad

I'm no fanboy of the man. Lots of warts on the the man and his products to be found. Kind of like old car guys and their restorations! His timelines are always optimistic ( so are mine) but the difference between him and most of us is that he eventually delivers . Like Henry Ford and his assembly line, Musk doesn't always invent the technology but he is either the first to apply it or apply it effectively.That he does without appearing to be anti-Semitic ( like some of the historical icons) is a plus; although admittedly, that could be tweet away like his misguided COVID opinions. Whether you like the funds your government has provided him for his rockets , he did so under a contract and a clearly defined one which he delivered on without going back for more in each case. Educate yourself on the Commercial Crew program and compare SpaceX to Boeing if you care to. Personally, I find what he is doing in Boca Chica to be absolutely fascinating out of the box stuff, both in manufacturing and engineering. You could argue that there hasn't been an original invention since the lever and the inclined plane if you really want to but he is taking the application of both new and old technology to some pretty interesting places and he is doing it largely without government funding; using both a significant amount of his own resources and some deep pocketed investors. To call his recent attempt to test his prototype a 'somersault ' shows a lack of understanding of what that test was trying to accomplish and the long term goals of his pet project. At least the man is not afraid to try new things and he does so in a very public way. Probably the most irritating thing about his detractors is that everyone whines about the current lack of ingenuity in American technology and how things have become stagnated . Here comes a guy putting his reputation and cash out there and people just want to tear him down. It certainly is an interesting sociological study. I'm reminded of the great scene from the Aviator when Hughes is testifying before the Senate every time I hear the grumblings. Back to automotive stuff Musk isn't developing much of the technology he is applying to his vehicles but he is the first to be using it in some pretty unique ways His large scale casting project was mentioned above. It's not that he's making the casting machine or developing the technology, (why would he try to develop expertise that is already available?), but he is the first to be using it in production to cast large sections of automotive subframes. If he is successful, it will dramatically reduce the cost of his product. Why aren't the other guys doing it? Simply a lack of vision and stagnation if some are to be believed. Don't believe it ? If you haven't already done so take a look at Munro and Associates who have done critical tear downs of both the Tesla Model 3 and Y. Sandy Munro is an interesting guy with a bio of 30 years in the automotive manufacturing industry.and seems like a pretty straight shooter . Here is a link to the episode where he discusses the 'blow-moulded' Tesla and how he has been suggesting the same thing to other manufacturers since 2017. If you want to skip the battery stuff, the interesting commentary starts at 9:45. I'd recommend his channel if you have some time to kill ignoring the car projects and household chores! All that said, I would not currently buy a Tesla because I'm convinced you never really own one. No access to parts, no right to repair. His somewhat revolutionary 'over the air 'updates are a two way street,and Tesla can turn options on and off if you are not compliant or if you sell the vehicle. If you try to rebuild a vehicle and Tesla doesn't like it, you are in trouble! Being my interests lie in the restoration and repair side of the hobby, what happens when that giant screen goes kerblooey and the part is obsolete? It's one thing to get a new computer when the old one dies, quite another to throw out the car. Even the 'megacasting ' causes me concern. How in the heck does one fix a damaged casting ? My concern is I think the cars Tesla is building are going to become as disposable as a dropped iPhone. I work in the claims side of the auto insurance business and anecdotally, it seems we never fixed a Tesla that had anything more than bumper damage! Of course the last reason I'd never buy one is that it would break the cardinal rule of spending more on your daily driver than a year's worth of car payments. That way, if it lasts 12 months it owes you nothing.😀 The real money needs to saved for the old stuff! Brad

The fridges were made by Servel and are fascinating pieces of technology made simple. ( Einstein and Szilard worked out the basics of the absorption fridge and held patents) Unless they are direct vent appliances ( combustion air and exhaust to and from the outdoors) ALL gas appliances need provisions for outside makeup air A properly functioning Servel is nothing to be worried about provided you 1) allow for make up air and 2) properly maintain them and 3) install a properly functioning CO detector as backup. The problems arise when the burner is not maintained and people run them in sealed up dwellings. A major design flaw on early models was the verticaI burner located right below the flue the allowed soot to drift down and fall on the burner orifice; upsetting the mixture ( blue flame good, orange flame bad!) . I believe the small number of fatalities occurred under one or both of these circumstances. Still running our 1951 model in the cabin. I service it annually and change the batteries in the CO detector. I can still get $100 for it if I wanted to turn it in but new fridges are $3000 and , as my neighbour would attest to , not nearly so reliable. Plus it's really neat! Agreed CO is nothing to mess with and one needs to be cautious but I find it interesting to see this reference on a site where I'm sure many of us insist on driving vehicles that carry way more risk than that fridge. I'm pretty sure there are a lot more valid reasons to recall my Model T and pretty much any of our vehicles up to and including the 1980's !! Brad

Hugh comes through again. I knew there was a reason I hadn't put our engine back together yet! DIY'ing new rollers and pins in the tappets was a nightmare. I did get that far! I'd love to know how Buick did that on the production line! Hugh , if i can ask one more favour, can you email me the Word document ( if you have it saved as same of course! ) ? Brad

For what it is worth, the owner Tom has emailed me back as follows: He has two other pre-war cars and this is surplus . Unlike some of us , he apparently knows his limitations Have a title for the car. Been parked for 25 years. Ran when I backed into the storage building. Don't have any extra parts. Vinyl seats. Don't know if speedometer works. I've turned over the motor twice every year to keep motor loose. I guess you have to prime a tank, then listen for some electric motor to run before starting the motor. I don't understand this process so that's why I didn't use the car. (Sounds like it has an electric fuel pump) Jake I wasn't trying to 'out' the car, just provide information for the buyer and seller. It is a unique automobile and of special interest to us north of the 49th. Its probalby the better market for the car and the information provided might help a sale up here. However, as has been posted in prior ads , unique doesn't always mean valuable! I think Tom is realistic about the car and the price. As mentioned, I shared the link to this post and I sure hope he isn't offended by the posts. I'm in no way trying to put the car down , I think it is great just as it is. It would also be a lot of fun to put back the way it was originally and I'm pretty sure you would have the only 1925 McLaughlin 2525A in existence if you did so. ( A bold statement which I will immediately be proven wrong on just for having stated it!). I would love to have the car . I won't comment on price because I'm not going to buy it for reasons previously stated. Here's another one, i would get the car with the intention of just driving it around and then I'd be staring at the car at 10PM one night , immediately drop everything I'm not doing on the other half-done cars , and start taking it apart to put it back to original. Sometimes, I think I'm Sid from Toy Story and the old cars all know me and try to hide in dark corners when they see me coming with a wrench and an idea. If this post finds the car a new owner, and I hope it does, then they hopefully have a lot of information to start enjoying the car whatever way they choose and some contacts to help them (if they so desire.) The 1925 guys are just enthusiastic, that's all! Brad

I had another email exchange with the seller Tom. Dad did the restoration with the parts he had , top is 'flexible', no rear seat heater, no side curtains unfortunately . He wants it to find a good home. I've emailed him with some more questions of how it runs , drives etc will keep you posted Larry That brochure is very interesting, I constantly make assumptions about McLaughlin and am proven wrong almost every time! I am still convinced the all of the bodies were fabricated in the same factory in the US and then sent to Canada for trimming and assembly. I just can't see GM not utilizing their scale of economy and running two separate factories just for the small number of open cars being sold in each country. The McLaughlin top is very different and I have to say I prefer the styling of the Buick 25A top. I can't quite figure out how those McLaughlin side curtains attached without any hardware on the door. Maybe the top sockets on this vehicle have been filled in?. Or maybe they hung them off the top which does appear to be a lot sturdier than the Buick version. Almost has the same design as this 'California Top' for a 1923 that was for sale on Ebay back in 2004 . If I recall, this top had an after market manufacturers name on it but of course I don't have that photo! If I was restoring it , I would be hard pressed to not to duplicate the Buick 25A top Greg I think your emblem needs a home. We have some parts to help you. I think auto transporters are 'essential' and still running across the border. Hugh is writing the restoration bible on these vehicles so you have all the resources at your disposal. Might as well spend the money now because after the Covid deficit we are running up , they are going to come after you for any cash you have lying around! any way It is really tempting, especially if running, but we are out of space and as you've mentioned before , storing cards in the Lower Mainland is not cheap! Plus I am still happily married but not about to push my luck. Ahhhh, but to have a driveable car instead of a bench full of dreams would sure be nice. Brad

I emailed the seller . He sent me a photo of the firewall data plate. It is definitely a McLaughlin and a 2525A no less. Trying to get some more info , like whether he still has the glass side curtains. He has a 1926 McLaughlin rad emblem on the car which is why the 1925 diamond shape can't be seen Was trying to get more info and then my service provider changed my email account and now I 'm just spitting up a lot of bad words. Cats and family are in hiding! Brad

Hugh I don't know how you find the time to do these instructions but I sure appreciate it. Looks spectacular.can't wait to see it on the car Brad

Ron It looks really nice! I'm curious how noisy it is when driving down the road. The stake bed on my 24 Model TT is an absolutely deafening cacophony of rattles ! Sounds like the truck is coming unglued.