Jeff Spear

I have made some gaskets for the side plate/cam and set the gear lash. Also bored out the small end of the rods for the dodge piston pin as it's a little bigger next I will make a fixture to babbit the big end.

Hello, There is a hupmobile Facebook group might try that as well.

Very nice 3d printing is a great addition for sure. Also once you have the CAD work done sending it off for printing in aluminum is an option then you can plate it or just polish it. I just had a small part printed in a stainless and bronze mix to give it a bronze color. HV3D in PA printed it for me I have no affiliation with them but I was very happy with the service and result. Another option might be to print a pla or wax version for investment casting in aluminum. I believe that direct printing for sand cast molds is a thing now as well. I'm not suggesting there is anything wrong with the carbon but if a guy wanted metal the process can help get you there.

Yes but with the dust cover off the mag you can see the 3/8" gap so I would leave off the armature cover until you have it installed a tooth will be obvious as you will either have no gap or double the gap. It's also easy to rotate or hold it if it does try and move on you. (edit) I wanted to add one could do the same by marking the location of the interrupter and watching it if you'd rather put the armature cover on first.

As I was looking for tips on how to time the Model 20, I found there is a lot of confusion surrounding it. It appears that many people who posted on the forum don't understand the factory instructions for setting the magneto. Some even believe that these instructions are wrong. I even came across some detailed advice on how to set it incorrectly, which was quite misleading. Another assumed the spark should be occurring with the armature 3/8" away from the pole shoe yet, another thought the spark occurs with the flywheel 3/8" after TDC both are incorrect. I'd like to make setting the timing per the factory book of instructions less mysterious and clear up some misconceptions. For the model 20, the timing should be set around 12 degrees advanced or, in other words, 12 degrees before top dead center, if we follow the instructions. Before getting into the process, there are a few points to consider. Firstly, you should check that your TDC mark is correct. With over 100 years of repairs, a different flywheel or cylinder may have ended up on your car. Secondly, you should know when the mag is supposed to spark. This should be hard to mess up on a fixed mag, but if the interrupter had the key filed off all bets are off. A fixed-time mag should spark right when the solid part of the armature leaves the pole shoe, within .020-.060". The spark occurs when the points open, and they should be open at a .060 gap on the armature, if not before. This is the maximum saturation of the winding and the hottest spark. Now, onto the instructions. The first step is to find TDC of the compression stroke. The next step is to rotate the flywheel 3/8" to the right of the TDC mark. Some people get confused about why we're going past TDC and think that it retards the timing. Yes, it does retard the timing by about 3 degrees, 3.09 if you do the math for my flywheel at a 13.875 diameter. However, we must continue for it to become clear as this is not where the spark occurs. The next step is to position the mag rotor on number one of the lead out cap. After that, we set the armature to pole shoe gap at 3/8". Remember that the mag does not spark here either. It sparks at a .020-.060 gap, so we are way past that one full tooth past. The mag gear has 23 teeth, so one tooth is roughly 15.6 degrees. This is the position where we assemble everything. I must reiterate that this is not where any spark is occurring; these are simply assembly positions. Now, when does the spark occur? We advanced the mag 15.6 degrees and retarded the engine 3 degrees, so the timing is 15.6-3=12.6 degrees advanced. If you want to check the timing another way, every inch of flywheel rotation is approximately 8 degrees of timing. So, if you're looking to check 12 degrees, just move the flywheel to 1.5" before top dead center (12/8"), and the mag armature should just be coming off the pole shoes, and the points should just be opening. If your car has ended up with a combination of parts that don't allow the timing to come in where you want it, most mag gears have two keyways for half-tooth adjustments. You can then use offset keys to fine-tune or even leave the key out if you feel okay about the condition of the tapers. Finer adjustments can also be made with point gap adjustment. I hope I have conveyed the instructions clearly enough to help someone set up the magneto on their Hupmobile. It strikes me as odd that Hupmobile did not simply state to set the flywheel at 1.5" BTDC and then put the magneto on when it is in position to spark. However, their instructions are still accurate, albeit a little peculiar. Jeff Spear

The crankshaft is fitted and it lines up perfectly it will come out again for some other work but I'm very happy with how it fits.

Very neat car thanks to those who posted information about it.

I'm very happy with the quality of the castings for the crankshafts the crank grinder said he could tell it was quality material. I did get my keyways cut and did the final fitting of the bearings so I can install the thing soon. I forgot to order some gyptal paint as I wanted to paint the inside of the block.

I made a CAD drawing of the hup oil breather cap and sent it to a place that 3D prints metal. He made a stainless/bronze cap for me it came out excellent I polished it up and just need to add the spring steel clip.

I got my crankshaft rough turned and threaded on the lathe did the mains and then made a couple of blocks that clamped on the ends with centers to offset for the rods. After that, it was sent to an automotive machine shop for grind and balance I also sent the flywheel for balance. I had it ground to 1.260 I figure a thinner babbitt is better and it gives .010 grind for the next rebuild and it'll still be stock size. Next is indexing it for the keyways and cutting them then I'll finally be back to where I was a year ago and can assemble the engine. I set my line bore jig back up and cut the two mains 1.2608 crank measured 1.2598 so I'll have about .001 starting clearance I expect some slight break-in wear hopefully it will end up about .0015ish not being adjustable you have to hit your number and guess at what the tooling marks might amount too for break-in wear. The babbitt machined very nicely so I don't expect much break-in wear.

This project is complete and they will be shipping out to all who ordered one next week.

Hi Bill, Thank you for the offer the gears you have are 26-27. I need 28-30 I think yours can be cut down and drilled for a pin if the shaft size is the same. However, Bob's does have the correct gear for 28-30 so I don't need to try and cut one down. This is the 28-30 gear.

Bob's did have the gear I just could not find them on the website.

well, I'll need a gear for my 640 the gear I have is a different shaft size and tooth count. It looks like Bob's only has the older gears I need 28 and up. If anyone has a source for one or one for sale. Perhaps the older gear can be fitted to the 640?

I ended up with that distributor off eBay and an Oldsmobile one that he had with a gear on it. I don't know yet if I have a distributor gear that will work or not. Also looks like the olds distributor might be an option for the Buick. I'm going to try and figure this out today.

I looked for rods I have one missing the cap but it's also bent probably because of a crank failure that I know my engine suffered in the past. I'll keep an eye out for possible candidates for rods. Ford rods are too long. I wonder about small engine rods maybe onan I need to look at specs and see if anything is close it seems like with all the engines made in the last 100 years something might be avail that will work. Nice job on the steering box parts. Jeff

Thanks, there's one for you too.

If Aaron has passed on this I am interested. Thank you Jeff

Ok Guys we got all the bugs worked out and a run of these is getting cast Ive sent emails to all that have a deposit on one or ordered one. It's been more work than I thought and the pattern was junk but we made it work they will take a little extra grinding but for a small run it's not worth a new pattern and I'm happy with how mine the latest sample is coming out. Jeff

I think that hup release bearing will be serviceable I'm sure the hard washer will need replacing but that is easy. You may want to check those cranks many are cracked from what I understand. Also, you are limited on how much you can grind undersize on the mains due to the flywheel taper on the front. I would think you'll find a pressure plate the hub may be another story as they were prone to failure but as you've seen with mine they can be made. I know some drums got the snout lathed off by the thrust washers at the back of the crankcase so there are probably some bad drums around with parts. Nonetheless, I will take detailed measurements before mine goes together for good. I'll look for the rod this weekend making one with CNC equipment would be very feasible if needed. It wouldn't be a terrible job on a manual machine either. I also had the thought that depending on how close a T rod is. You'll need pistons anyway and you may be able to have custom pin height pistons made to use ford rods. Custom pistons are as easy as filling out the spec sheet. If I remember a model T rod is 7" long and about 1.5" wide journal. I think the hup is closer to 6" long. Raising a pin 1" might be pushing it to stay out of the rings ill have to do some looking next time I'm in the shop.

Great project! I sure could have used that crankcase a while back I was able to repair mine after much procrastination and it's good as new I think. Regarding your clutch, if you have the drum and cover I was able to machine a new hub for mine and found a ball thrust bearing for the spring to ride on that's readily available I can get you the number. I will have mine apart one more time before the final assembly and will get a spring length, diameter, and psi when compressed to working length. I see a release bearing on the floor and a non-model 20 release bearing next to it. It seems like everybody over there has a machine shop in their shed or a friend who does I can send dimensions for machining clutch parts if needed. I may have a connecting rod I will look I think a model T rod is too long.

Ok we had a weather-related delay in getting the pattern to the foundry but it is shipping out in a few days so I will get some emails out to those that want one by Friday the 24th to confirm and get a deposit. There will still be time to order for several weeks as they will need to cast a sample and get approval before the run. I imagine the run of castings to happen in late March and be in your hands sometime in April.

I hope it is okay to post this. I am not doing this for profit or as a business just trying to help other owners. So I ended up needing a crankshaft for my model 20 and have decided to have some cast from ductile iron this has been done before and the ones in use have held up well at least, the ones I could find information on. Also the foundry has made other crankshafts in class 80 iron with no reported problems so this seems to be a good option. I also spent some time figuring out that the factory crankshaft was close to a 1030 steel forging what that means is the ductile iron will be as strong if not stronger than our factory crankshafts these are also beefed up a little. I have spent countless hours researching iron grades and all options to reproduce a crankshaft for our cars and many phone calls to find a foundry that pours ductile iron and would do the job and had experience with crankshafts this was the best overall option I could find that was affordable. If you need a crankshaft for your model 20 or would like a spare for the shelf let me know and I will send you a PM with info on a deposit. With the current quote from the foundry if I can get 6+ orders I should be able to offer the raw casting for 300+ shipping I would ask for a $150 deposit with the rest due + shipping when it ships. This quote expires at the end of the month but they don't expect it to change much if at all. I don't think I'll have the orders in by then but if the price were to change or I don't get 6 orders you will be informed of the new price with the option to back out with a full refund of the deposit (if you use paypal you might loose out on some fees in the event of a refund I'm not sure how that works) This will be a raw casting you will need to have a machine shop do the taper, threads, and keyways and a crankshaft grinder do the journals. I will be doing all of this to mine so I can guide you through the process if needed. Thank you Jeff

And for those wondering about the floor mats those will be up for order soon as well been testing different durometer materials and have got it figured out. I will also create a new topic when the time comes to make it easy to keep track of who wants a set. There is a lot more to add to the car project as well so I'll try and get that posted up to the current status now that its cold and I'm inside more.