ranchero

Packard V8 - boy, two Packards and two Indians. Pure American. Yup, and pure incompetence too! What decade was it when those two historic companies went belly up? Well, they used all American parts at least. Looking at the automotive market of 2002 through the prism of a personal relationship with relics of a different time may not provide insight into today's market. I love old American cars, mainly for the style and history. But I also know the zenith of the American auto business was a long time ago and that unfortunately the manufacturers based in other countries do a better job now in all aspects - from market research and design to manufacture and sales. A glimmer of hope for Buick may be the V-8, rear wheel drive (hopefully available) Buick Rainer. I am very interested in old Skylarks and Packards too but know that the world circumstances that contributed to the wonder of the product of those times have changed forever and staying loyal to American product may be like feeling safer on the Titanic than on the lifeboats.

Well I put my money in a wagon. Not too much of it and certainly a lot less than is in my Riviera convertible. My wagon is a '69 Ford Falcon Futura. I was so pleased to see a picture of yet another '69 Falcon wagon in the new (August) issue of Hot Rod - Reader's Rides section. And it is owned by a high school kid whose only modifications have been new "rims". Well my Falcon wagon is completely stock and original. I am the second owner. It is a dry western car, originally from San Diego. Generally these cars were not taken care of - they ended up with a kid going to college or the plumber. They were trashed. So an old, original wagon is rare and a very fun vehicle to have at a car show. Get one. You'll have the only one at the show. People like a wagon; it is a friendly, non-threatening car. Enjoy.

I have had this factory seal separation problem on a '99 miata. The product I used, after some research, has a nickname of "gorilla snot" but it is manufactured by 3M and called by them "Super Weatherstrip Adhesive". The 3M part number is 051135-08001. I got it at a good auto parts supply house. It is potent stuff - be careful. It is very sticky and ugly (brownish yellow). It can be cleaned off the glass after it dries. The repaired seal held ok but I never got over being mad at Mazda for not fixing the problem for me under extended warranty.

JL might just be about the only die cast manufacturer interested in a Reatta/Allante/two seater series. They have produced models of some pretty obscure cars that have been ignored by almost every other die cast manufacturer - '80s Lagonda, Cheetah, both 1969 and 1970 Cougar convertibles. Their series releases usually include six cars. Get them to add Kaiser Darrin, Nash Metropolitan, Playboy, Woodill Wildfire, King Midget, Cunningham, Delorean, Bricklin or Fiero and you could have a nice theme series of American two seaters that couldn't be profitably sold by the original manufacturers.

ntx5467: that is a very interesting, perceptive post. thanks. one, yes you must be right that the marketing gurus now do not understand any of the history of the market position of buick. they are marketers - might as well be coca cola or nike. they do not know or care about automobile history. two, many mercedes buyers do not understand or care about the superb technical features of their cars. also correct. but i've bought a new mercedes recently, not a new buick, and not because of what my neighbors think when the car is in my driveway (though i contend that none of my neighbors would ever bother to take a second look at any new buick if it was just home from the dealership and parked in the drive). rather i bought the mercedes because it was a well performing, quality two door coupe - something buick no longer offers. buick also does not have a convertible - but mercedes has them in two and four seaters. buick does not have a wagon but mercedes has them in two sizes. buick does not have rear wheel drive but all mercedes cars have rear wheel drive. the average age of a buick buyer is the very highest of any new car buyer - 63. buick has been able to attract a few younger buyers with rendezvous - they are down to 55 with that car. my age is 51 and unfortuntely buick has no cars that even slightly interest me (no riviera, no coupe, no convertible, no wagon). i bought the mercedes. maybe the rainer will help. i love buick for history, style, performance, class. but there is no buick nor coming buick which tweaks any interest at all.

I know what the frequency problem is. It is on AM. In the USA AM band stations jump at 10kc intervals - ie 800 - 810 - 820 - 830, etc. This is not true in Europe. Rather AM stations in Europe may be at any of the eleven frequencies between 800 and 810 - ie 804, 805, 806, etc. The Becker radio in some Mercedes cars will tune at 1kc intervals as opposed to American AM radio tuning at 10kc intervals. I think the Reatta owner needs a Becker European radio.

As noted, a 1990 Reatta coupe is denoted as an "EC1" in the VIN. It is very hard to understand how anyone paying attention could confuse your Reatta with a 1990 Electra. The VIN code for an Electra of that year would have to be "CX5", "CF5", "CU5" or "CW5". Note also that the Electra and Reatta were not built in the same plants so there is no legitimate way that an Electra VIN could have mistakenly been put on a Reatta car or MSO.

I also have an '82 Riviera convertible. The car had as a standard engine an anemic 4.1 litre v-6. That should be avoided. Most cars had the optional Oldsmobile 307 v-8. That is still not enough power, but it is better than the v-6. I have had no mechanical problems - just maintenance and replacement of burned out light bulbs. The Riviera convertible is a better car than the similar Eldorado convertible of '84/'85 and it was also produced in fewer numbers but it does not sell for as much. I suggest you check out the Riviera Owners Association - on the web at "www.rivowners.org". Join the ROA for an excellent publication "The Riview".

Know what? the people are fooled by it. They perceive the value of the Lexus as much greater than the Skylark, and that's just the way it is. Tell your neighbor about what a wonderful and stunning car a Buick Skylark is and maybe, just maybe, he will remember a crappy rental car he had from Avis in Florida six or seven years ago. Tell your neighbor you got a new Buick and find out how long it takes him to come down to your driveway for a look. Nobody who is a bit alert and aware to current car tastes cares an iota about a Buick. But say that magic word "Lexus" to them and their ears will perk up and they'll run down to look at the leather and nav system. Lexus has established in ten or fifteen years a market position that Buick took seventy years to build and another thirty to squander away. I swear I will never have a Lexus in my garage, but then, as a car nut, I know and care about cars. Which group of buyers presents a better opportunity for a manufacturer - one which is influenced by the interests and awareness of teenagers or one which loves the technical innovation of a 100 year old brand? The Lexus TV ad which "disses" the value of a real Skylark just tells me how out of the mainstream Buick and us Buick nuts really are.

Did you see the beautiful maroon '53 Skylark appearing in a current TV ad selling 2002 models? <P>Well, the ad is not selling for our friends Buick (who are too busy with Tiger Woods rolling a Rendevous around in a tornado). Nope, it is Lexus selling their SUV! <P>The story line is: weather report of rain storm coming, owner runs out of the house to protect his car. There is some uncovered Lexus SUV in the driveway, next to a car covered by a tarp. Guy runs out to the driveway, rips the tarp off what is revealed to be a TOP DOWN '53 Skylark and protects the Lexus with the cover!<P>So the guy likes his new Lexus better than his Skylark. Now that could've been a Buick ad too - something showing the Skylark and using it to emphasize the heritage of Buick. But GM/Buick doesn't do that; they just make a silly SUV and have Tiger woods whirling around in a tornado. Lexus uses a stunning Skylark in a TV ad and to the people who see it the Buick is just some old, top down convertible which has less value to the owner than your ordinary, common, new Lexus SUV. <P>So there is the value of Buick in today's marketplace! Incredible!

Red - Good luck! I was too for a long time. There are not many Reattas in the mountain west and I'd bet not too many where you are. I was willing to travel for a great car. There was a beautiful and low mileage '91 convertible in Stillwater, Oklahoma but it was very expensive. For what I expected to pay for a nice '91 convertible I ended up buying a very good Mercedes SL. If your budget is for the Reatta convertible, consider the much more common SL as an alternative.

Though there were eight cylinder Buicks with three per side, could it be that someone now believes that there should be an exact correlation between the number of cylinders per bank and the number of ventiports per fender? Of course then the logical placement of three per side ventiports on the park avenue's sidewinder v-6 would be in the hood & grille. I guess ventiports and cylinder per bank only works with logic on a rwd v-8 car - a proper Buick.

I see two issues with the UAW that work to put the historic American car companies at a big disadvantage versus southern or foreign made cars. One is the complete lack of flexibility in making decisions only appropriate to management in the staffing of UAW plants. Of course the companies gave away their options at contract time when the threat of a strike during good times was held over their heads so they really can't complain. But the result is a long term financial burden that the competition does not have. Note Ford factories in New Jersey, Cleveland and Minnesota. They will close because they are no longer efficent. The production from those plants is surplus. Yet UAW contract requires the plant to remain open and the redundant workers remain employed until at least the contract expiration.<P>Another big problem with the UAW is that it has turned into an arm of the democrat political party. It has a much larger social agenda than simply the well being of the individual members. Has this diluted the benefit the members get from their dues? Is it a political action committee or simply a trade union representing only the interests of workers? What should be the focus? In Germany the car factories are unionized certainly but the union is not a political tool - rather it is a much more traditional craft guild where worker training and apprenticeship are key considerations.

SkyKing: You've pegged a problem - uaw/caw union workmanship. After experience with careless assembly on a 2000 model year American corporate/American built car, for the next one we went German. Not only are Buick offerings fairly boring now, you've got uaw workmanship to deal with. Foreign brands, built abroad or in the non-union south, seem an attractive solution. Yup, the unions did it to themselves.

Ted: you've got it right; I think like you do. I drive a '97 Riviera every day and when it is nice bring out the '82 Riviera convertible. But look at Mercedes, BMW and Audi. There are wagons. There are coupes. There are convertibles. Plus sedans and SUVs. I prefer to go to Buick for my next car (& use my GM credit card points) but I don't want a four door sedan, SUV or mini-van. If Lutz can help Pontiac by bringing in a GTO coupe in a year, he can also do something interesting for Buick now.

Let's see. Another SUV and two new four door sedans. Oh boy, I'm excited. These will be fine, even excellent vehicles. Meanwhile, I'll keep driving my Riviera and wonder well, what about a coupe? What about a convertible? What about a wagon? Aren't these proposed new lines simply more of the same stuff that got Buick where it is today?

There may be many, many more Cadillacs memorialized in song, but there is no Cadillac song as cool as "Hot Rod Lincoln".

JConkright & 72 Electra: Those are not my opinions but rather a summary of the quite good story I read in Business Week. <P>I don't really have much of an opinion about Cadillacs - probably because I am a member of that baby boom generation which GM has found have a general disdain for the Cadillac marque. I am interested in the strategy that GM has for Cadillac as a potential model for the strategy which might be used on Buick. <P>I agree that the current Cadillac cars do achieve a high standard of quality, reliability, durability and comfort (as do current Buicks). But someone has to want the cars too!<P>hvs mentions a key theme from the Business Week story - the many technical failures or marketing errors for which Cadillac was accountable. I remember the Cimarron; Business Week did too.

For those Buick fans considering the indifferent current product from Buick and the future of the brand, may I suggest reading the cover story in the current issue of "Business Week"? You won't be able to miss the cover - it pictures the fins of a black '59 Caddy.<P>The story, though not without errors (Corvette built at Bowling Green, Ohio), is quite insightful on GM's quandry with that other historic brand. Of course Lutz figures prominently. Buick is mentioned, but only as an aside (the "elegant" brand as opposed to the "arts & science" brand that is Cadillac).<P>Cadillac has a very unsure future. The brand is popular with only three market groups: loyal 70's something "boat" buyers (whose generation is not a growing market share); hip-hop/rappers and athletes (limited to Escalde and not icons whose preference for the brand can be used to sell in the general market) and finally 20's somethings who do not share their parents' prejudice against the brand (but who also are decades away from being able to afford to buy new Cadillacs).<P>An interesting market problem for Cadillac is the complete disdain for the brand found in the baby boomer generation - a group in whose age is found the traditional Cadillac buyer. A second generation Cadillac dealer family member is interviewed - he sold the dealership and drives a BMW! This is also an important age group for Buick. The quandry for Cadillac and how Cadillac addresses it may provide insight for Buick fans into how GM will nurture the brand we prefer. Recommended reading!<p>[ 04-08-2002: Message edited by: ranchero ]

Jay Leno - good idea - he is a car guy and we know it! Ms. Zippy's friend! Buick has culture. Like the brands "Ford" and "Mercedes" Buick can count (well, next year) a century. These are not recent brands like Saturn or Mercury or Plymouth or Chrysler or BMW or Audi or Chevrolet or Japan. These are serious survivors whose cars have meant a lot to buyers for a <BR>©entury. Ford and Mercedes are healthy. Why isn't Buick? I've seen some ads emphasizing Chevrolet heritage - using jumping Lowrider Impalas and the song "American Band" by Grand Funk. I've seen other ads with a black sales chick selling a fat white guy an Impala because his dad had a hot one a long time ago. If tacky, plebian Chevy can sell crappy fwd Impalas, why doesn't that repected icon Buick sell based on its heritage? GM seems to be pissing away the wonderful, historic brand "Buick". I don't mind switching my loyalty and interest to Ford and Mercedes - I like 'em anyway as survivors. At least there is product in their showrooms today that I would proud to wash in my driveway.

Jeremy - here are some thoughts on Buick advertising in response to your four above questions:<BR>1 - medium: What I read & see: WSJ, CNBC. This is where I see the cars Buick used to be advertised (Mercedes, BMW, Audi, Lexus).<BR>2 - what I liked about Buick: see other thread.<BR>3 - what to see in Buick ads: not Tiger; not fun; not funny; not cute. Buick was a serious, substantial, satisfying car. If Buick can make cars that fit the bill, then I would like to see the following aspects of Buick emphasized: performance; quality; comfort; reliability; durability; manufacturer support; range. Of course Buicks don't really mean that anymore - well maybe supercharged Park Avenue. Those aspects are why doctors & bankers buy BMWs & Mercedes & why they used to buy Buicks.<BR>4 - commercials I find interesting or amusing: "How ya doin'?" - cowboy in New Jersey bar/Budweiser; "Brown to the Bone" - George Thorogood/UPS; 20 year olds seat dancing in Mitsubishi cars (original music though crappy cars I don't want to buy); "You're getting a Dell, dude".

Very nice, very expensive red 1991 convertible is available at Ron Shirley Buick/Pontiac in Stillwater, Oklahoma. 10K car. Owner is the dealer; he is a muscle car collector too.

Jeremy: When I read your introductory paragraph the phrase "Buick advertising" struck me. My first thought was "what Buick advertising?". But of course you mention that famous golfer in the tornado created minivan ad; that I've seen. And I remember that Buick does often have a full page ad in the Bugle (thanks for the support to a publication I enjoy). But "Buick advertising" is really a foreign concept to me - for all the reasons above listed by writers more articulate than me. There is simply no new car sold at a Buick dealer that offers anything I want for me to even glance at a Buick print or TV ad. I know there is nothing at Buick for me; why should I bother to pay attention to Buick advertising? Jeremy, that is sad.<P>Because I do have an answer for question #4. I am proud of the Buicks I own because they are attractive, unique, striking, quality, two door banker's hot rods. They are an '82 Riviera convertible and a '97 Riviera and they just don't make 'em like they used to.<P>And as for question #3 - I don't give a damn about the golf star. I love cars and the brand Buick. I'm interested in Buick history and heritage. Neither the golfer nor the minivan reach my Buick psyche.

This is a fascinating subject. I do not own a Reatta convertible, but have been looking for the right one for me for a couple of years. I have owned many convertibles, including Buick Riviera, Buick LeSabre, Mazda Miata and Mazda RX-7. <P>Mercedes had a thorough system for the winter hardtop for the 350SL/450SL/380SL/500SL/560SL of 1972 through 1989. This included even a top carrier/cradle for use in a garage during storage, as well as an overhead pulley/dolly mechanism for installation/removal. This was the ideal scheme, and of course Mercedes knew it and treated their customers right from the start by providing the hardtop. <P>Ford intended to have an optional hardtop available for the new body style 1994 Mustang. This product was developed, advertised, marketed but never sold.<P>Mazda makes a professional, slick hardtop for the Miata. It is sold in very limited numbers. It costs about $1,500 if purchased new, in correct body colors, when you order a new Miata. If you wait and buy the (very well fitting) top after you get the car you will pay $2,500 plus the cost of painting the primered top. This top is superior. It includes all needed Mazda original hardware plus a glass window with defroster.<P>BMW has sold an also excellent optional hardtop for their three series convertibles. This too is a quality, factory original part. I've seen it on only one car. It looks great. How many have you seen on three series BMWs? Not many - not much demand. <BR> <P>All these convertibles have sold in huge numbers in comparison to Buick Reatta. The top came with the SL. Ford and could not make the top affordable to buyers. Mazda and BMW sell very, very few. Reatta is a dead car with under 2,500 convertibles sold. The proposed production of a hard top ten plus years after Buick gave up on the car is, with all due respect to the gentleman proposing the same, not appropriate.<P>I hope I am able to find a nice Reatta convertible. This car should cost me from $8,000 to $12,000. As I was not willing to pay for a hardtop for my $21,000 Miata and wouldn't have done so for a similar or greater cost Mustang, I certainly would not for a ten plus year old Reatta. A potential Reatta would be only a summer/car show car. I would only use the car April - November; it will sleep with the motorcycle in our long winter. The top - I don't need it, I don't want it, but I do understand the interest of the owners who do use their cars all year long. Good luck, but I am quite leery of the utility to the very few owners of Reatta convertibles.

In 1986 I was working in Los Angeles with a relative of Milton Berle. One night we had dinner with Milton and his then current wife. Had I known about the Skylark I'd have asked; instead we talked about movies. He was driving a relatively recent, but quite ordinary, Volvo 240 four door sedan.