timecapsule

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Posts posted by timecapsule


  1. 1 hour ago, D Yaros said:

    Can the arms on the 2 fuel pumps be switched?

     

    I would assume that they can be switched since they are both Carters and since the bodies look the same I would assume the pivot points are in the same place.  However I don't have my fuel pump now.  Only the one off the '47


  2. 7 minutes ago, FLYER15015 said:

    Rock Auto shows 2 pumps available for a '48 Chrysler.

    At $56.00 and change I would get one from them and not look back.

    Has a glass bowl filter on the top, which I think is a good thing.

    I got a pump from them for my '40 Buick LTD, several years ago and it still runs fine.

     

    Mike in Colorado

    Yes I noticed their listings, but when you click on each fuel pump it says it fits C-34, C-36, C-37 but not the C-38


  3. I didn't mean to take this discussion of topic by bringing in my richness on start up.

    It does clear up in about 3 minutes after start up depending on the day and then it's fine the rest of the day for start up.   Only on a cold engine. 

    I've recently adjusted my automatic electric choke ( manifold mounted)  and it was off quite a bit.  However I did this after my fuel pump disappeared so I'm curious to see if it will make a difference once I get a fuel pump back on the car.


  4. 4 minutes ago, keithb7 said:

    Inside the fuel pump, the inlet and outlet valves open and close when fuel pressure overcomes a mechanical spring that keeps those valves normally closed. Fuel pressure (hydraulic pressure) is what overcomes the springs, not fuel volume. 

     

    Regarding the float inlet needle valve and seat: The needle remains seated by mechanical pressure forced upon it by the float. The float drops, when fuel level lowers in the bowl. Then the needle opens and fuel flows in. Say at about 3-4 psi. If a fuel pump makes more hydraulic pressure than the float needle valve and seat's mechanical pressure that is designed to keep it closed, the fuel pressure can force the needle off the seat. Causing too much fuel to enter in the bowl. Depending on fuel pressure, possibly flooding the engine, or at least creating a rich Air/Fuel mixture.

    That's interesting what you said at the end.  Because even though I have rebuilt my carb, it still is rich on start up. (Big soot stain on the ground) So what you say could mean I have the wrong pump on and I might be better off with a pump similar to the '47 in the picture above.


  5. 4 minutes ago, keithb7 said:

    The float will dictate how much fuel goes into the bowl. If the fuel pressure remains the same, the float should open normally. I tend to think the bowl will fill up quicker due to more volume, and close again as it should.  No?

    I'm no expert with the inner working of the valves in a fuel pump but what you say makes sense.


  6. 1 minute ago, keithb7 said:

    They are indeed very similar. The one with the slightly bent arm at the tip, will it have a longer pump stroke? Maybe meaning more fuel volume will be pumped. Not pressure. Just volume? Perhaps the bent tip version was for a straight 8 engine. Or a larger engine like a 265, which consumes more fuel?  More fuel is pumped per stroke with this one?  Just guesses here. 

     

    Perhaps the bent tip is for a cam with a different profile on the fuel pump lobe?  

     

    I’d certainly try it. I’d confirm fuel pressure with a gauge too 

    I've been curious about that as well.  I think my service manual says what the flow should be, but I can't remember what it is right now.  If the pump that was on the car did have more volume than what it is supposed to be, what effect would that have on the running of the car?


  7. 7 minutes ago, zepher said:

    I' not sure about the ethanol situation in Canada, but if your modern fuel has ethanol blended in then you should rebuild any NOS pump with modern pieces to avoid any issues with using ethanol fuel.

    Same goes for all of your rubber fuel lines.

    Swap them all out so you don't develop a dangerous leak somewhere and risk having a fire.

    Yes, I believe the ethanol was probably the reason the diaphragm deteriorated originally.  I've replaced the rubber fuel line section just before the fuel pump as well.  Although I haven't had the car up in the air to have a close look,  I think the rest of the fuel line is all metal.  Since I've had the car I've only used 94 octane gas.


  8. On 12/13/2019 at 6:46 PM, vermontboy said:

    If the correct part is available just buy one ... I do understand your logic - honest,  but after 60 years of amateur wrenching I have learned that if the factory changed the part there are other not so obvious changes and you will just break something else. There are a lot of Mopar vendors out there and my guess is a lot of nos fuel pumps - not chinese repro stuff. The last time I needed a starter for a Mopar 6 I bought one at a small town NAPA - still in the box and still wrapped. I imagine fuel pumps fall into that category. Mechanical parts for those Mopar straight 6's aren"t scarce - they didn't break often.

     

    Just my two cents

    Here in Canada genuine parts are more scarce.  Not only that, but I've found that on several occasions local parts stores show a listing for exactly what I want, but when it arrives it's not correct.  I think it's probably that the people classifying the parts don't really know what that particular part is. Perhaps they have a "close enough " attitude.  Perhaps there is a "search engine" influence as well.  I'm sure we've all searched for a car part and by the time we get to the second page of google we're looking at clothing stores selling socks or whatever.  When you tell the parts counter guy that the part is identified incorrectly, it doesn't get corrected.  The guy at the counter getting minimum wages just doesn't care and just can't be bothered to let anybody know.  I miss the days when parts counters had parts books on the counter all covered in grease and dog eared.  Not only is the p/n correct but it's sitting on the shelf in isle 3.


  9. My engine on my 48 Chrysler is a 251 and I want to try and see if I can use a fuel pump off a '47 with the same engine.  However as the pictures show the contact arm that rides on the camshaft is different.  Firstly the arm on my '48 fuel pump has a bend in it.  The '47 is straight.  But I've studied the two  and taken lots of measurements and I'm pretty sure the only difference is the angle of the wear area, as it touches the cam.  However the '47 is slightly shorter, about a 1/16".  The picture of the wear mark is from my '48 fuel pump.  So since they ride on the cam about the same place once you subtract a 1/16"  you can see that if I install the '47 in my engine there won't be much steel past the wearing area. 

    Should I assume that the wearing point is bottom dead centre of the cam so to say?  

    I'm curious about what direction the cam is turning?  If it's turning counterclockwise then that might be a bit comforting because the rotation will be going away on the arm.  If it's turning clockwise it will be turning towards the arm. To make my point if I was to put a really thick gasket on the fuel pump and the cam was turning clockwise, I would be worried that the arm might slide up a bit and get destroyed.  Thinking that scenario through the weak point would probably be the aluminium body of the fuel pump. I don't really want to take that risk of breaking anything to be honest.  

    As for the angle of the wearing point on the  two different arms in relationship to the cam, I can't really see what difference it might make as long as it is making contact at the dead bottom of the camshaft.

    You might be wondering why I want to try this and that is a nightmare of a story.  Long and short of it is I don't have my '48 fuel pump and I have no idea when I will see it again.  So I'm hoping this will be an alternative solution, short of going online and buying a new one which will probably be made in China and who knows what shape or length of arm it will have. 

    20191205_102959.jpg

    20191205_114940.jpg


  10. 2 minutes ago, c49er said:

    Read the factory shop manual for setting the "sisson" choke...

    A special sized rod was used for an accurate adjustment but a letter drill that fits tight will work.

    Thanks, I'll read up on it in the manual


  11. Oh btw.  Like I said I'm going to try rebuilding the spare carb I hope, if it's available.   When I rebuilt the carb we're talking about I soaked all the parts in pine-sol over night.  It did a pretty nice job, but perhaps there is something even better?


  12. 7 minutes ago, c49er said:

    The accelerator pump piston pushes a strong jet of fuel up that drilled passage.

     

    Running rich on cold start...

    Is your electric choke adjusted too rich?

     

    Is this carb on a 46-48 chrysler Windsor/Royal or T&C sedan?

    Getting at is it the right carb for the car.

     

    Why does it run just right now with out the ball plug....

    Wrong main/step rich up jets could mask a weak accelerator jet...

    Just speculating...don't know

    This advice is worth what you paid for it..I need to get back to my E7A1

     

    I'm going to be looking into the electric choke situation soon.

    The carb is on a 48 Windsor 251c.i.  It's a EV1 manufactured Nov. 1947 so I'm assuming it's probably the OEM carb.

    I'm not sure what the jets are.  

    Thanks for everybody's input


  13. 6 minutes ago, c49er said:

    The drilled passage under that ball plug is pressurized with fuel each time the throttle is pressed forcing gas through the accelerator pump jet. There is an aluminum access plug right at the end of the jet too. With out that aluminum plug or the small missing steel ball plug in place place the strong accelerator jet stream will be lost out of the missing plug and not be completely forced through the accelerator jet into the venturi.

    The small steel ball approx .140" is firmly  pressed into the top end portion of the accelerator pump drilled passage. After it was drilled a steel ball was pressed partially down into that drilled passage and staked. Some I've seen are not staked.

    That accelerator jet also has a hole in the side to push fuel into that small square box cavity  to mix air/fuel for emulsion of the venturi jet spray.

     

    I'm not disputing what you're telling me but I'm not getting a clear picture from your first sentence.  I'm going to take apart that spare carb and have a closer look.  

    But I do have another why question.  With all of what you've all just told me, why is my carb working almost flawlessly?  It has been running without that ball for about 4 months since I rebuilt the carb.  I've only owned the car since June and the previous owner said he didn't have any issues with how the car ran.  It does spit out a lot of black soot when it's cold on start up but I'm told that might be my automatic choke on the manifold that needs adjusting.  But I don't want to bring that into the discussion here.  My carb responds under acceleration just fine.


  14. Yes I know but the who essence of this discussion to me at least is why????? 

    2 minutes ago, c49er said:

    In one of my first posts I did say the ball seals off a drilled passage way🙂

    Yes I know, but the whole essence of this discussion from my point of view is,,,,,,  why?  Even though hchris explained it.  It still doesn't make sense why it's there in the first place.  If I'm "Mr Carter"  I'm calling the design engineer into my office and asking why are we casting the base with this extension coming off the passageway for the jet, and then creating a pocket for a ball to sit in and then creating a tool to seal that ball in place, when it makes no difference in the operation of the carb in the end.  

    hchris wrote "these plugs are used to close off the internal passages for fuel and airways to function".

    If this body is cast without that raised cylindrical portion that the ball is seated in, then the end result is the same.  It was a waste of time and money from a manufacturing point of view in my opinion.  The aluminium plug on the outside of the body allows any access needed and seals the chamber once the jet is installed.  


  15. 3 minutes ago, hchris said:

    During the casting process an open ended passage is formed, there's more than one of these within most carbs, so these plugs are used to close off the internal passages for fuel and airways to function.

    Thanks hchris.  Noooow it's pretty clear.

    • Like 1

  16. 41 minutes ago, 54vicky said:

    reread C49ers posts again he made it pretty clear

    I read it again and I still have the same question???? I understand that the ball  needs to be in place, but since it's not a check valve it doesn't move. It's fixed in place and sealed.   So again I ask, what's the point???


  17. 8 hours ago, c49er said:

    The plug ball is just bigger than the hole.

    .It is pressed just to just slightly above the casting and staked in place.

    Last year I also rebuilt a carb with that ball missing...a core carb. I did measure the diameter but don't now remember the size.

    That is not a check ball. It must be in place to make the accelerator pump jet have a 100% strong squirt into the venturing area....otherwise fuel will spray up through the missing ball hole and do nothing but possibly cause a hesitation on quick hard acceleration.

    oh ok, thanks c49er.  So it sounds like if I was to look into that hole it would be a cup shape with a small hole on the bottom I suspect.  Similar to the recess that holds the smallest of the 3 balls in the rebuilt kit that is sort of on the opposite side of the lower body covering the "idle restriction tube" . 

    By "staking"  I'm guessing you mean like peaning the aluminium around the edge to keep the ball in place?  Or could I use some JB weld to hold it in place? 

     

    Sorry for my over curiosity but why would Carter bother to have that ball there if it doesn't serve any purpose.  Why not just made that part of the casting solid around the jet, or am I not understanding something? 


  18. Unfortunately I didn't take a picture of the inside of the top body.  But for those not familiar with the EV1 model you can see the internal tube on the angle just above that aluminium plug.  The casting opens up as the upper and bottom bodies meet so the entire cavity surrounding that ball including around the jet is open to that tube that goes to the top of the venturi.  I can only assume that air is being drawn down that tube and through the centre of that jet. Right? Wrong?

    20190804_104354.jpg

    20190802_092124.jpg

    20190802_094443.jpg


  19. What is it's function? Like I mentioned it looks like it just leads to the space between the end of the jet  and the end of the aluminium plug.  As I mentioned my carb is on the car so I don't really have a clear image of what is in that hole but from the picture, it looks like a ball would just slip right through. As in the picture of the carb that has the ball, it looks like it's seated from the inside.  If it has no purpose why couldn't I just fill the hole with JB weld? Or just leave it open as it is now?  If it's plugged will I notice anything different in how the carb performs? 


  20. I've discovered something abnormal about my Carter B&B  EV1 carb.  I'm missing what looks like a SS ball that is in the same tube that holds the accelerator pump jet. I should point out that I'm not a carb guy so I don't really understand all the circuits and how they function exactly.  I rebuilt the carb a couple months ago and it works ok except very rich on start up. I was careful to take many pictures as I disassembled it and made sure I followed specs when reassembling it.  However since I'm not a carb guy I didn't notice that the SS ball or whatever it is, was missing.  I only found out when I came across another EV1  the other day and when I took the upper body off, I noticed what mine was missing.  It looks like it is seated from the inside of the tube that holds the accelerator jet. 

    So is air drawn down that tube on the outside of the upper body, from the top of the venturi and then past that SS ball?  It looks like that SS ball is located between the head of the jet and the aluminium plug, which makes me wonder why it's there? I don't have the carb off my car right now and the other carb isn't mine yet so I haven't pulled that plug out to have a closer look. Could that be the reason my carb pushes out black soot on start up?  Is there a remedy?  There doesn't seem to be a p/n for that part.  I've sent two pictures.  My carb without it and the other carb that has it.

    20190803_134443.jpg

    20191118_125430.jpg


  21. 7 minutes ago, TerryB said:

    I would guess the heat holding metal mass of the fuel pump along with its internal diaphragm of rubbery material might suffer more from exposure to engine heat over time.  Probably a way to ensure the pump does not die prematurely.  

    oh ok.  I remember in drag racing pit crews would make efforts to keep the fuel cool because hot fuel robs the fuel of power so to say in layman terms.  So I had the impression that's what the heat shield was doing in this instance as well.


  22. 22 hours ago, Rusty_OToole said:

    The long bolt is to hold the heat shield. It is a flat piece of sheet metal bent into a J shape that goes between the exhaust manifold and fuel pump. At the top, there is a tab that goes under the end manifold bolt. It is not a very complicated piece and you could make one at home, if you want to buy one I think Bernbaum or Vintage Power Wagons sells them.

     

    image.thumb.png.af497069f77d045183cd930d72703687.png

    I'm puzzled about the purpose of the heat shield.  The fuel lines going into and coming out of the fuel pump are about 7-8 inches away from the exhaust manifold.  However as the fuel line goes past the exhaust manifold on route to the carb it is within about an inch to inch and a half away from the exhaust manifold. Why wouldn't there be a heat shield there too?