ply33

The vast majority of the original bolts on my 1933 Plymouth are marked with "DB" in a circle. It is my guess that the DB stands for "Dodge Brothers" and that the bolts were manufactured by Chrysler using tooling acquired when it bought Dodge. I am also guessing that identically marked bolts were used on Dodge Brothers vehicles. Are my guesses correct? Does the Dodge Brothers Club have a source for bolts with that marking?

Not sure about the rest of the Mopar family, but for Plymouth it fits the following: 1936 P1 and P2 1937 P3, P4 and PT50 1938 P5, P6 up to serial number 10555294, and PT57

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ken G</div><div class="ubbcode-body">To reinforce my remarks of somewhat earlier in this string, the owner's manual for my 1925 Rover says: 1. Under normal conditions, provided that the lamps and starter are used a fair amount, the battery should be kept on charge all the time during the winter and about half the day-time running in the summer. 2. Always keep the left-hand switch pointing to 'D' when the head lamps are in use. (That is the charging position; D for dynamo). 3. If the car is used for long tours in the day-time it is quite unnecessary to keep the charging switch 'on' all the time, as this will cause overcharging of the battery and consequent reduction of the acid level. Ken G, 1925 Rover 16/50 (San Francisco) </div></div> I guess England believed in more operator controls than American companies. My 1930s American car has no operator controls to change the charging rate. And I think that was typical of many/most American cars. You opened the hood and adjusted the location of the third brush on the generator to set the charging to be about right on average. That meant seasonal changes (more lights and a higher starter requirement in winter than in summer, etc.) and for the type of driving the owner typically did. Basically this system was used because it was cheap and almost adequate, not because was technically good. If they were going to add controls to adjust the charging it was just about as easy to put a voltage regulator on the thing. Which they started doing just as soon as the accessory loads (radios, etc.) and increased lighting loads made the third brush systems woefully inadequate. If your driving pattern is a number of small trips (neighborhood check out drives, etc.) with occasional long tours then you will be forever twiddling with the third brush adjustment. Or you will set it on the high side for the short trips and then run your lights on the tours. But you can hide a electronic regulator under the cover where the judges can't see it and forget about actually using the third brush. Works for both long and short trips. Summer and winter. Day and night.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: nearchoclatetown</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Do a google, there's one online. </div></div> Looks like you can browse it on line or download a PDF of the 1911 edition: http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&...=result#PPP1,M1

I don't know if DeSoto and Plymouth used the same power lighting or not, but if they did, the 1936-39 used a 20 amp light fuse while the 1940-42 (sealed beam) used a 30 amp light fuse.

In my opinion the system of third brush regulation is a very poor match for a touring car: Long sitting and in season weekend local trips with occasional long tours just don't fit into the originally anticipated usage pattern. So I hid an electronic regulator under the brush cover (a fully reversible modification). See: http://www.ply33.com/Repair/voltreg

Interesting that you are attempting to "return" this car to a condition that never existed in the past. You might find people more knowledgeable about that in other forums that are focused on "updating", "modifying" or "improving" cars rather than this one which is oriented toward restoration. ========================== restore |riˈstôr| verb [ trans. ] bring back (a previous right, practice, custom, or situation); reinstate : the government restored confidence in the housing market. See note at recover . • return (someone or something) to a former condition, place, or position : the effort to restore him to office isn't working. • repair or renovate (a building, work of art, vehicle, etc.) so as to return it to its original condition : the building has been lovingly restored. • give (something previously stolen, taken away, or lost) back to the original owner or recipient : the government will restore land and property to those who lost it through confiscation. DERIVATIVES restorable adjective restorer noun ORIGIN Middle English : from Old French restorer, from Latin restaurare ‘rebuild, restore.’

This is not going to help much but on Plymouth there were massive changes to the rear axle design in 1933 and in 1936. And, at least for the 1936 changes, I think that the taper might have been modified. So even if you get a number for a 1940, there is the chance that it won't be the same taper as you find on a 1934. However all the above is from hearsay (I haven't personally had to do much with my rear end but have heard some from a fellow that was trying to piece together something for his 1933 based on a bunch of junk yard parts).

The door pillar tag is the serial number for the car and is what Chrysler tracked the car by. If you desire you can send that number to the Chrysler Historical Collection a long with some money and get the "build card" for you vehicle. See: http://www.ply33.com/Misc/buildcard Each plant and line of cars had a separate sequence of serial numbers so you can tell that plant your car was built in and about when in the model year it was built just from looking up the serial number. Unfortunately my archive of information is geared around Plymouths so I can't help you in identifying the plant. I am not familiar with the information on your cowl tag but on earlier cars there was a body number number tag that sounds like it served a similar purpose to the tag you have.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Skyking</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dave@Moon</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Last month's sales figures had Toyota within less than 1% of overtaking General Motors for #1. </div></div> Dave, other than the Prius, the US has cars that are getting the same miliage as Toyota but the people are still not buying them. The Lexus LX, a giant SUV that gets 14 mpg shows sales that doubled in the first 5 months. How do you figure that?? Our government should put a quota to how many cars can be sold here in the states. Our economy is getting killed. Something has to change............This is going to be survival for all of us and our children. </div></div> "Our government should put a quota to how many cars can be sold here in the states." Whatever happened to the concept of capitalism? If a company fails to make good decisions it should be allowed to go out of business. If you leap to the salvation of any company that is "too big to fail" then you create a "moral hazard". Sarcasm: But I forget socialism is okay for big business (wall street financiers and big businesses get bailouts when they screw up), just not for individuals (who should know better about making ends meet). <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Reatta Man</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Dave, Once again, your data only fits your conclusions. The data Toyota is reporting is for OUT OF WARRANTY battery replacement. They can hide the replacement numbers within the warranty. And other problems are easily found on various Web sites. But, I won't play the game where you respond back with your data and name calling. The readers of this forum are very smart and they can see what is going on around them. Now, back to fighting California wildfires. Joe </div></div> Hmmmm. And should we car about in warranty replacement rates? That cost is built into the price of the car and comes out of the manufacturer's profits. Not sure about batteries, but generally if something has a crappy design it will cost the manufacturer a lot in warranty costs which they either cover in a higher sales price or they lose money on the sale. And if it is a crappy design that has a high cost to cover the warranty it is likely that it will also be failing a lot after the warranty period. Given a low out of warranty failure rate, I would be surprised to find a high in-warranty failure rate. For the record: I am prejudiced as we have a 2001 Prius (purchased in the fall of 2000) and a 2004 Prius (purchase in the fall of 2003). Both cars have been very good on repairs as long as the tires are kept at a high enough pressure.

My 1940-53 Chilton's says that idle vacuum should be steady at between 17 and 21 for an engine in good condition. I assume that your 1929 Oakland has an updraft carburetor which I am not familiar with. I do know that on the later down draft carburetors there is often a vacuum port for spark advance that comes off near the throttle plate. You do not want to use that port to supply vacuum to your wipers. You want to directly connect to the manifold. Also, most cars prior to around 1930 used vacuum operated fuel pumps. So I assume your fuel tank is vacuum operated. Plymouth used suction from the oil pump to run the fuel pump but most cars used manifold vacuum. I assume your Oakland does that as well. If your vacuum line to the wiper comes off the same fitting as the one to your fuel pump and if your fuel pump has leaks you might be losing vacuum there too.

Wiper motors should be lubricated from time to time. The official procedure on the first half of this page: http://www.ply33.com/Repair/wiper should be all you need. If the wiper was rebuilt in the last couple of years the second procedure should not be needed. Actually, I am surprised that you would have a problem after only 2 years. You should be able to a decade or two. I'd also check that you have no vacuum leaks and that you are getting decent manifold vacuum (engine in good tune, etc.) before going too much further.

A good drive-line shop in your area should be able to make you up a driveshaft with modern style universal joints that will bolt to your existing transmission/parking brake and rear end flanges.

The 36 HP 1957 VW Beetle I owned in the 1970s consistently got mid 30s on the highway. When it dropped below 28 MPG in town I knew it was time to give it a tune up.

Lets see. Choices on getting to work are with gas at $4.07 at the local filling station and 14 miles round trip to work: 1933 Plymouth at 16 MPG ($3.56/day) 2001 or 2004 Prius at 45 MPG ($1.26/day) Public transport at $3.50/day and at twice as much time spent as other alternatives. Bicycle at $0.00/day and I get my exercise too. I generally use the bicycle. By the way, I am compulsive on record keeping so those mileages are my actuals not guesses.

Using the engine number for registration purposes was pretty standard in many states in the old days. Chrysler used the serial number off the door post for their tracking. If you lose the engine, you can find the original engine number stamped on the driver side frame rail at the rear wheel kick up. At least you can on Plymouths and I'd be surprised if that were different for Dodge. Also, you can send off some money and your serial number to the Chrysler Historical collection and they will send you a copy of the "build card" which should show the original body and engine numbers for the car. That might be enough to allow you to convince the DMV that the car is the one even if the engine has been swapped.

A lot of those canisters with the replaceable insert element take a NAPA 1040 cartridge. However to be safe you should either take the old one with you or make some measurements when you go down to your local "good" (not the big chain bubble wrap place) auto supply store to match it up. The good news is that it seems that those replacement elements for most variations Chrysler used are still available at your local "good" auto supply store. Now, if you have the sealed, throwaway canister that would be a different matter as the last manufacturer for those stopped making them about 5 years ago. Those show up on eBay and there is a fellow in the Plymouth Owners Club who makes (for a steep price) a housing that looks like the sealed canister that opens up to accept a modern filter.

Not sure what kind of generator and regulation you have. If your car is from the 1930s or earlier then it could have third brush regulation of current. And if it is from the early 1930s or earlier then the only regulation probably has is third brush current regulation. With a third brush system the generator attempts to put out relatively constant current. An external voltage regulation stage could bring that down some but basically you still have the generator attempting to be a constant current device. Unless the connection between the generator and the battery is good (the battery acts as a reservoir to store charge) this means that the system voltage will run high. (Voltage = current * resistance, so high resistance to the battery will mean higher voltage out of the generator assuming constant current.) So if you are running a third brush generator, verify that your connections and wiring between the generator and battery are good. If you have external regulation you should also verify that the field wire between the generator and the regulator is good (not shorting to ground, etc.). Edit: If you have a battery that has developed high internal resistance then this may also be a problem with a third brush regulated system.

The Chrysler Kew Six was basically a Plymouth assembled in England with local upholstery and trim. It was fitted a small bore version of the US engine. Your engine number prefix of PEX indicates that it is an export version of the 1934 PE engine and the low sequence number (numbers in each series started at 1000) indicates that it was a very early PE engine. I believe that the bearings in that engine are the same as the US version. In which case they should be the same from 1933 through, if I recall correctly, 1940. I am going by memory here as my books are at home. And my books have precious little on the details of the export engines. This type of detail is often best determined by looking at the parts book to see which parts are specified as export only. If I am correct then the bearings should be readily available, at least in the US. The 1933 and 1934 engines are a bit different than later versions in that they do not have the water distribution tube nor the full length water jackets and as a result the block is a little more narrow. So while the oil pan and valve cover gaskets are the same for 1933 through the 1960s (for some Dodge trucks) the head gasket is unique to 1933 and 34. Despite these minor details mechanical parts are generally easy to find. My guess is that there will be at least on person on the Plymouth Owners Club web site forum that could give more detail. However getting on that forum is a bit of a chore as their response to some forum spam a while back is a manual approval process for new members.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rick Hoover</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Todd, Go to www.RestorationStuff.com in CA. They offer a Zerk grease gun adapter end for $4.50 Ph. 1-800-306-7008 </div></div> Thanks!

Rick, I have been using a standard "Alemite Hydraulic" end on my grease gun to service the Zerk (pre-1934) fittings on my car. Unfortunately it does not always make a good fit/seal and because of that there are a number of fittings I have replaced with newer fitting. Do you know where I could find an adaptor for the old Zerk fitting? Thanks!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jay Wolf</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You will have to use a static balancer. You might have to make it yourself. You need to ballance the tire, rim and wheel as a unit or your wasting your time. Depending on how you drive the car and the tires you may be wasting your time anyway. I ballanced the Lucus 34x3.5's on my 1916 Elgin but found ballance wasn't the issue, the tires were eggs. </div></div> I suspect Jay is correct for lots of us. Last year when I got new 17-5.25 tires I checked the radial and lateral run out on my wheels. They were pretty good. I had trouble finding specifications for those numbers but my wheel run out was within that specified for a late model Jeep. So I figure they were okay. Then I checked each wheel on a bubble balancer and all of them were pretty close to perfect for static balance. But when I put the tires and tubes on the balance went way off. I had to use a huge amount of weight on all the wheel/tire assemblies. I figure that the specialty sized tires probably use a lot of hand work in their manufacture and that they are not as uniform in weight and shape as high volume tires for newer cars. From what I remember from my statics and dynamics class many decades ago, static balance for a tall narrow tire should be good enough. A wider tire of smaller diameter needs good dynamic balance. But a tall narrow wheel should be okay with static balance alone and you can do that on the car or on a bubble balancer.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sdbraverman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A friend had an experience similar to Peter's with a 1930 Franklin years ago using silicone fluid. His brakes started to self-apply after driving for a few hours. At the time we attributed the problem to the greater volume of fluid in an early 30s car as compared to a more modern car. We thought that the fluid was expanding due to altitude or heat and causing the brakes to lock up. Does anyone have a more solid answer as to why this happened, and is anyone else using silicone fluid in a large early car? </div></div> 1933 is not all that early, but the last brake rebuild on my 1933 Plymouth was in 1997/98 when everything, including all tubing along the chassis, was replaced. I used silicone fluid. Other than the initial issue of getting all the air out I have had no problems. All I have had to do since then has been minor adjustments to compensate for brake shoe wear. My car has a hydraulic brake light switch. So far I have experienced no issues with that switch and the silicone fluid.

From <span style="font-style: italic">Headlamp Work Brought to a Focus</span>, Automobile Trade Journal, December 1932: <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Simply cleaning the reflector will often double, and sometimes TRIPLE, the efficiency of the headlamps. The reflectors are silver plated, and are very easily scratched. For this reason they should be very gently polished. It is possible to clean them satisfactorily with a mixture of alcohol and lampblack. The mixture is spread over the surface of the reflector with a soft cloth, and then wiped off with absorbent cotton after drying. The wiping should always be done from the center of the reflector to the edge, and never with a circular motion.</div></div>

Do you have a glass bowl fastened to the bottom of the fuel pump? If so that is the "sediment bowl" and passes for the fuel filter on the typical older car. It does a better job of separating out water than modern in line filters but a worse job at filtering out dirt. The reason it is glass is so you can look at it and see if it needs to be taken apart and cleaned.