JB-ed
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Posts posted by JB-ed
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stakeside
FYI---it is Doug Walters who has scanned in all these items. Please give credit where due. It has been a HUGE job, and we can not thank him enough for this effort.
By the way, Doug, I can not find invoices for Victory Sixes on the club website listings.
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Nearchoclatetown: Here is a quote from memos to dealers.
Standard and Victory Six Engines
Note: The following marks for the Standard and Victory Six Engines apply only to engines
with numbers over approximately 20,000.
“UM” Indicates 0.010 Undersize (2.239-in. Front; others 2.364-in.) Crankshaft Main
bearings and Standard (2.124-in.) Connecting rod crankpin bearings.
“UR” Indicates 0.010 Undersize (2.114-in.) connecting rod crankpin bearings
and Standard (2.249-in. Front others 2.374-in.) Crankshaft main bearings.
“URM” Indicates 0.010 Undersize crankshaft main (2.239-in. Front others 2.364-in.) bear
ings also 0.010 Undersize (2.114-in.) connecting rod crankpin bearings.
“OG” Indicates 1/64-inch Oversize O.D. (0.720-in.) valve guides.
“X20” Indicates Cylinder bores 3.395-in.. (This is a Standard production size.)I would imagine that X15 became yet another oversized bore standard.
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I believe the 2-toned green one with the horns and fog lights belongs to a Dodge dealer in Sylvania (Toledo) Ohio. It was not the first one shown in this thread. That one may be MIA.
There are several of these still running: one in mid-state Michigan, one somewhere in Kansas (which may be the MIA??), One was in Texas but sold to Europe, the one in Sylvania, One in Uruguay (in standard trim), one in Dubai (in standard trim), and one in pretty unauthentic shape in India. Oh, and mine in sport trim.
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Have heart---I did this several years ago to save a 1918 touring. A little at a time, measure and fit well, and you will have it.
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I'm guessing from the four-lug (19") wheel and hubcap and some frame details that this was a 1929 Dodge Bros. DA
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Thank you. I bypassed this .... hoping for the best.
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What is this raised, elliptical feature that is on the top, back, left of my Splitdorf coil with the top removed. I have just replaced the original coil with the Harley replacement and for now bypassed the two wires to this feature. But what is (was) it?
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It was the original Splitdorf coil. We substituted a Harley coil, observed a strong spark, and the engine started immediately. I have removed the coil box from the dash and now will check out the innards to see what's up. Short of finding some obvious misconnections, it looks like the original coil material will be swapped for a modern Harley coil. I hate to do this --the car is so original-- but 110 years is a long time for a poor old coil to survive.
Thanks very much, David Mc, for your help and drawings.
The car also needs new tubes and tires, so I suppose my next post will be seeking help with clincher rims. My previous experience is with 1920s Dodge Brothers cars, so this early stuff is all new to me.
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I'm thinking it's a low-amp battery delivering inadequate power to the plugs. I will work on this this weekend and get back to you. Thank you so very much.
This car is so very original....original Splitdorf with instructions still glued to the lid. Original battery box with compartment divided for dry cells, with instructions still glued to the lid.. Someone replaced all the wiring, possibly in the late 1950s, early 1960s, when this car seems to have been restored. It may need refreshing by now.
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Yes we tried gas directly in each cylinder; also starting fluid. Cleaned the plugs, checked gaps. However there is definitely no spark at all. I will explore the ground connections next. The previous owner provided a Harley coil in the package box on the rear deck, so I am ahead of the game.
What do you use as the "switch" between your battery and mag in your setup? Do you somehow wire in the original? A little help in that direction would be appreciated. Thanks for the response so far.
I am a bit dismayed that parking the car for about six months could cause so much trouble. I have only owned the car about nine months. Previous owner died, so I bought it from his widow who knows nothing about it. It started right up when I bought it after sitting for at least ten years untouched.
Thanks so much for your reply.
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1911 Runabout went into the garage running well last fall. Now she will not start. Drained old gas, put in fresh gas. New battery. But no spark at plugs, indicated by laying plugs on engine casting or checking for spark by holding plug wire away from top of plug. I get 6 volts from battery cables to terminals on top of Splitdorf box. 6 volts between top and bottom terminals on Splitdorf box. Ohm meter indicates points are opening and closing. Cleaned and gapped plug points. Yes, I am flipping the switch from "off" to "batt." What am I missing?
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Until some time in 1923, DB vehicles were designated according to the calendar year in which they were built. Your car built in 1917 was originally known as a 1917 vehicle for title and registration purposes. In the middle of 1923 the factory changed to designating the car model years according to a fiscal calendar beginning July 1st. To make matters confusing, they also rewrote their listing of serial numbers to reflect this fiscal-year production concept back to the very beginning in 1914. (!!!!)
Those of us who try to put our cars back to their original condition usually also date the cars according to their original dating. Hence yours is 1917.
According to orders from Pershing, the cars were uncrated at the shipping point and most of them were painted on site. Pershing gives formulas and (brush) painting instructions. At the armistice the army was left with many cars still "on the docks" awaiting painting and shipping. Hence it is likely that some black cars and some OD green cars were then sold as army surplus. It is highly unlikely that cars were returned to the US from Europe after armistice, so all the ones we may have here now never went overseas.
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Ha...10836. That makes more sense.
The earliest Senior Sixes came out late spring 1927 with this distributor, but changed to North East 10846.
Victory, introduced January 1928 (manufacturing started very slowly end of November 1927) had 10846.
Standard, introduced spring 1928, had 10846.
There were adjustments to the advance curve resulting in 10846-A and 10846-B. (These all had dual points, one piece pot-metal distributor housing, now being reproduced by Glenn Smith with points plate taking dual modern points))
Finally, Chrysler switched to 10845 (single points), late 1928, and this carried over to the 1929-30 DA.
The Senior engine was enlarged and otherwise tweaked, probably involving the change from 10836 to 10846.
This is more technical history rather than anything relevant to your work.
I will be discussing all this with guys at the annual meet with great interest. Thanks for posting your work. This is highly interesting. I hope we can talk in person some time. I am in NE Ohio.
John.
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Not to wring the last drop out of this, but I have a late 1930s "Delco" book that shows North East units, obsolete units, and replacement units for all their components. Delco continued the North East name and --more or less-- parts book for some time after buying them out. Regarding your particular distributor, is it possible that the hyphen (-) in the model number is actually a blurred out digit? This would make more sense based on the North East and later Delco numberings for these items. I suppose this matters little. However I have documented so much for the Victory Six, even going so far as to construct a service book (in CD format, sold by Myers), and so I would like to track down this distributor as a possible alternative to the original OEM.
I am going to hunt down the similar thread in the Hudson forum, as you mentioned, to see more about all of this. I find your work and success fascinating. I have experimented considerably with advance curves and also carburetor tunings for this engine. Much of my work follows that of Glenn Smith (Queensland Australia) who has had access to a dynamometer and has worked with it, both in designing his reproduction Stromberg carburetor and in tuning this engine.
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Are you going to the DB Club's annual meet next week? I'd LOVE to talk about this further with you.
Regarding the distributor, your 1-0836 must be a later replacement. The Standard and Victory engines are identical and all are spec'd for the same North East distributors. I have a detailed North East/Delco later application catalog that does not show 1-0836. I suspect the original distributors crumbled on the three Standards you have seen and all were replaced with this one. I have seen many Victory engines with later Delcos, same thing.
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Rodger Hartley always suggests to keep a slight drip to keep it clean.
Still, I'd love to see these reproduced.
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I have been after Glenn Smith (Australia) to reproduce the water-pump casting for years. These were a bit fragile and we need replacements.They easily break when pushing out bushings Perhaps designing the replacement to take a modern seal.
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Is it just "shadows" or am I seeing V-shaped channels in the transfer area that do not appear in later photo of this surface? (Five posts above) Also, do you then use an original gasket?
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It's also possible that if you switched to the Stromberg UX-2 carburetor, you may get even better performance -- if you use Glenn Smith's reproduction. Your distributor is not the stock model provided with the original engine. What is it from and how is the advance curve compared with the original. I presume you allow far less advance in timing, but how much?
Regarding my previous question, I understand your need to produce this in two parts, it's just that I could not see all the coolant passages (and still can't but that's my problem).
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Nice work. Please let us know how it runs. In the photo of the water-jacket plate on your kitchen table, I can't see the inlet hole on the underside view, but it is there on the top view. Please tell me what I am missing.
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Once again, for Terry Spooner. The number is on the RIGHT side of the frame. Near the front spring rear hanger. You are going to sand all the rust and years of crud away to read it. Use a flashlight at a severe angle to show up the shadows of the stamping. The numbers are 1/2-inch high.
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I recently acquired a very early (December 1927) Victory Six with internal threads on the top of the master cylinder. Absolutely every other Victory master cylinder I have is the other way around. I am guessing that this is the early design. Also a very different fill cap on the early one without the one-way valve.
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First of all, those carbs were used on many cars with different internal jets and openings. You have no idea whether that carb is set for a Dodge or not. Second of all, I also tried using an original pot metal unit on my car (Victory Six.) I reamed out all the holes that were causing shafts to freeze up; I used JB Weld to lock in various jets and bushings that came loose. Then while test driving on the road I hit a pothole and the throttle body disintegrated and the whole carb fell in pieces onto the mud pan and slid down onto the road. I was left with gas pouring from the vacuum tank onto my hot engine. DO NOT USE an original, pot metal Stromberg updraft carburetor. Get Glenn's replacement. He will use the parts from your carb, installing the proper ports and jets for your engine. You will be very happy with the performance of your car.
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Yes. Antique Auto Top Hardware has these twist assist cords. $325/pair, quite reasonable in my opinion.
www.antiqueautotophardware.com
Generator for my 28’ standard six
in Dodge & Dodge Brothers
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Most large cities have generator/starter rebuilding services that garages and parts houses use. The first one I called in Cleveland said "yep" and rebuilt three starters for 1928 DB. I took them the repro end plates I bought from Myers.