TTR

After reviewing these pictures I realized I still have that same $9.00 Timex I bought from Walton's retail supermarket (my previous, Swiss-made watch crapped out unexpectedly and I just quickly went to nearest store to get a replacement), but for past +/- 30 years it's been hanging off the inside rearview mirror of the Roadster, keeping very accurate time. Its OEM battery died couple of years ago after 30+ years of service and interestingly coincidential enough while the car was inoperative for +/-8 months during the engine rebuild, but got promptly replaced, so I'm hoping I don't have to replace it for at least another couple of decades.

Here's several from the day she arrived and made me feel like the happiest person on the planet. There are plenty more in the thread "Long distance driving/traveling with vintage cars" I started 5 years ago. Trying to act cool and hide the excitement: "Now what do we have here ?": Lovely: Yes !! First ride: Another with friends: Heaven on earth: P.S. I still love her as much, if not more today. We've been together more than half of my life and hopefully stay that way until death to us...

While I don’t consider my PB Roadster as a “Street Rod”, per se, she definitely is an (early’-‘50s, period authentic) Hot Rod and likely got saved only due to my decision to buy her nearly 35 year ago. She was essentially a basket case and close to what edinmass calls “floor sweepings”, missing many of her original mechanical and trim parts and would’ve been a very difficult (& costly) if not a hopeless project to be restored back to her original form (which didn’t interest me), but she had the original frame with front & rear axles/suspension/steering and most of the her original body and other panels, not to mention, in spite of having been cannibalized as a parts car, still had the original VIN and title/registration papers + plates from 1952 when she had been last time registered for road use. There was also ample evidence of her having been already “hot rodded” long before my ownership, likely back in the early 1950s Fortunately (for me) I had a great local friend with a fully restored PB Convertible Coupe along with dozens upon dozens of prewar MoPar vehicles and truckloads of parts offered to give me any and all parts I needed in exchange to any and all parts that came with her but I had no planned need or use for. Thanks to this agreement, which both of us were happy with, I was able to build/create a car I had dreamt of since my mid-teens and now, after nearly 35 years and 100K+ miles later, I still have and enjoy her several thousand miles annually and hope to continue until I get pulled off from this great highway of life.

Welcome to my world, sort of. While I’ve been making a living restoring vintage cars to relatively high standards (i.e. probably PB acceptable, if not BoS extent) for over 30 years, extremely protective and at times overly comcerned of my clients cars and their well being, i.e. cleanliness, condition, etc, I’ve also owned dozens of (vintage) cars and driven them for several hundred thousand combined miles in past 45 or so and have always mostly owned unrestored, “preservation/survivor” examples (long before either became fashionable term and just despise term “barn find”). But then again, I’ve never bought, owned (or much “showed”) my personal cars. I’ve always acquired/had them for my personal enjoyment only. While I occasionally clean them, perhaps once a year on average, I don’t go out of my to do so, as I know it won’t make them run or drive any better and since I don’t really care whether or not others like them, I don’t worry if they appear dirty and used, or should I say, well enjoyed. I also don’t go out of my way to abuse or neglect them either. P.S. I also don’t “hate”, let alone “absolutely”, anyone or anything in this world. Not worth it and life’s too short for such. I sincerely hope you’ll get over that too.

That's pretty much what I said in my first post to this thread. Has always been. Ask Ed. But then again, so are all other concours/judged shows.

I agree, to a point. Most, if not all P.B. BoS and BoC or Cavallino (Ferrari) BoS and 100 point Platinum level restorations are very likely refinished far above & beyond what the given cars had originally, i.e. "over restored", for which at least IAC/PFA* guidelines have a specific, but rarely, if ever used category for points deduction, or in other words, non-authentic restoration. * Ferrari focused organization responsible for creating international judging guidelines/rules for them and these guidelines/rules are possibly same or similar to those used at P.B. judging (I believe some of the council members are same)

Just for a brain exercise, I just added up the labor hours shown on invoices in this listing and came up with almost 10,000* (and excludes 385.5 shown to be for a model/sample car, job #905 ?), all invoiced/paid within 13 months, which would suggest the shop must've had at least 5 individuals working on it full-time for over a year (09-10-09 to 10-01-10). And that doesn't include +/- $150K Chrome bills or +/- $130K for parts, etc. Now let that sink in and then, add your preferred shop rate of today + any increases in Chrome & parts costs. * Last "full/complete restoration" I did took over 4000 hours (but I'm known to not keep very good track of all hours) although on much smaller/simpler postwar (sports) car and I outsourced the paint job along with about 1/2 of the interior/upholstery work + plating & polishing of bright trim.

That's part of the "Boomer" syndrome I often refer to. While I grew up with pretty much nothing and I still have most of it left, I'm not afraid to spend it on my passions, including vintage cars. Perhaps I'm not the smartest, but at least no one can call me cheap or a poser.

Another way to look at a complete/full restoration of almost ANY CAR is that in most cases where it has all its reusable coach work, mechanical, trim, etc components & parts in relatively nice condition, it will take several thousand hours of labor to disassemble, refurbish and re-assemble all of them, no matter who does it. Only variable will be quality vs labor rate and price of replacement parts. Basic "supply" costs are same, regardless of subject vehicle, size of the subject notwithstanding. Most people don’t seem to understand some basic/ simple facts associated with restorations, for example, to prep & paint a large prewar car or ‘50s/‘60s limousine will take more time and material to do than, let’s say any vintage Ferrari, including the iconic 250 GTO (which are valued at $50M-$80M each) which in turn has closer to same amount of paintable surface area of a, let's say '64 Corsair, Corvette or '65 Mustang convertible. Or the fact that most late-‘50s American mid-to-high priced luxury production cars have much more chrome/aluminum/stainless bright trim than just about any prewar full classic, hence the plating and polishing costs for former should be expected to be considerably higher. OTOH, '50s/'60s vintage Ferraris or similar sports cars, for example, are much smaller (= less body & paint work labor or materials), have very little trim and relatively simple interiors, yet can easily cost $500K and up to restore, but many may and have required $1M+. Etc, etc, etc… And let’s not forget the fact that “complete/full restoration” is and has always been THE most commonly misused phrase or reference in this hobby. “Rebuilt” is not too far behind. And yet most adult and/or allegedly well educated vintage car enthusiasts or their chosen restorers just fail to consider or understand all this. Now that’s mind boggling.

Saw all this earlier, but noticed "B fits A" (not vice versa) and no mention of '57 Plymouth, hence didn't suggest anything definitive.

I agree, but would go as far as recommend testing it even before re-wiring, and if it works, take it completely apart for full service (including re-wiring) before installing it. Or install it "as is", but without connecting power source to prevent any likely failures, including electrical fire.

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First, I did just stopped by my off-site storage and I do not have a bell housing with that casting number nor any that Hollander Interchange Manual suggests as a possible replacement, although latter doesn't necessarily mean you couldn't use some other one, but that would require for you to try and make the decision. Sorry. Also, being presumably a "late-'57" car, your bell housing casting number could be original and appears to be for "water cooled" transmission ("Air cooled" transmissions used bell housings with several openings w/screens on them and smaller diameter torque converters w/rows of small cooling fins). Good luck with your search and restoration.

Thanks, but in my case, it is/was the customer who had poor advise or luck having chosen the previous shop, although in their defense, some of the discoveries of mix-matched parts and other less than ideal workmanship(?) was possibly/probably done already years or decades before their involvement and perhaps they weren’t experienced enough to know or realize the incompatibility. When I used to rebuild these (& other ‘50s automatics) 20-30+ years ago, many weren’t as “abused” & spare “hard parts” or complete spare transmissions, if needed, were much easier to source. Heck, I used to buy, have and keep a lot of NOS parts on hand (only for certain transmissions), but all that stock has now been pretty much depleted. I just checked the records of the last two ‘50s 3-spd automatics (both same type, but different year models), including the aforementioned, recent job and apparently both required +/- 100 hours of labor, including removal, complete disassembly, thorough cleaning, inspection & service or replacement of all, parts sourcing research, prep & refinish (in- & outside) of the case, other exposed housing components & hardware, re-assembly, installation, final adjustments & tests (of line, governor, etc pressures), several (short & long) road tests , etc + $2K- $3K each for parts and materials. Obviously all the above is detailed in invoices which are accompanied by dozens upon dozens (or in some cases, hundreds) of copies of photo-documentation showing any and all before/during/after progress, discrepancies, failed, incorrect, missing components and parts, etc. And then I have one similar job, still in process for a nearly 70 year old car, but much more complicated due to transmission being an "introductory" year model and was originally littered with numerous engineering failures, features mostly one-year-only main components, any of which haven't been available for 60+ years (most of the originally used and failed transmission were replaced with later/improved models under warranty when the cars were still nearly new), but the owner insisted I try to source and rebuild that ("numbers matching") unit regardless. Needless to say, this particular job has required more hours, including research, reverse engineering, custom fitting/machining several later model (internal) components and parts, which weren't engineered or intended to interchange to begin with, etc and obviously I can't even guarantee it will work or if it does, how long, but I made the client aware of all this (and initially suggested the use of a unit from next model year or two) before we embarked on this journey. So yes, if you managed to get away with less, it could mean you were lucky enough to have had a good transmission to start with.

Sorry for delayed reply. I haven't had a chance to visit my storage where they are. I'll try within next couple of days and report back. I just realized that casting number suggests your bell housing may not be correct or original application for that car/engine/transmission. Was it in the car/engine/transmission when you received the project and do you know if it had been working with it ?

Most 50+ year old vintage car automatic transmissions "are not complicated" and yes, many can be overhauled (Note: I didn't write rebuilt, as like with carburetors & other mechanical components, it's a different concept than overhaul) by anyone with competent mechanical skills (even I've done many). The problem for most comes from having access to (or ability to fabricate) appropriate special fixtures/tooling some of them require for various assembly processes, but even bigger ones (i.e. problems) come from many having been subjected to who-knows-how-many hack jobs previously performed by, well, hacks*, over the lifetime of any given 50, 60, 70 year old transmission. Also, finding even good used, let alone new "hard parts", i.e. everything not included in overhaul kits, for most transmissions that old is getting extremely difficult. Same goes with many 60+ year old engines and other mechanical components. Why do you think so many people claiming to be vintage car enthusiasts (or professionals) so quickly opt into those "Small Block Chevy" crate engines and "TH ***"s or "T10 w/OD"s, "Mustang II" front suspensions/steerings, Universal Wiring Sets and other "One-size-fits-nothing" Kit Car component approaches in lieu of rebuilding original equipment ? I just finished rebuilding a 60+ year old 3-spd automatic which had spent 3 extended stints in a "Transmission Shop" supposed to specialize in automatics and have had great experience with this era & type of unit, but I could write pages of shocking discoveries I made during removal and disassembly ... ... and yes, it needed quite amount of "hard parts" to replace either incompatible/incorrect or worn-out items, although it was still easier/simpler job than the rebuilding of a 4-spd transaxle + all its electrical & vacuum operated control mechanisms in a '37 Cord I did last year. OTOH, my best friend who lives in Europe and has restored several of his own cars (and their transmissions) from late '40s to early '60s (all from same corporate umbrella and have similar automatic transmissions) spent couple of months fighting with a final assembly of a late '50s unit which he had taken completely apart, thoroughly cleaned, inspected, measured, etc, and without changing anything other than all "overhaul kit" parts and after numerous phone and video calls with me advising him how to try different assembly approaches and tests, just gave up and is now looking to acquire another similar, hopefully(!) a "virgin" unit to take apart in efforts to figure out why the one he has is not co-operating. * See OPs comment about "botched".

Glad to read it worked out and no need to be sorry about reporting back, even if not immediately. Most people often don’t have courtesy to do it at all. Did you by chance ended up checking the compression ? it should always be one of or perhaps the first things to do when diagnosing any running/starting difficulties in any old/used engine, especially in one without comprehensive maintenance/service records

Do I win something ? A merit badge or star sticker at least ?

Only safety related worry I read/see is straps having been acquired from “Horrid Fright” for $10 a piece, which itself should be more than alarming about their “quality”(?), if that’s even a right word to use with anything they sell.

Whether it's about "Cardashians", "Real T***s of Beverly or Hershey Hills", "Pimp/Restore and/or Auction Off Your Ride In a Week or Less", etc, ... I agree. I too have only seen few brief moments of some car related "TV shows" over the years, but found all an embarrassment to my hobby, passion & profession (Thanks again "Boomers"). I also cringe and feel embarrassment whenever I mention my hobby, passion & profession to someone who immediately replies with something like "Oh, like those shows on TV ?" (I just want to scream "Hell, no !!!) And mind you I was offered my own "TV show" (about my shop & work) over 20 years ago, long before they became "popular", but out of self-respect (and that to my profession) I promptly declined and don't regret the decision at all, especially hearing & seeing what utter nonsense they've all become now. OTOH, I guess it's as the saying goes "To each his/her own" or something like that.

So how long is it ? 😉

Standard cargo containers, whether 20 ft. or 40 ft. long, are about 7.5 ft wide (inside) and little less than 8 ft. high (inside). Outside width is about 8 ft. and outside height about 8.5 ft. A stock 1949 Chevrolet 1/2-ton pick is probably about 6.5 ft. wide and 6.5-7 ft. high and should easily fit inside a standard 20 ft. (or 40 ft.) cargo container. Probably millions of cars and trucks are stored (and shipped every day) inside cargo containers all over the world. I personally know numerous people who keep their vehicles in them.

Well, did this thread answered the question in the title ?

Sorry to say but much of the above advise/comments are pointless word salads and not applicable. Some, but not all, late-'56 through '58 Dodge cars/trucks & Plymouths with 6 and/or 8 cylinder engine bell/converter housings will interchange with minor or no alterations. I have some, but would need the casting number from yours to help determine if any might work for you ?

Thanks for the suggestion, but we haven't decided yet which year or time of the year it'll take place. Most likely off-season, either spring or fall. Care to share more about your plans, perhaps in the thread "Long distance driving/traveling with vintage cars" I started after joining this forum ? P.S. My best friend & his wife did that trip few years ago (in a modern rental car) and having relied on a "Guide Book" created about (only) 20 years earlier, realized more than half the features/sites/etc noted in that book either didn't exist anymore or were no longer recognizable (but the wife being an avid photographer, still managed to take +/-10K images within that weeklong trip).