ply33
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Posts posted by ply33
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I don't think the 3rd brush setup was a much of a problem back in the day as you were driving the car daily on a pretty regular schedule, say to & from work, so the charging requirements were much the same from day to day and only needed adjusting with the seasons (colder & more headlight use in winter needed a different setting that summer, etc.).
But for a collector car that is not doing the same drive every day the situation is different. If you are planning on driving the vehicle a lot in a mix of local and road trips, that hidden electronic voltage regulator that Peterson made is a really great change. For short local trips you want a fairly high charge rate to replenish the charge lost when cranking. For road trips you want a much lower charge rate. Except at night when you want a higher output. With a straight 3rd brush setup for current regulation you end up having to adjust it all the time and/or play with the headlights to keep the battery charging about right. With that regulator you just get in and drive.
Assuming he is still around making them, I highly recommend getting one.
It is one of the two modifications away from stock on my old car, completely reversible, that I am really glad I did it about 20 or 25 years ago. The other modification from stock for me is getting quartz-halogen bulbs for my headlights, again totally reversible. I'd do LED headlight “bulbs” but I am not aware of any that properly focus in my bulb & reflector style headlight.
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This may be totally off the wall, but there are voltage converters made for golf carts that can take anything from 12v up 48v on the input and give you regulated 12v out. They are used to provide 12v power for lights and other things on the cart that use regular automotive voltages. A quick search turns up this one: https://www.amazon.com/Cllena-Automatic-Converter-Regulator-Waterproof/dp/B08KZS81Y1 (I have no opinion on how good this one is or if there are better ones available). If you can find 12v bulbs that will work in your headlights then maybe one of these converters could then be used to power them.
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3 hours ago, JACK M said:
Are there rights and lefts?
Parts book only shows front and rear and indicated two each are needed per car, so the left & right are the same.
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49 minutes ago, Mark Gregush said:
Number is not going to tell most of us anything. What year? Front or back? How about fixing your post and add that information using the edit button. Most of us call them just backing plates.
Chrysler part 657449 is the front brake backing plate for Plymouth passenger cars from 1936 through 1942. Plymouth commercial cars (trucks) used a different part. I don't have a Dodge parts book but it would not surprise me if they were the same.
edit: PS, the 1936-48 Plymouth parts book calls them “Wheel Brake Support and Adjusting PIN Assembly”. Backing plate is definitely less of a mouthful.
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Not sure about the PJ, but new shoes are not available for the earlier PC, PD, PE & PF. A brake and friction shop, the place local garages send stuff to be rebuilt, to get them rebuilt will be your best bet for relining the shoes. There are Internet and mail order places that can do that too, but I prefer to work with people I can talk to over the counter.
The hoses and cylinder rubber parts should be still available. Most you can get from your local auto supply but the usual vintage Mopar suppliers can help if your local shops require things to be in their computer.
I don't have a '35 PJ parts book so that is a bit of a hole in my cross reference database but if the part is the same for '34 and '36 it is likely to good for '35. My cross reference data is available at https://www.ply33.com/Parts/numeric and might help you find modern numbers for your old parts.
You will not get good brake performance unless the curvature of the shoes matches the curvature of the drums. In the old days repair shops had brake shoe arcing equipment to do this. With the hazard of dust from that operation and the advent of disc brakes that day is long gone. I found I could get a pretty good job done by using a roll of sticky backed sandpaper. Stick some around the inside of a drum then rub the shoes that will be used with that drum unit there is smooth continuous contact. Important: Each shoe needs to be arced or fitted to the drum it will be used in, especially if the drums have been turned.
With new or relined shoes you will need to do a "major adjustment". The best way to do that is with some specialized tools. The original factory tools were from Miller and those seem to be very rare. AAMCO made a different tool that can still be found but the prices are now astronomical. If you are not trying to make money on shop rates (i.e. doing it yourself and time is no problem) you can get close using an iterative procedure as written up at https://www.ply33.com/Repair/brakes
edit: p.s. I found that a home made pressure bleeder makes a big difference in getting the brakes bled properly. I've done it with the two person operation but that is slower. Some people have luck with the vacuum bleeder kits but I have not had as much luck with those.
p.p.s. Getting a factory service manual will be a big help. I don't have one for '35 but they should be available. If not the 1936-42 factory service manual should be available and the cars are mechanically very similar so it should be okay to use that.
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1 hour ago, JFranklin said:
Maybe aim the mirror to bounce the offending light out the back window.
I have a cousin who, at least years ago, was very good at getting the driver behind to dim their lights using that technique. I was never able to get the aim right to use that technique.
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41 minutes ago, Frank DuVal said:
I can't believe the number of a$$#%^*& on here who purposely drive around with their high beams on! All civility is gone from your brains? You are the only important person on the road? And we wonder why "young people" feel so entitled these days. They learn for others showing how to do it. ❗ Sure they may seem to be no brighter than the awful ones made today, does that mean you need to be mean? ❓
As to the "no one flashes me so it must be OK", just how am I supposed to flash you when you are behind me on a two lane no passing road for miles? ❓
Are you, like me, waiting for the US rules to change so we can get adaptive driving beam (ADB) headlights?
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10 minutes ago, rocketraider said:
Reminds us that there are powers far beyond our comprehension at work.
While there are things beyond our current comprehension, a solar eclipse isn't one.
The first successful prediction of one in written history is over 2000 years old. For much of the time since then those who studied these things could state when one would occur but not exactly where. Since Newton figured out classical rules for gravitation, the predictions started getting better and better with regards to exactly where especially now that the heavy number crunching is done with computers..
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In that era Plymouth used right hand threaded wheel hub bolts (as the parts book called lug bolts) on all wheels, original Chrysler part number 393984. The left hand threaded fasteners were used on some earlier cars and then again later starting in 1940. That Chrysler part 393984 is still available: Check out Napa 6411554 or Dorman 610-018
Your best bet for the wiper motor(s) would be to have them rebuilt.
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20 hours ago, Matt Harwood said:
My second thought was to do what @AB-Buff did with his Lincoln and have James Peterson build me an electronic regulator inside the original regulator box. Since I now have a spare, I figure I'll send it to him and have him solve the problem that way. I can remove the third brush with the generator on the car and all should be good from here on out. We'll see how it works, but that's the plan.
Is James Peterson still around and making these? If so that is great news.
For what it is worth, I installed one of his electronic voltage regulators in my '33 Plymouth nearly 25 years ago and it is still working perfectly. Totally hidden and the modification is totally reversible if you decide to go back to stock 3rd brush operation. It makes the charging system work just like that of a car from the later era equipped with electronic regulators. You still have to mind the maximum output of the generator but if you are otherwise stock that is not an issue.
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3 minutes ago, keiser31 said:
Engine number on the left front side of the engine on the flat pad just below the cylinder head. Probably also found on the left rear of the frame rail near the rise in front of the rear axle. Here is my frame rail on my 1931 Dodge.
Chrysler seems to have moved the location on the frame from time to time and maybe from make to make. On my '33 Plymouth the engine number is stamped between the running board supports on the driver side.
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This may, or may not help: https://www.ply33.com/Repair/tempgauge
There are also professional repair shops that can do the job. Or do you need the entire assembly including the dash unit?
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6 hours ago, 1wonton said:
Much to my surprise it retracted 3 inches and worked perfectly and is so powerful I could not hold the shaft back with both hands!
Back of the napkin math: In an early post you showed the diameter to be 11 inches. Assuming the flange around the outside is 1/2 inch, you have 10 inches of working diameter or 78.6 square inches of area. Assume you apply 15” of vacuum or around 7.3 psi. That pressure differential will result in about 575 pounds of force on the rod. I am not surprised you couldn’t hold it back with both hands.
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505 is a plausible trim code for Plymouths in the 1930s. Unfortunately, I have never seen a list of paint and trim codes for the 1933 Plymouths so I can't say for sure.
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My reprint of a 1931 Chilton Multi-Guide shows both the 1928 Whippet 96 (4 cylinder) and 98 (6 cylinder) as using a GJ-57-86 timing chain.
Looks like that same chain was used on the 1927 Whippet 96 but I don't see any other vehicles in that list that goes through 1930 as using that Chilton cross reference number.
Sorry I couldn’t be of more help.
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If only short pieces are needed, say less than a couple of feet, shoe laces are the same weave and can be used. You can work it open or more closed to cover a (small) range of required diameters.
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Wow! Restarting a thread/topic that is over 20 years old.
The 1928-33 Plymouth Master Parts List shows the Model U for domestic US used either a Carter 130-S or a 130-A.
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The brake drums and hubs are riveted together into a single assembly. For front an incorrectly adjusted wheel bearing could allow the drum to come out of alignment. For the rear, an improperly tightened axle shaft nut would do the same.
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I don't know the answer to that but do recall that the '66 Dodge truck factory service manual I once had showed an oil bath air cleaner that was for use in dusty areas. But that was for a pickup truck back in the days when a pickup truck was not a life style statement vehicle for driving to the grocery store.
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1 hour ago, JV Puleo said:
10.11.6. That's El Capitan. The problem is further complicated by the fact that I use a graphic design software for my real work that will not run on a later machine than that. I own that but it's now only available as a subscription service that would cost at least half of what I make in a year (It's part-time and only for a few select customers. I'm way past the point of working for anyone I find trying.)
Actually, I do my design work in the graphic program but that's only drawings to work out dimensional problems. I doubt anyone else would even understand my drawings.
Sounds like a situation similar to my wife's. She is semi-retired from graphic design. I say semi because she is retired except for one old client that really likes her work and occasionally sends her jobs. Her work setup is a Mac with 10.13 configured "just so" with the last version of the design suite that one could purchase before the company forced people on to a cloud subscription service.
Unfortunately that old Mac died recently. So she got another Mac of the same vintage off eBay for a couple hundred dollars and we were able to wipe it back to its original OS 10.8 to assure no malware, etc. Then install OS 10.12 from Apple, upgrade that to 10.13 via the Apple Store, then migrate her old computer's stuff from the Time Machine backup. She doesn’t have a big budget nowadays what with only an occasional job from one client so spending big bucks for a new machine that would not run her old design purchased software made no sense. A couple hundred dollars was within reason though.
Amazingly, Apple actually has disk images and instructions to clean install operating systems going back to 10.7 10.7 Lion was released in 2010 which is quite a long time ago for computers and operating systems.
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31 minutes ago, JV Puleo said:
. . . but thus far none that I've looked at are compatible with my old Mac computers . . .
What vintage Mac do you have?
Just poking around, it looks like FreeCAD can run on MacOS 10.12 Sierra. And MacOS 10.12 Sierra can run on late-2009 to mid-2010 Mac computers which are pretty old in computer years.
OpenSCAD can run on an even older version of MacOS but it looks like it may be more of a progammer's hacking tool than something for people just wanting to design parts.
I have no experience with either of those. The only CAD program I had was back in the Pre-MacOS X days running on a PowerPC Mac from a company now defunct. I guess I ought to see what it takes to learn enough of a CAD program to try printing some parts. But I seem to keep busy enough with other projects.
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1 hour ago, John348 said:
The computers started popping up in 1975 and have been pretty much in every vehicle for the past 44 years, so it's not like it's anything new.
So true.
I spent 40 years in embedded software and firmware development so I have some knowledge of computers.
The '82 Plymouth I owned definitely had a computer but the setup was pretty simple. If I recall correctly they called it something like an engine control unit but it was definitely a computer.
1991 I purchased a new Jeep Cherokee and, of course, got a copy of the factory service manuals for it. When I was reading through the manuals my impression was that the Cherokee was more of a rolling computer network more than a traditional car. A bunch of processing units connected with CAN busses, etc.
I think when they started putting fancy displays and navigation into the passenger compartment is when people thought it started, but computers have been in cars for many decades now.
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You are looking for an 1158 bulb (dual contact bayonet base, 21cp for brake filament, 3cp for tail light). In the Chrysler parts books that would have a part number of 142449. If the pins were staggered (called “indexed” instead of “bayonet”) you would be looking for an 1154 bulb. See https://www.ply33.com/Backmatter/lightbulbs for a list of bulbs that might be useful for you vintage Plymouth.
A quick check shows you can still get them through O'Reilly Auto Parts, NAPA Auto Parts and probably other local and chain auto supply stores.
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6 hours ago, 36humpback said:
I finally got my engine running. I put VP 110 racing gas in it as it is supposedly leaded gas. It has an octane rating of 107. Will it hurt my engine? Should I go to regular gas and add "lead additives"? Any help would be appreciated. Bob
Having an higher octane than required should not damage the engine. The main thing it will do is lighten your wallet.
The L-6 engines used in Chrysler product cars all had hardened exhaust valve inserts from the factory and do not need leaded gas. As a rule of thumb, the octane required is often the same as the compression ratio, so your pre-WW2 car the cheapest, lowest octane gas you can find at a normal gas station is more than good enough.
If the rubber components in your fuel system are really, really old (like before 1990) then they may be damaged by some of the additives in modern gas. You can get rebuild kits compatible with modern gas for your fuel pump and you can replace the flex hose to the fuel pump. Some carburetor kits had rubber tips on the float valve, if your car had that then you will want to replace that too. But if the car has been driven at all regularly in the last 20 or 30 years these things have probably already been taken care of.
Basically, buy the cheapest gas you can find and drive the car.
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The Car Which Shall Not Be Named III (1935 Lincoln K)
in Our Cars & Restoration Projects
Posted
That looks like a different approach to the problem than Mr. Peterson took. Peterson’s regulator fit inside the generator and replaced the third brush for powering the field coils. Nice smooth operation and you use the original cutout or, by cutting a jumper to change the voltage set point, a cutout that has a diode replacing the original contacts.
The one linked to looks like it is a replacement cutout that toggles the output on and off based on the system voltage. I guess it would work but the videos show it switching between discharge and charge periodically which would bother me. And I wonder how high the no-current voltage generation inside the generator might get. I am not an expert but I’d want some assurance that the insulation on the armature and field coils, etc. can stand up to that abuse.
If @AB-Buff can successfully reverse engineer Peterson’s design I think will will be a nicer solution.