novaman

Judy, I just hope that family aren't black with a red spot on the rear. I got the surprise of my life this summer when I rolled over a bag of peat moss in my backyard. About an inch from where I slid my hand under the edge of the bag was a black widow!

Some of us may not watch youtube videos because we are not allowed to at work where we are using broadband and may not want to wait for it at home on dial-up. If my boss finds out someone's been on youtube with the compnay computers heads will roll!!

There is no "new" FrontPage, 2003 was the last for it. Microsoft had replaced it with Microsoft Expression Studio. If you keep the site simple, Frontpage still works fine. Although you may want to complimwnt it with other things. For the NC Region site had used Flash to greate .gif files for antimation. I could have done the whole site that way put anyone visting the site would have to have a flash player installed. Therefore I stuck to the .html format of Frontpage.

Wayne, don't forget Obama's gonna spread that wealth around so we all will be able to afford new cars. Bill Gate's annual income divided by say $20,000...... that's a bunch of people gettin new cars.

It's so easy a bovine can drive it!

Holly is OK in my book. Never met her but she'd got a Chevy II

Now that thought made my day. :)Actully even was the bright spot in my week. I found out Tuesday from our parts man here, that a guy that he and I use to work with hung homself over the thanksgiving weekend. One of the last people you'd expect that type of action from. Then Dad ended up in the ER at vetern's hospital for about 8 hours yesterday on a heart monitor to have tell him they couldn't find the source of the problem.

Jim's post although hilarious, wasn't really helpful, but sometimes that seems what some people think we should be doing when we judge. It takes NASCAR several hours after a race to do an inspection like that, I don't even want begin to think of how long it would take to do several hundred vehicles at a show. I have three Chevy IIs. 1 that I do show at AACA national meeets in the HPOF class. I like that, you show up, park it maybe a quick wipe (can't polish my car due to dead paint or it will turn white) and go enjoy the show. I have two others I'm restoring and both of them will be going into the DPC class if I take them to a national meet. I'm like you and like to drive the cars and I don't want to have deal with the things you need to, to have the car judged. The awards aren't that important to me.

Yes, the cars I used in my example would be in different classes I used, BUT all the variations like the hidden headlights, engine placement (Louts mid-ship but other sports cars up front),a CJ Jeep can be in class 26 a,b,or c which is late 40's early 50's production cars, and battery placement do still apply because they also can all vary within a class. I have one '63 Chevy II that has no radio and 2 '63 Chevy IIs that do have an AM Radio. Therefore they are not invalid. Back to the fact that AACA judges everything, The rules need to be simple enough that the judges can move around in the classes without a 50lbs book stating what can and cannot be judged in a certain class considering there are over 100 classes total. And yes Matt's answer is correct and that helps to balance things out too. One thing to keep in the back of your mind while here, Matt is fairly new to the AACA judging system and he of course see things from a different angle than say ShopRat, Jim or I (I've been a judge for roughly 20 years). When people post things like you did on here, the three of us will sometimes go into more of a defensive mode because we are use to people trying to bash the system. This is what I sort of did with your post. I try to explain why we do what we do and sometimes get to technical for some. Which in your case wasn't even really the answer you were looking for, and I do apologize. ShopRat, Jim Bollman, Ex98thdrill, Matt H. and I are here to try to help others understand the AACA judging system. Sometimes you may need to take our replies with a grain of salt (Things don't alwys get interpeted correctly in reading text) but our intention is to be helpful not to try tearing someone apart because of what they said. Our goal is for you to understnad the system, and hopefully come out and join us either with your car and/or join us as a judge.

Jim.... That wasn't very helpful

You need to remember that in AACA, we judge all makes & models. Yes, sometimes somethings seem a little unfair but it is hard to make the rules apply to ALL vehicles and be 100% absolute fair to everyone. There needs to be a little common sense used. On a 1960's car you judge the battery but on some of the early cars, the battery is hidden under the seat. So do you: A) judge only the batteries that can be seen do you make the owner remove the seat and possilby scratch his vehicle C) not judge any battery on the field? Many more modern cars have hidden headlights, where the older ones don't. So in this case do you: A) judge only the headlights that can be seen make the owner operate the headlights which may require hunting down the onwer and getting him back to his vehicle so he can open them which all slows down the judging process C) Not judge any headlight on the field? In some of the sports cars, the engine is mid-ship and requires the removal of a very large trunk panel (it is the entire trunk) So in this case do you: A) judge only the engine components that can be seen Make the owner get out the tools required to remove this to access the engine compartment and possbily scratch the vehicle C) Not judge any engine component on the field? In the case of a Jeep, the top/roof is an option. So in this case do you: A) judge the top/roof on vehicles that have a top/roof Not judge any top/roof area on the show field? Model A's don't have a radio AM or FM. So do you: A) judge the radio on vehicles that have a radio Not judge any radio on the field? The '57 chevy has something 60 options for it, so do you: A) require every owner to get and install every option available judge each car with the the options the onwer decided he wanted and take points accordingly C) mandate the every car can not have any options so there can be no points taken for condition of the options. My point is, that the rules are written to be as fair as possible to everyone considering that we are not judging identical vehicles.

Steve's a little later than early but not extremely late, I believe. If she's 27 then I'm 24 and you're 23.

dealer technicians are usually flate rate. If the book says it should take you an hour to change that part you get paid an hour wether it took you 15 min becuase you figured out a fast way of doing it or three hour because it is siezed on there tighter than a tick on a hound dog, you still only get an hour. That's why Im glad I'm no longer working in a dealership. Hard to make $$ that way. Also not having to deal with the public. We had on tech that got his butt royaly chew for having according to the female owner, grease all over her seats. He went out to the car to clean it and found her kids in it eating rasins, and the "grease" on the seat were smashed rasins. I got chewed out for speeding. The lady's daughter claimed I was doing 70MPH. She was just getting to the dealership when I went by her. I was doing about 50-55 mph. she turned around and caught upto me in about a mile to mile and a half. I couldn't get it through to the service manger or the mom that she had to speed to catch me and I wasn't going that fast or she'd never have caught up to me. Remember the customer is always right (even if they are wrong).

It has been touched upon slightly in the expense of needing a lot of tropies that get wasted if you use the AACA classes with multiple awards. With the NC Region and Alamance Region out of the entry fee they each get roughly $5 after paying for the trophies. The differance between the two is with the NC Region spring and fall meets you must be an AACA member & pre-registered like at national meet. They know the max number of awards they need. With the Alamance Region show it is open to the general public. I've seen as few as about 20 cars to about 110 cars at the shows over the years. The year with about 20 cars, the day was steady rain. A lot of leftover trophies that year. Where Alamance makes up for the cost of tropies out of the registration is through sponership and runs an roughly 5x8" ad in the local paper the wed before the show listing the sponsors plus there are posters placed around town that also list the sponsors. With the economy the way it is, it's really going to be tough selling those ads this coming year. Around here Pat, you won't lose out the same vehicle every year because the unoffical theroy seems to be "let's keep everybody happy and give a 1st or 2nd to eveyone in attendance".

As for the "people's" chioce system, I do believe the Wayne Drumlins do have one of the best systems by it being other antique car owners judging another ramdonly select antique car class and the street rods doing the same for a street rod class. That cuts out most of the problems of voting for your buddy, put it is cars owners judging cars/workmanship they are fimialar with. But still, how do you educate people that the car that is decked out in chrome and custom fabric is NOT an antique car and would not win anything at an AACA national meet? That it falls in custom and would better in the street rod class.

One other thing I have found that wasn't mentioned here is that the general public (and some AACA members at anational meet) don't understand AACA judging to begin with. I've seen guys with really nice cars 400 pointer from 20' get upset because they didn't get awards. But upon a closer look there are problems with the car. The public seems to think chrome vavle covers, chrome alt., radial tires, etc are factory and/or perfectly acceptable on say a '61 Chevrolet Impala. At the local level you want to try to please the majority, get them in the club then were we fall short, try to educate them on the national judging standards so they can be succesful at a national meet. What would be even better is to educate the public on the national judging standards at the local show.

It probably would fall in that new class of second gen cars to which the vin numbers are checked proir to the meet to be allow to show. The VINs are checked to make sure they are Manufactered and not kit cars. Example, If i remember correctly the Shay Model A you could buy either as a kit car and build it in your garage or you could buy it completed from the manufacturer. If it went out the door of the factory as a kit, AACA has access to the VIN record which will show it left as a kit and therefore not eligbable for the seond gen class.

Me too! I though I never served, My father did and many folks I know did too and I salute them all for having served either in peace or at war.

Personaly too many people value a $15-$30 piece of plastic that will sit around collecting dust more than the opertunity to meet new people, teach the public about the car they own, assit owners of others cars that need someone guide them on thier restoration project, and cherishing the friendship they have made with fellow hobbyists. That is the part of this hobby you can't buy.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">good old Sherman </div></div> Better be careful there Wayne. Ya's startin' to sound like one of them there Yanks Couldn't resist pokin a little fun. Glad you had a good and safe time.

<span style="font-weight: bold">"Starting a new thread!" Wayne</span> That has been one of the short falls for years. I think we are doing a better job of it now that we did before. BUT.... it also requires one thing we can't control and that is for people TO STOP AND READ. Billboard sign at the motel and he didn't read it. We even have people in AACA that have no clue on the process of attending a show or tour with a vehicle. It seems the info is "being withheld from them" but they never read the insert with the mag or bothered to ask a fellow AACA that does attend the national meets/tours for infromation about attending one. Then he/she shows up at the event and gets POed because they aren't allowed to enter/particpate in the event. I don't know what the answer is to getting people to slow down and pay attention to the infromation that is presented them in whatever form. So much advertising in our daily life has made us a socitey that tunes most advertising out.

I think it is still a little early for the seminar list.

Don't mean to hijack the thread, but the Alamance Region took a tour to Danville, VA a couple of years ago and we visited the "last capital of the confederacy", which was a house that is now an art museum. This house was the last place Jefferson Davis did any offical business. At any rate, I had arranged to have them provide a guided tour of the house talking about it's history. The gentleman's name......Mr. Grant!!! Back to your regularly scheduled program......

There are many members like my parents and I that belong to multiple regions/chapters. When we lived in NY we belonged to the GVACS and Wayne Drumlin Regions. Since being in NC we belong to the NC Region (but none of the chapters), Alamance Region (use to be a NC Region chapter), Deep River Region. For me the NC region functions can be as close as 15min away upto about a 4hour drive one way for something going on at the coast. Alamance Region is 18 min drive and Deep River is over in Colfax and pushing an hour drive. Matter of fact thier meeting is this evening. With the different regions you'll find some that focus on only showing cars, some that focus only on touring, some that is an even mixture of both. You'll find some that are very active in doing things other than just a monthly meeting and others that are happy simply meeting once a month. You might need to "shop around" and find the right club for your interest.

Just hope you didn't stick that lit cigar in your pocket like Ron would his pipe!!