NTX5467

"Frugal" is when a person bought a new 2005 LeSabre Limited rather than a new Cadillac DeVille as the Buick 3800 V-6 was a 4.5quart oil change rather than the 7quart oil change of the more expensive Cadillac Northstar V-8. Grand parents (on "fixed income") and young drivers (with little income) can appreciate the cost differences in such maintenance items. Regards, NTX5467

In reading on the Evans website, it is a neat product and one which could work well in our old car orientations. TNEN I read what it would take to convert to their product. Kind of made the (at whatever change frequency one is currently on) coolant change look easy and low-cost to me, as a somewhat frugal person. One disadvantage is that anybody which might buy one of Jay's cars would have enough resources to keep it or change it back to normal stuff. BTAIM Enjoy! NTX5467

After reading and thinking about the article, one thing is certain . . . the "talking and gaining information stage" is just beginning. As we know, nothing in the government happens over-night, usually. Especially iif somebody's watching what is going on. In this case, I certainly suspect that SEMA will be a big partner in any discussions. Many people who talk about the federal EPA forget that Richard Nixon signed the legislation initiating the EPA way back then. At that time, CA was strangling itself in exhaust fumes. Remember smog alert days when it was deemed unhealthy to be outside? MUCH worse than any recent "Ozone Action Day" we have ever endured in Texas or otherwise. Many large metro/industrialized areas of the USA were headed in the same direction. That's in respect to the "air", with similar orientations on "water" and "earth". Something had to be done and Nixon started it. ONE key orientation not to be considered was what it cost or cost effectiveness. By 1966, California Air Resources Board was in full operation and setting vehicle emissions standards for vehicles sold/registered in CA. Which generated a lot of legislation to ensure violators had no loopholes to sneak through. Even to what equipment could be used to repair/upgrade road-going vehicles which were over 25-35 model years old. There did not appear to be a lot of opposition as we were in a different world back then, where CA citizens were the ones harming themselves so they went along with cleaning things up. At least there was no mention of opposition in the publications back then. Other than cars, CA air quality issues tended to greatly affect the metal chroming industry. In a time when getting automotive parts chrome plated was a big deal (including some hot rod crankshafts), these new standards tended to end that industry in CA, by observation. So chromers had to comply or move out of CA. The Federal EPA and CARB had the authority to set standards and fine those who did not comply, from their very first days. In most cases, the initial standards had periodic tightening of the regulations, too. Sometimes, it seemed that just as one standard was being achieved, they "moved the goal posts", which brought more areas into non-compliance, several times. As if the EPA was doing this on purpose, but it turned out that the tighter standards had been programmed to happen many years prior, sequentially. It should also be noted that the Federal EPA was designed to be non-political. To protect the citizens' health and welfare as it had become very evident local municipalities or states would not do it themselves (other than CA, which started to do so several years earlier). Just some thoughts and observations, NTX5467

Show me where that subject is written in the LATimes or similar. Plus the history of that orientation. Now, what might be happening is that, like many European large cities (as Paris), the limit access to some of the inner-city areas by license plate last number and/or model year of the vehicle. This has been going on for about 10 years now. BUT, considering how "car-centric" the car culture is and has been in CA, what results might be something like that, BUT how many people really drive their vintage cars in the alleged "off limits" areas on a regular basis? Besides . . . the car culture in CA has been dealing with carburetors and such which have a CARB approval code on it. Such codes are listed openly on the Holley and Edelbrock websites, for example, and have been for years. Not to forget the random emissions checks they used to do, where the offending vehicles are parked until they can be compliant again. Just some thoughts, NTX5467

The peanut butter guy is trying to save .001 cent on every container they seal. Makes him more money, plus the stockholders . . . none of which probably use that stuff. Just gently slit it down the middle and peel to the sides. Condensers seemto be failing a lot lately, by observation. New Old Stock is better than New Replacement Stock. NTX5467

Thanks for the reply and comments. Up here in the States, the Buick 3800 was used in Buick Rivieras and Park Avenues, plus all of the mid-size fwd platforms, plus several years in Camaros and Firebirds. Toward the later 1990s, there were even kits to put on a factory-style supercharger on normal 3800s, too. Plus the special models with it (Regal GS and the several Pontiac Grand Prix high-perf cars). It was in the various performance 3800 websites that I saw much about the electronics related of the engines. As good as the 3800 SC is, it exists in the shadow of the Turbo GN cars. Again, your car looks great with the tasteful wire wheels and gold-stripe (Vogue?) tires. Take care, NTX5467

How long has this been going on? If it bogs in every gear at the same general rpm, hot or cold, that might well be an ignition coil which will only produce so much output voltage to fire the plugs. How long has it been since the air cleaner was serviced? Might also get a wrench and tap the areas on the muffler listening for a loose or mis-placed internal baffle? Just curious, NTX5467

On the block flushing, one time in my younger and inquisitive days, I decided to see if I could get a better flush by removing the thermostat and thermostat housing, to use that location to introduce the flush water into, directly into the block that way, using the lower radiator hose for the drain. I then also put the fresh coolant in through there, too. Remember, too, that the water pump level is pretty much 1/2 up the engine, so that much coolant remains when the radiator or lower radiator hose stops draining. End result, I got only the normal amount of coolant in the system for a good bit of additional work. I might have gotten a better flush that way, but little else. End result, last time I did that. For the record, this was on my '77 Camaro 305 which I bought new and maintained the coolant level/protection at least to factory specs. Just some thoughts and experiences, NTX5467

The drain plugs on the side of the block are just for that, draining coolant, yet there can still be some residual coolant in the rear corners of the water jacket as the engines are usually tilted rearward when they are in the vehicle. While they can "flow clean", there can still be residual sediment in those rear areas of the water jackets. Which means that the only way to get that out is to remove the core plugs on the side of the block and flush things out completely. A messy job for sure, but that's the only real way (on an older engine) that you can get things as clean as possible. Just have new brass plugs to replace them. IF you used a chemical flush product, it will remove rust and scale (to varying degrees). On an engine block, no big deal. On those core plugs and heater core, where the rust and scale accumulate, that accumulation can degrade the core surface and eat into it. Removing that scale with chemicals also means that thinner metal results, as the rust will seal those areas until it is removed or eats through them. A coolant-water mixture will find those weak areas quicker than plain water will, by observation. So, best to get ahead of the situation by removing those side plugs and washing everything out, if possible. If they have been changed, it will be obvious by their color. Usually, the radiator will hold about 1/2 the volume of the total cooling system. draining, flushing, and refilling with about 2 gallons of coolant (NOT 50-50 coolant, but non-diluted) will can usually result in coolant protection to -20 degrees F and possibly -34 degrees F. When the engine is cold, the coolant level should be at the "COLD" level on a cross-flow radiator, which makes it look pretty empty. As the engine temperature increases, the coolant level will rise as the heated coolant expands, such that when at or near operating temperature, the coolant level should be just below the filler neck on the radiator tank. Any more will be pushed out of the overflow pipe. Yes, when the coolant temp is at operating temperature, it will be pressurized to about 16psi, which makes the radiator hoses "hard" to the touch. This is normal. The infra-red "heat guns" are available in the US at discount places as "Harbor Freight". There are two heat ranges, 500 degrees F and 1000 degrees F. All have switches to read Centigrade, too. Usually in the $35.00 USD range. Possibly some places like that in Europe? You can use these "point and shoot" temperature readers for many vehicle diagnostic things. You can check the temperatures of the side of the engine block for temperature variations, plus the thermostat area to see when the thermostat opens, checking various parts of the radiator core for temperature variations, plus many other things. A good diagnostic investment. Can also be used around the house to look for heat escaping around windows in the winter, too. In automotive diagnostics, the main thing you are looking for is unusual temperature variations, not only for specific temperatures. For example, an over-heat issue can be because the bottom half of a cross-flow radiator can be clogged with sediment, although it looks normal looking down the filler neck opening. The bottom part of the radiator core will be cold, as the upper section is hot, yet it is the bottom section air flow which the fan clutch "sees", which governs when the fan clutch works or does not work, so engine temp soars above 3/4 gauge as a result. On the side of the engine block, the parts with good coolant flow will approximate coolant temperature as those parts with lessened flow will be a good bit hotter in comparison. ONE word of caution . . . do NOT open the radiator cap on an engine where the radiator hoses are "hard", meaning the system is pressurized. ONLY do that after the engine is cooled and the hoses can be easily compressed (as in "no pressure). Take care, NTX5467

I'm not sure how the European specs referenced might compare to the USA OEM specs, but in the USA, at the OEM level, the "green" coolant was what we used in the 1960s. Some brands might have had different colors, but they were all of the same chemical make-up (i.e., ethylene glycol). One detriment of ethylene glycol is that it does not like the solder in the heater and radiator cores of cooling systems, causing it to degrade with time. So that coolant has additives in it to prevent/lessen that situation. But as the additive package degrades with time, the coolant must be replaced for best radiator/heater core longevity. The additive packages were upgraded in the earlier 1960s to be compatible with aluminum engine parts (i.e., the aluminum blocks and/or cylinder heads which came into use back then). When GM introduced its long-life Dexcool coolants, it had a unique color and the caps on the plastic bottles it was sold in had a similar color. Ford and Chrysler followed with their own tweaks in coolants with similar properties, with the Valvoline GO-2 coolants generally following the Ford coolants. As I recall, there were three OAT-type coolants back then? As the Valvoline GO-2 was possibly the best to change-over a cooling system than the others, but as the bulk of my experiences (at the dealership level) were related to Dexcool, that's what I know the most about. ONE thing about the newer coolants is that they are designed to operate in a closed cooling system. With a coolant recovery jug that is also where the radiator cap is located. Nothing readily-exposed to "open air" as the 1960s-style cooling systems were. Trying to use these coolants in an older vehicle is asking for trouble. If there is some brand you are considering, you might Google that brand's products and look to see what they offer and look at their Material Data sheets to see if they might comply with the GM specs. You might also Google the GM spec to see what comes up. There is a brand of coolant which is not ethylene glycol or Dexcool which can replace them. I don't recall the name, but one of its users is Jay Leno, who uses it in all of the vehicles he owns. Using it requires some prep-flushes, too. It is something like $100.00 USD per gallon, but is much better in many respects. I thought about using it in my cars, but it would be cost-prohibitive for me, even if the long-term costs were less. Hopefully this might help guide you in your searches, NTX5467

My apologies for mentioning the www.RegalGS.org website. Since I looked at it a good while back, it has now become a Facebook group page rather than the full-blown forum-based website it used to be. Where the owners were obviously "30-somethings" with smaller families living in the suburbs, not much different that depicted in the Buick Regal GS "Supercharged Family" television spots. Many of these owners, by observation, needed to fix their own stuff rather than go do to the dealership and get it done for them. Hence the knowledge they shared on how to do things, knowledge from the "school of hard knocks" rather than a "manual". Many drag raced their daily-driver cars, too, which led to their knowledge of the Buick 3800 V-6's "guts". But what my Google search also turned up was the presence of many Buick 3800-specific website on how to increase the power of their engines for racing purposes. Some which had been around since the later 1990s when the Buick 3800SC evolved into being. In the process of their racing activities, there might be certain blocks which are better than others, so that's where the "engine ID" and "block ID" come into play. Where to look at the block to find such information. The same information you might need in Oz for the paperwork. In the USA, the same information can be used to track stolen vehicles and parts thereof. Perhaps the searches I found (knowing about them from times past) eluded your searches as they are not "Riviera-specific" and usually do not appear in normal Buick websites? Take care, NTX5467

There used to be a fwd Regal GS forum. When I found it in the 1990s, I was impressed with the youth of the posters and interesting way they had of fixing things (like the digital display in the auto a/c control panels). Of course, those Regal GS cars had supercharged 3800s in them. That might be a fruitful place to look? IF the SC3800s are similar to other GM engines, they might have the engine ID stamping, plus a block casting number on the side of the block, possibly with a date code there too. On the stamping codes, many have the last part of the VIN nearby. The stamp code identifies the specs and application the engine was machined for, with the VIN stamping identifying the specific vehicle the engine was factory-installed into. I have not verified if the same things actually exist for the V-6s, but I suspect they might. Looking in non-Riviera-specific websites, other than the one listed, might yield better results. Only ONE GM engine plant built the later 3800s, which was in Flint, MI and on the sight of the larger Buick assembly operations there. Great looking Riviera! NTX5467

There can be two areas of concern with a radiator shop repair. The most important one is the thickness (or lack thereof) of the tank flange where it interfaces with the solder and mating flange on the core. If that tank flange gets too thin, it might not hold solder as it should (from what a good radiator shop told me years ago). Apparently, when they clean the old solder off of the tanks, their cleaning fluid also might remove some of the metal too, thinning the flanges? The other point of concern is the quality of the solder. Apparently there are several quality grades, with "OEM-spec" being the top level. I say this as any new Modine radiator I used to buy would last at least three years in daily use before it started to HINT to a tank seep. In most of the repairs we had done locally, in the later 1960s (there were three radiator shops in town then, with ONE being known to do the better work, as in "no leaks" for the longest period of time), most had a tank seep within two years of time. Which is what led me to the new Modines, with their OEM-spec quality for similar prices, back then. Just some thoughts and experiences, NTX5467

To the question of "authenticity", KH built wire wheels for many brands of cars back then, just that Buick also installed them OEM back then. There can be some repros, obviously, but I also suspect that ALL KH wheels will have "Kelsey-Hayes" stamped on the inner section of the rim, with the size specs for the wheel. The OEM versions would probably need tubed tires, unlike the newer versions with "the band patch" to seal the end of the wire spokes from leaking air, which makes them capable of using tubeless tires. I remember the General Dual 90 tires being advertised new, back then. "Dual" meaning the two tire treads, side by side. Great tire ads back then! Enjoy! NTX5467

One problem with adding additives after blending, by consumers, is the old "If some is good, more will be better" orientation. Everybody is of the orientation that all older oils had plenty of zddp in them for flat tappets, but some of the oil analysis reports I've found online to not support that claim. Some brands had less zddp in them that some of the modern oils which are supposed to be stayed away from. As other brands had more, but nothing like the 1400ppm of zddp many feel is needed. In researching the zddp issue when it first seemed to start, most of the USA failures were in "racing" and "high performance" engines with higher valve lifts (over .475" or so) or rebuilt engines (which used an aftermarket camshaft). THEN the issue appeared in some VW engines (which used a cam lobe to run their high-pressure injection pump). For the VW application, I looked at the oil recommended for those engines, which was an "SL" rated oil, which is capped at 1000ppm zddp and usually synthetic. Castrol sells a "black bottle" oil in "SL", 5W30, and (of course for them) full-synthetic. When I sold the last new Chevy ZZ430 crate motor, I carefully removed the Installation Instruction pamphlet, looking for engine oil specs for that motor . . . which had been "fire tested" at the engine plant that built it. It plainly said "SM" 10W-30 motor oil (which was the GM OEM spec at the time), with no mention of synthetic motor oil specifically. This motor had a high-lift cam and stiffer balve springs, yet it would "live" on oil with 800ppm zddp? BUT with a Parkerizing process on the cam to OEM specs. Which led me to suspect that the failed aftermarket cams had lesser coatings which worked fine with the "SL" oils but not the later ones. Then, CompCams later offered the "additional Parkerizing" as an option. Suspicion confirmed? Plus, as suspected, every cam manufacturer eventually had their own-brand of zddp additives for "break-in" or normal running. Of course, upgrading to roller valve lifters is an expensive proposition. Only problem is that roller-lifter cams were usually for ultra-performance race motors with higher lifts and lift rates which any kind of flat tappet could not tolerate. The OEM orientation is using them to "get friction out of the motor", plus a better lift curve for the valves. Ford's "answer" was mushroom-bottom lifters in their Y-block V-8s. There's a lot more to this deal than many might suspect, from my observations. Decades later, the primary oil additive keyed-on is zddp. THEN in an apparent effort to sell more of THEIR brand of motor oil, their "oil guy" states that using diesel-rated oil in a gasoline-fired engine is not good, due to "a different type of zddp in diesel oil that (apparently) does not work as well in a gasoline motor". Of course, a diesel motor oil has to deal with a bunch of things a gasoline motor oil does not (like keeping soot in suspension) for very long oil change intervals. But the friction/wear issues would be the same, I suspect. Years ago, when a brand spokesperson claimed "Use our product as it is better", I started to look for hidden agendas, which can mean "follow the money". Why would that spokesperson claim their oil is better (in a technical orientation) than another brand, if it might be that they desired to sell more of their-brand oil as a result? Considering that brand also has oil with massive amounts of zddp in it for specific race or "engine building" uses. I'm not disputing their statements, just a bit skeptical until I personally discover otherwise, related to the types of zddp, (which I don't doubt, but nobody had mentioned them before). But, as I've mentioned before, zddp is not the ONLY part of a high-pressure, friction-lowering motor oil additive package for a daily-use motor oil with great detergency qualities. My personal research is ongoing . . . Sorry for the length, NTX5467

For some reason, GM seemed to be on "a kick" to use two-piece driveshafts on everything they built in the 1960s. From pickup trucks to all of their larger passenger vehicles. While Ford and Chrysler did otherwise. In one respect, there had to have been some cost savings OR a valid engineering reason to justify the additional costs (in production and in later lives of the vehicles). Or might it have been related to the use of X-frames? Yet no X-frames on their light-duty truck platform. The center "double joints" were supposed to be about smoothness, as I recall, but in an otherwise smoooth body-on-frame vehicle which was already smoooooth by design? Which gets back to "Must have been chasing some harmonics . . ." situation. Seems like the new-for-1973 pickup trucks originally had two-piece shafts in them, which were later changed to single-piece shafts under warranty? Some of the 1990s Camaro V-6s used a two-piece driveshaft, but the center joint was similar to the outer bearing on a fwd driveshaft, as I recall. Must have been chasing some harmonic which was not there on the V-8 cars? Enjoy! NTX5467

But all it usually took to fix a flickering "GEN" light was a screwdriver or some wrenches, just depending on the severity of the issue. Maybe even a wire brush for the battery connections? Enjoy! NTX5467

Thanks for that information. In my dealings with keys at the dealership, we bought GM keys and sold them under GM part numbers. When I came online ln late 1976, we were fully into the rectangular head keys at that time. We still had some residual B&S keys, though, plus the older hand cutters and code books. I did not get involved with keys until I went to the front counter in about 1990s, yet having been around older vehicles, I knew of the B&S keys (which always seemed a bit strange compared to B&S lawn equipment). I later discovered the same blank code on the earlier B&S keys as the later keys. in comparing them, that is when I noticed the B&S keys were thicker, but had the same grooves in them as the later keys. Then, when we ran out of the desired B&S keys, I'd substitute the later square head keys for them, with the suggestion to file off the corners where they might hit the bezel around the ign cyl. Everybody was happy to get a new key in the correct code, even if they might need to modify the head a bit to work in the ign cyl. Then, should they encounter one of the vintage key vendors, they had a good pattern to deal with. At some time in the 1990s or so, GM started to advertise that some cars could have "Valet keys" for certain cars. The valet keys had a different large head and were thicker so they would only go into a cyl with a larger opening to accept them. The same thickness as the old B&S keys, I noticed. This was a marketing tool more than anything else as the valet key would only fit the ignition cyl. Somewhere along the line, they were quietly discontinued and then the plastic "emergency use" keys were "the next big thing", for the next few years . . . until people generally got affluent enough to call a locksmith or tow truck driver, when the keys broke off in a door lock cyl needing to be lubricated. In dealing with keys, we always bought GM keys from GM parts. That way, when a customer came in for a new key, they got a key exactly like the one they had lost/misplaced, rather than giving them something like they could get at Home Depot or similar. To me, that made for a better experience. I used the GM parts book to determine what was what, although we also had the other application book (with the "B" numbers in it. I would look at as a shortcut or quick-reference guide for the keys we bought which didn't come from GM. Many dealers bought from Curtis back then, who also supplied GM (and other brands) keys. For a long time, after GM went to the "plastic head" keys, the Curtis/Stratec keys always looked like they were "over-cooked" in the molds when compared to the GM-sourced keys. As a result, I bought the GM keys from GM as the GM-supplied keys looked like OEM rather than not. As things progressed, my associates did not understand my OEM orientation, so the over-cooked-looking Stratecs came to be what we stocked. BTAIM It was the key guide which brought me to notice the "Buick H" door blank compared to the normal "Square H" blank used on non-Buicks. Then the use of the carline logo on the blank heads, which increased the number of blanks massively, as to the heads and not the groove codes. I had never put together then ears on the steering column lock cylinders and the square head keys. I just went by what the parts book indicated and went from there. Then noticing the same groove codes on the B&S and square head keys, plus the thicker B&S keys with the same groove codes. The later, thinner square head keys could be used in the older, wider B&S cylinders, but not vice versa. MIght have to file off the inner corners of the square head keys to use in the earlier cars, though. Enjoy! NTX5467

Thanks for mentioning the anti-wear additives in that earlier unleaded gasoline. I knew there had to be "something" in them! Just as there are other things to minimize flat tappet/cam lobe wear other than zddp (which is the least expensive alternative). But zddp and TEL are what everybody keys upon. Thanks, NTX5467

I thought I had heard you mention that years ago. Just wanted to verify. Thanks, NTX5467

Just for the record, what oil and viscosity? NTX5467

Valve adjustments being used to gauge valve seat recession is one way to do it, BUT also remember that any mechanical lifter flat tappet engine, in the era when leaded gasoline was everywhere, was common. The issue was more related to valve lifter contact surface wear than valve seat recession. Some engines, as the VW Beatle 4cyl would actually tighten the valve adjustment with time, so whenever you heard one of them with a higher-pitched "wheeeze", that was why. Adjusting the valve lash eliminated that noise. Take care, NTX5467

If your pockets are a bit deep, you can still buy leaded racing fuel, of about 114 Research Octane in drums from several sources. Not financially-sustainable (even if mixed), though. You might also need a Fire Marshal's approval (and inspections) of the storage facility, too. Best to use the least expensive method and buy fuel from a higher-volume location. This morning, the Murphy USA station (in front of a WalMart) was selling 87 Pump Octane unleaded for $3.19 USD gallon. A QT station on the Interstate was selling Tier One 87 Pump Octane unleaded for the same price. FWIW Enjoy! NTX5467

In one respect, as long as the lifters are quiet and no other not-desired sounds occur at any time, no real concerns (as if the watning lights were always unilluminated after starting, going out quickly). On the other hand, knowing what the pressure is on the gauge can be good too. You can always hold the gauge "accountable" that as long as the pressure is in the "Normal" range, it is fine. Just watch it to see how it acts, like if it takes longer to rise upon first start or heads more toward "0" at idle. In an old 1950 Plymouth service manual, on the issue of oil pressure, it stated that ANY oil pressure at idle is good, as long as it then increases with engine speed. How long has the pressure been lower than it used to be? Might it be time to install a quality electric gauge for verification? Would be interesting to see how much wear is on the main and rod bearings, via Plastigage. Please keep us posted on what you find. Now that it's being in the lower 70s in the mornings, makes me feel like I need to grab a coat. Just some thoughts, NTX5467

When I was researching fuel stabilizers and such, I ran across the Bell Perf website and signed up for their newsletter. They run sales every so often in case lots. Glad to hear a good recommendation on their products. Since the "age of EFI", fuel quality seems to be much more standardized then it used to be. Anybody's fuel works well, it seems, no matter the brand. Direct Injection can throw in a few extra kinks, though. Personally, I estimate current gas prices are about $1.00-$1.25 too high. Plus, in the DFW area, when prices get down into the $3-teens for a few days, just when you were glad prices were coming down and stabilizing there, the next morning (or afternoon), the price suddenly goes up about 22 cents/gallon. After it stays there a day or so, then the price will ease back down by 1-3 cents/gallon per day until it gets close to the original price. And it's been doing that for over a year! And during the extended 100+ degree weather we had for the past few months, it was said that many of the Gulf Coast refineries were not configured to operate in that much heat, liking 95 degrees F much better. So less supply with increased demand. A "game" which seems to be fueling the EV sales in the process. It might have a 20 year pay-out, but with enough rooftop solar and such, get enough capacity to charge your EV without powering the house, yet. Waiting for improved solid-state batteries and such! Enjoy! NTX5467