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I'm not going to pretend I'm a Packard expert but I have never heard of a 1951 Dietrich Packard. I thought Packard stopped using the Dietrich tag around 37/38. In any event you need to post pictures to clear up 90% of the questions.

I'm sure the public perception for many people is that the wealthy bumbled in to it or inherited their money. My observation is that 90 percent of the time you have someone who started with nothing, worked their asses off, took risks and put themselves in a position to be lucky.

I'm going to guess 28-34 Huppmobile. Of course Hupp had a about 3 different sized engines and I'm not sure how they got the displacement, not all the blocks may have been the same.

Cool car but there is a big difference between buying a car to tour with and buying a car to restore. I would argue that restorations should be left to marque experts or someone where the car falls in to their lap (for no money). For most cars, if they were given to you for free you would be underwater by the time you are done restoring them.

RM is selling a nice 320 long wheel base Cab A. I'm sure Henry will be watching. 78 bhp, 3,405 cc naturally-aspirated inline six-cylinder engine with a Solex 32 JFF downdraft carburetor, four-speed manual transmission with overdrive, independent front suspension with coil springs, rear swing axles with coil springs, and four-wheel hydraulic brakes. Wheelbase: 129.9 in. Excellent recent restoration by Mercedes-Benz specialistsOriginal, late-1938 3.4-liter engine with overdrive transmissionHighly desirable 540 K-inspired stylingNumerous desirable featuresSeldom seen, especially in such superb condition The 320 models, introduced in 1937 on the completely new W142 chassis, were the most expensive models available in the Mercedes-Benz catalogue. Only the opulent 500 K and 540 K variants, available to special order, were more costly. The very existence of the 320 was a tribute to how far Mercedes-Benz development had come in the decade since German financiers had forced the merger of Daimler and Benz to survive the economic chaos after World War I. With the support of the new government, the combined company had completely recovered and was not only winning in motorsports but was also producing a complete lineup of models. There was a Mercedes-Benz at every price point in the German marketplace, from the rear-engined 170 H and straightforward 170 V sedans to the glorious 540 K Special Roadsters, and examples were seen in the most fashionable venues of Europe and America. The W142 320 could be purchased with standard and short wheelbases and in a variety of body styles from practical sedan to sporty cabriolet. With war once again on the horizon, the W142 was even being produced in military trim. Four cabriolet versions were available, including a two-door two-seat, two-door four-seat, four-door four-seat, and extended four-door four-seat version, but these were produced only in very small numbers and only on special order for wealthy and influential customers. Taking into account all civilian body styles, a total of only just over 5,000 units of the W142 320 were built in all. By late 1938, when this example was built, high-octane gasoline was becoming less available to civilian customers; engine capacity in the 320s was increased to 3.4 liters to maintain the 78-horsepower output of the preceding 3.2-liter engine, but with lower compression. To take advantage of highway speeds of over 75 mph on the new autobahns, the 3.4-liter 320’s four-speed manual transmission was equipped with a planetary-gear overdrive, engaged by a separate lever. This example has the most desirable of the available 320 body styles: the two-door, two-seat Cabriolet A with a flat one-piece windshield sporting three windshield wipers. Built on the W142 chassis, the styling shows the clear influence of the designs of Hermann Ahrens, introduced on the 500 K and 540 K special body roadsters. The seats are set well back on the chassis to create a long hood allowing for flowing fender lines and a shorter tail accented by an externally mounted spare tire and wheel. As with other low-production cabriolets in the Mercedes-Benz line-up, the panels on this 320 were hand-formed over wood frames. The 320 models were built at both the Mannheim and Untertürkheim production plants, with this body bearing the emblem of the Mannheim Werks. Unfortunately, the Mannheim factory was one of the first destroyed in Allied bombing raids because of its location next to a war-critical ball-bearing factory, and all of the production records have been lost. Consequently, no other information other than that on the vehicle tags is available for this car, and no information exists on how many other 320 Cabriolet As may have been built. According to the owner, this 320 Cabriolet A was recently found in Eastern Europe, where it had sat untouched and in storage for several decades, probably having been hidden away during World War II. Purchased from the long-time owner, the car has been the subject of an exhaustive body-off restoration by experienced Mercedes-Benz specialists, with every single component removed and refurbished or replaced as necessary. In addition to completely restoring the chassis frame and suspension components, the work required rebuilding much of the ash framing underlying the metal body panels. The inline six-cylinder engine and transmission were, of course, completely rebuilt to match the attention given to the exterior and interior restoration. Photographs of the restoration process are available in the car’s file. A period-accurate two-tone paint scheme was selected for the car in the subtle but attractive black-over-green colors. The interior trim is done in matching dark green wool carpeting and green leather complemented by a rich finish on the wood trim, which effectively sets off the mother-of-pearl center-mounted instrument panel, white control knobs, and steering wheel. The cloth top and covering for the externally mounted spare wheel and tire are done in a matching dark green. Wide whitewall Firestone tires, of the sort that an American owner would have mounted, are an effective counterpoint to the dark colors of the 320 Cabriolet A. The car is fitted with an interesting set of period-correct optional accessories, including a folding leather-upholstered seat for a child, or perhaps a maid or valet, in the tonneau area behind the front seats; spotlights mounted on the A-pillars; and a third driving light in front of the grille and externally mounted chrome Bosch horns. A set of matched luggage, in green and black to match the interior, has been fabricated to fit the compartment accessible from the tonneau area. Elegant in presentation, comfortable to drive, and easily capable of modern freeway speeds, this rare and seldom-seen 1938 Mercedes-Benz 320 Cabriolet A will be welcomed on long-distance touring events and at regional concours events.

Very well done. I really like the colors.

So, that Hudson I just posted is available for 90k, maybe you could get it for a less. It is a AACA national & CCCA senior in 1975. Not as good a engine as the Stutz but better in every other conceivable way otherwise. http://www.volocars.com/1931-hudson-model-t119-boattail-speedster-c-4158.htm

Victor, while Auburn boattails have gone to un-obaintalbe status you can still get one of these reasonably cheap.

Ed, what do you estimate that engine build work cost today? 40k? 50k?

"I always look at the window sweeps on a car first. That is a good indicator of the level of detail that went into the car." Absolutely! That and rubber window seals on later cars is the first thing I look at. As far as the paint goes I just make sure it is straight (which eliminates about 90% of all new paint jobs).

Dave does make a good point about restorations. How many people take the time to remove the sping covers and re-graphite between the leafs? This makes a big difference in the ride as one example.

Thanks Guys! That was why I asked. I have driven with Ed in a big 12 and I can attest it absolutely motors. Never been in either a 41/42 or a 43 so I'm glad you could give us the differences. I like to describe a Model J as a suped up truck, which is the way it drives so I can't argue with the description of the Pierce as a better driving car - I'm doubt anyone would argue that. For this thread, once I saw the right hand drive my vote swung over to the Pierce. Of course not my money .

I'm not disparging the big Pierce Arrow 12, or the big 8 Model 41/42 in 1931 - those are great cars. But this thread is about a model 43 which is just not the same thing. Maybe Ed Minnie can chime in and tell us exactly what the differences were between the high end and low end models. The Pierce V12 (the larger one) is a a good 40 cubic inches bigger than the Duesenberg straight 8. Also, it is a later design, 1928 vs 1931. When Abe set those records in 34 that was a 7 year old design which was an eternity in automotvie engineering at that point. I do lust after a Model 41 Lebaron Sport sedan, I really love the looks of those cars.

I say 500.00. This is the 4 door version of my 2 door high school car. All comments above are spot on. Anyone else notice that whenver the lead shot on ebay is the front end the car is always a 4 door sedan? Btw, this car as a business coupe brings 10x the money. A really nice business coupe will bring 12-14k.

It would be interesting to know how many of the 400 odd Model J engines still around are running the original rods. I would think most have the steel supercharged rods by now. Stutz has the same issue and many of those are running Packard Super 8 rods now.

Ultimately the only thing that counts is that you like the car. If you expand your search a bit to the mid-30s there are some interesting convertible coupes that would be within your budget.

No connection other than they both were big cars so there was a natural need for some of the same components. I just found out the other day that while the two cars do not share distributors they do share the same dual points.

I think if you could find a Auburn cabriolet with the 2 speed rear end that would be a great car. I have seen ones in similar condition to the hudson for around 50k us. I thought a bit more about the list for 1931 and realized a couple of horrible oversights. 1. Dueseneberg (you can't even compare based on price, acceleration, top end, etc) 2. Marmon V16 (except this woudl stick with or pass the Duesey up to 100mph) 3. Caddy V16 4. Stutz DV32 5. Pierce 41,42, Packard 845 6. Chrysler CG 7. Pierce 43, Cord L29, Caddy V12, Auburn V12, Reo Royale, Big Peerless, etc.

This would be a good tangent. American chassis in 1931: 1. Duesenberg Model J 2. Marmon V16 3. Caddilac V16 4. Pierce Model 41 & 42, Packard 845, After that you have a whole bunch of cars in a bunch. Including top of the line Peerless, V12 Caddy, Reo Royale, Pierce 43, L29 Cord,

I think the tires make the wheels look wrong. I missed the right hand drive on the Hudson... that makes this a tougher choice. I'm not a fan of RHD unless the chassis would only come that way (Issota,Hisso, Alfa, etc).

The Model 41 for 1931 was certainly one of the top 4 or 5 American Chassis from 1931. This is a Model 43 which was Pierce's attempt at a lower priced car.

Keep in mind that the Model 43 is the down market Pierce for that year so this is not exactly like comparing a race horse to a plow horse. All things equal you always go with the convertible but the Pierce is still an up market chassis from the Hudson so things are not exactly equal. I guess assuming identical mechanicals I think I would probably go with the Hudson given the lesser price. That car with correct tires and better colors would be very sporty.

I don't think it is that bad. It is what it is. I guess my expectations are low given it is a cobbled together body. Jason - does that look like a real roadster cowl to you?

Victor that is a cool car. Hopefully Jason will see this and add his two cents. An original roadster in runing condition would bring more than 50k. I generally advise against rebodied cars because you spend the same amount of money on it as you would a correct car but the value is never there. I think if you paid 20k you would always be fine. If you can get it to run maybe even 30k. However, I can tell you from experience that this is a 25-30k engine to rebuild correctly so if it is not running I would not go over the 20k.

The one in the middle looks like a 70 Lemans/GTO with Chevelle rally stripes. I'll guess 41 Plymouth for the one on the right.