TomN

March 13, 2022

Oldtech, thank you very much for your kind help. I´m much calmer now - our front stud has slightly damaged thread and I was afraid about it, but NF / NC fortunately will be not problem. Many thanks!

Bob, I agree with you, but if the stud is fixed in the block properly it should´t turn there while retorquing, only the nut on the upper end should do. I think this reduces the risk of later leaks. That is why I considered them. On the other side is truth that the factory used bolts going through the water jacket many years, sealants were not at the level known today, and those engines were running many decades without any problem. And sure some of them are still running without any repair. Anyway, thank you for your opinion, I will think about it.

Kind Regards

Tomas

March 11, 2022

The tightening diagram I posted is from the book "Buick Six Cylinder Models Their operation and Care - 1924", page 64.

March 11, 2022

Dear “Oldtech”, Kevin, Bob, Hugh and Fred,

Thank you very much for all replies and comments, I appreciate them very much.

Based on your advice looks that the head, neither the block haven´t been machined yet, so they can be resurfaced without worry to reach the distortion no more than 0,2 mm.

The main reason why I hesitated was that I didn´t know whether it wasn´t done before, thus whether it is still safe to remove some material. Also I wasn´t sure if that surface quality, equal to modern engines with significantly higher pressures is necessary. I will follow your recommendations.

I already bought the complete set from Olsons recently, the head gasket looks pretty old school with thickness 3 mm, which I believe is much better for these applications then modern thinner gaskets.

Many thanks for precise specification for the cylinder head bolts/studs, either regarding the size and the grade. The fact the bolts penetrate to the coolant is the main reason why I would prefer studs over bolts, even thought it is not original design. There is always risk the sealant will fail during bolts are re-torqued and I would like to avoid it

Oldtech: Do you mean the manifold studs are fine thread UNF, or UNEF, please? None of multiple thread patterns I have (UNF, Withworth…) match it, but I don´t have the complete range probably.

Hugh: Thank you for more detailed descriptions, the sequence you added I like much more. The one shown in the 1924 workshop manual is different and seems strange to me – number one is at the front of the engine. I have no idea why, because as far as I know, both 1924 and 1925 engines has virtually same block and head. I will probably follow the later sequence you posted.

Thank you very much again
Kind Regards
Tomas

March 4, 2022

Dear all,

I would like to ask you for some help regarding the overhaul of the 6-cylinder engine of the 1924 Buick 24-6-49. It is the car I presented here about year ago.

My principal question is: What is maximum permitted warp (flatness specification) of the cylinder head and cylinder block of this engine, please? Does exist some manufacturer recommendation, please? I didn´t find this information in the workshop manual. Or do you have some experience from your repairs, please?

To explain my concern – We bought the car with the cracked engine block (probably due to the frozen water). We started it for a while, and except the leaking water from the cracks, a lot of the bubbling water was forced out of the radiator then.

The cracks were welded and engine started again. Most of the coolant was again expelled from the radiator in few tens of the seconds. Seems the pressure from the cylinder(s) was leaking to the cooling system, so we removed the head. We found the engine has been already disassembled before (three bolts were replaced by studs). Hard to say if the head was torqued properly, a lot of force was needed to loosen the bolts, but it could be by the corrosion of their threads, reaching into the water.

Having in mind how fast was the water expelled, I expected visibly damaged head gasket. There are signs, but nothing extreme. Anyway, the gasket is branded Victor No.480. I don’t know how long it was available at aftermarket, but I have suspicion it wasn´t replaced during the previous repair.

I was also afraid the cylinder head and/or block could be deformed, either by overheating when running without water (I know nothing about the engine history), or by welding (the welder was very experienced, was doing short welds to avoid extensive heat accumulation, but nevertheless it could cause some tension).

Measured maximum head distortion is less than 0,25 mm (one area, the rest is less than 0,15/0,20 mm), for the block is less than 0,25 mm too but on more places. Regarding to known faults it seems to me quite good condition of both parts and not far away from limit for the current engines (usually 0,20 mm). Anyway, I have no idea what should be the maximum distortion for this engine.

I am going to test the head and block for leaks and can let them also grind, but I don’t want to do it if not necessary, because I don’t know, if this wasn’t done also before. There are some signs stamped on the head and block surface, maybe suggesting they weren´t machined yet. Signs &, L, A, S, K, F and sign B11 are at block, D, F and X are at head. Do you know their meaning, please?

I am in doubt, if the root cause of the leaking pressure to cooling system was the re-used head gasket, improperly torqued head, or too rough surface of head and/or block. If you have any experience or idea, I will be very grateful.

Regarding the overhaul I would also like to ask for your opinion about following:
1.   I am considering to use studs instead of original bolts, do you have some good/bad experience with studs, please?
2.   If using bolts, where to buy them, please?
3.   Which thread is used on the head studs for intake/exhaust manifold, please?
4.   1924 6-cylinder has quite strange prescribed sequence for the head torqueing, later models have more common sequence, even though they are almost the same. Do you know the reason and do you recommend to strictly follow 1924 instructions for 1924 model, please?

Many thanks in advance
Kind Regards
Tomas

January 28, 2021

Dear Marty,

thank you for the warm welcome, I am glad you like the car.

Regarding the added generator I want to maintain the original design, both from a technical point of view and because it is original.

You have mentioned McLaughlin too, so I have to properly investigate its possible Canadian roots. But first it has to be reliable runner.

Thank you very much

Kind Regards

Tomas

January 28, 2021

Dear Larry,

Thank you very much for your further help, many useful information and pictures. I really appreciate it.

I agree the modified design with the added pulley causes extra lateral load to bushings and moreover does not allow the packing replacement as well as worsens access to spark plugs, so definitely I would like to run with the original generator only.

You are right, the original updraft Marvel is replaced by some downdraft Zenith from the later era and the intake manifold is flipped upside down. Carburettor is fed by electric pump instead of Warner vacuum pump. My aim is to find and install original components, but this is for a longer time.

(This is the view before and after the block repair)

Thank you also for the note about horn and original coil placement. The current horn should be from 1929 Buick, but there is still blinded original hole in the firewall. I hope I will find the original Klaxon and will install it there.

Larry, thank you very much for detailed recommendations about the water pump removal, it will help me a lot.

I already started the job, but like you have predicted the coupler is rusted on the shaft, so my progress will be little slower now.

I will move the discussion to the Buick Pre-War forum as you have suggested.

Thank you very much again

Kind Regards

Tomas

January 21, 2021

Hello Ben and Larry ,
thank you for the warm welcome, I am glad you like the car.

Dear Larry,
thank you very much for your kind help and many useful information!

Interesting idea about McLaughlin Buick, I have to check the car more. Am I right the “top bows” are the roof bars, please?

You are absolutely right about the shock absorbers, with knowing the Westinghouse name I was able to recognize their designation on damaged label. Thank you.

Regarding the water pump, I am prepared to make a new shaft, condition of the current one is very poor and also to replace the bushings. Thank you for the information about Dean and for the added pictures, if the impellor will be available I will rather use a new one.

Sorry for the confusing information, the car really had another generator fitted, but it was additional unit driven from the pulley added in front of the water pump.
The Starter Generator itself looks to be original. The crack and the hole are on its side adjacent to the engine, so I do not know yet how big they are. I am going to remove it in the coming days.

I will be very grateful for any help, whether with Starter Generator itself, or for further information about sliding gear and its adjustment.

Thank you very much
Kind Regards
Tomas

January 10, 2021

Hello everyone,

My name is Tomas, I live in Slovakia (Europe). I would like to introduce myself and especially our Buick 24-6-49, which my father and me have bought early last year in Italy. As indicated by the type designation it is model 1924, 7 passenger Touring, build on 128 inches wheelbase chassis. According to the engine number the vehicle has been built at the end of 1923 or early 1924, labels at intake and exhaust manifold state the date 17^th and 18^th October 1923. Chassis nr. is unknown, label is missing.

Regarding the vehicle history we only know that it was imported from USA to Italy in middle eighties and since then was part of some local collection.

The vehicle is visually in quite good condition and almost complete, but not completely original, it is clear that some work has been already done on it. There is new upholstery, body was repainted, there is not original carburettor and fuel pump, another generator has been fitted, etc. Unfortunately it had engine damage, the cylinder block has been damaged by frozen water. The cracks in the block have been welded recently, but after the first start we have noticed the water pump leaks massively and the engine blows the coolant immediately after the start, so probably also the head gasket is broken. I hope no more damage is there. There is also some problem with starter which cannot properly match the flywheel gearing during the engagement. Moreover the motor-generator has cracked body.

The vehicle has also one interesting feature, on the front end there is some device, almost certainly intended as a shock absorber. I have seen something like this never before, or at other vehicle. The gadget is made very precisely and professionally, there are also two labels on, but unfortunately are unreadable.

Our first goal is to fix the engine, then to repair other minor problems and finally return it to its original, or period correct condition as much as possible.

We have quite good experience with classic vehicles, but we are totally new to Buick, so we are still learning. Also Buicks, especially from pre-war era, are very rare here in Central Europe. So far I have bought reprints of Reference Book for Six cylinder models, 1924 Buick 6-Cylinder Repair Shop Manual as well as 1916-1932 Buick Master Parts Book and going to buy 1624 Parts Book, but still looking for more information. I have found many useful information also here at this forum so I am sure, that will visit it in future more often, probably also with some questions.

Kind Regards

Tomas