TTR
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Posts posted by TTR
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2 hours ago, c49er said:
Take good notes and pictures when taking a car apart...later to be put back together.
+1 and not only “when”, but copious photos from multiple angle even before taking anything apart or off.
It has always amazed me how many individuals, even so called professional restorers, fail to do or understand the benefits of this, more so now in the digital age when almost everyone has cell-/smart phones or tablets, etc with a cameras and huge storage capacities for taken images.
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15 hours ago, marcapra said:
My parts car friend sent me a pic of his 47 DeSoto under dash. It's good to have a parts car buddy, as no one else seems to have the answers on this kind of minutiae. And maybe these pics might help a future restorer of a Chrysler product of this era. What goes there is a strut that seems to be for holding the steering column firmly to the top of the cowl. The bottom of the strut screws into a flange that attaches to the top part of the steering column clamp. This strut is attached with 1/4" bolts.
These types of under dash support brackets or rods are common and can be found in most makes and models of vintage cars & trucks, nothing special or unique to Chrysler Corp. cars.
Just about every vehicle I’ve ever worked on has had some variation(s) of them.
Some are cast, some are solid rods (like the one pictured above), some are stamped steel (similar to stamped steel tabs the rod in above picture is attached to), etc.Some support the dash itself, some the glovebox, some the steering column, some the radio, etc.
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I wonder if it’s the axle rather than spindle that’s bent.
If it was latter and depending on severity of the bend, I would think bearings, hub etc, wouldn’t last very long or maybe not even allow the wheel to rotate.
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52 minutes ago, ABear said:
Yeah, last ditch effort before considering trading in for a new vehicle, I started searching the Internet with the symptoms I was getting and low and behold up popped the solution..
So, in the end, I discovered that I was the "better" mechanic than the so called "professional" mechanics and I didn't cost $160 per hr mechanics rate the dealer charged me at that time. Haven't been back to the dealer for many yrs, instead for modern vehicles the first tool I grab is my HF OBD2 scanner and the second tool is Internet search engines..
Older vehicles, I rely on a lot of lessons learned working beside my Dad on back then modern vehicles with carbs and points ignitions. He taught me a lot and I like passing on old knowledge to others when possible.
First, based on your description of the events, I wouldn’t consider you being a “better mechanic” than one you contracted to diagnose and fix the problem, but rather that you just got lucky after spending several grand (according to you) for nothing.
And of course there’s alway a possibility you not disclosing everything that actually transpired, but that seems fairly common, especially on internet forum problem solving inquiries, so nothing to be taken personally.
Second, I’m surprised that based on your supposed experience in leadership position you failed to recognize the dealership shop & mechanic weren’t up to the task before submitting your vehicle for their care.
How did you found them and decided to let them work on it ? Internet reviews ?
P.S. I’m not defending “professionals” per se, as there are plenty of bad or less than good ones in any field, but compared to DIYs, the ratio is probably nowhere near as dramatic.
Heck, here in SoCal, I’m surrounded by a large variety and quantities (= thousands upon thousands or more) of automotive related businesses of all types, but let’s say within 50 mile radius, there’s not many I would do business with, let alone recommend to someone else
Yet most of these “professional” shops seem to stay in business and some have for decades. -
2 hours ago, ABear said:
Have you considered that the OP most likely DID try finding/hiring a mechanic that is able to properly diagnose the problem AND failed to be to "find" one that can?
The reality is, very few auto repair shops actually have mechanics that have the knowledge to troubleshoot and solve the issues without OBD2 ports and/or shotgunning with thousands of Dollars worth of parts and thousands of Dollars in labor..
I know myself, after getting burned for well over $4K in parts and labor on a MODERN OBD2 equipped vehicle just how frustrating and expensive it can be and yet have the same problem plus more bad mechanic induced problems. The fix to the problem I had, found it doing a Internet search and then a few Youtube searches plus a can of throttle body cleaner were were back on the road and off to the races. Yeah, $6 for a can of throttle body cleaner and only took two good squirts to clean the sticking computer controlled throttle plate.. Yeah I raised heck with the dealer shop supervisor, total of no less than 8 times returned back to them and they returned it still broken.
Sometimes one can find some nuggets of wisdom on Internet forums and that most likely is why the OP asked here..
I absolutely considered, but since OP didn’t indicate having done that hence my recommendation.
Besides, had OP found one he/she wouldn’t have a need to ask about it here.
Apparently you failed to find proper one also.
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I would recommend finding/hiring a mechanic who knows how to properly diagnose the cause.
Everything else, including asking about this here or in any other forum is likely waste of time, both your own and of those trying answer/help, including me.
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21 minutes ago, joe_padavano said:
Asking the interwebs for help will get you a huge number of incorrect suggestions.
This ^^ applies to almost all technical questions people come up with in their daily endeavors, be they about fixing cars, household items or gardening.
I’ve often said that if you have to ask help for basic/common sense technical problem solving in online forums/platforms you probably shouldn’t attempt to diagnose, fix or be working on it in the first place.
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2 hours ago, ABear said:
We will just have to disagree.
I worked in a "high tech" company for 22 yrs, the company builds very specialized robotic equipment that millions of people depend on not killing them.
The SAME manufacturing "production line" principals apply across the board whether you are putting together a harmless bath tube drain or a car. The company that I worked for hired NON TECHNICAL, NON MECHANICAL, NON ELECTRONIC people for the production assembly lines across all of our product offerings. My company got labor from "temp agencies", brought them in as temps and IF they were able to pickup and learn the job given to them then the company offered to hire them. Starting pay was low and if you were good at the jobs then you would earn "merit increases" based on company profits AND your prgression in learning other assembly positions.
I was one of very few "skilled" laborers with Electro-mechanical, computer backgrounds that existed on the production floor. Hired in to replace some deadwood that couldn't follow simple instructions on how to setup all of the computer equipment for the products. Worked my way up to Team Leader for computer systems for our equipment, worked with research and engineering, plus purchasing, inventory, sales, upgrade scheduling people. Helped stand up multiple new products on new production lines. Often working on several jobs every week that were often $200K-$500K in sales and bottom line value every week. Yep, that's $1M-$4M in contracts per month just in what I handled by my work cell group alone.
Right about now you are saying to yourself, what does that have in common with autos and mechanics?
Toward the end of my career there, the company hired in a new "professional production floor manager", he came from working at HONDA and he ALSO worked at TOYOTA as PRODUCTION MANAGER over the entire companies production. Yes, I learned a lot about how it is done within the automotive industry in Japan. The USA industry workers are highly "coddled" over the Japanese workers to say the least.
Auto workers just like my company production workers are trained in MULTIPLE work cell positions on the production floor, they do not work in the same work cell all the time. Management TELLS the employees exactly what cell they will be working in, sometimes daily, sometimes weekly and sometimes monthly, but they WILL rotate through multiple work cells. Companies tend to dislike having a "one and done" worker that only works in one work cell.
I am not sure I would call the workmanship of most vehicles now days as "professional" level, oh my, the amount of recall letters I have accumulated from these so called "professionals" is enough to make one gag.
OK, I get it.
You consider or view yourself an elitist or at least far more skilled than all the working class individuals with production line manufacturing jobs in automotive industry for past 100+ years because you worked as a Team Leader in "high tech" industry with computers and robots, etc.
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1 hour ago, ABear said:
You do realize that pretty much any engine built on an assembly line was assembled by a "back yard" mechanic, not a "professional"?
Unless you buy a "hand built" car that was never, ever built in assembly line fashion each engine is built by multiple people at multiple stations on a moving line. Absolutely none of those people are "mechanics", they are assemblers. There job is to stick one or several parts onto the block and the block moves to the next station until the entire engine is fully assembled, they even add the filter and oil. Once assembled it moves to the vehicle production line and is married to the vehicle. The very first time that engine is started is when the fully finished vehicles tires hits the floor..
As far as your title of "professional" mechanic goes, yeah, I HAVE had to deal with so called professional mechanics.. Lets just say they would have nearly cost me $5K in a rebuilt engine and another $5K for labor to replace it for a 2006 truck if I hadn't discovered THEIR mistake of not torquing the spark plugs. As it was, they failed completely to diagnose the original problem for which I took it to the shop for and threw $3K of unrelated and unneeded parts at it and the plugs was one of the unneeded parts.. Yeah, I discovered the problem was nothing more that two squirts of throttle body cleaner to remove built up grim on the throttle plate..
The only reason I took it to a "professional" was it was my DW vehicle and I worked one hr away from home, just didn't have enough time to diagnose and repair..
Yeah, I will see your "professional" mechanic and raise you one "back yard" mechanic any day.
I have to disagree, especially with your first assessment. I wouldn’t consider assembly line personnel at just about any automotive manufacturing facility as “back yard mechanics”.
As far as I understand they are/were skilled and trained “professionals” assembling fully engineered new components, using all new parts, not attempting to diagnose, rebuild or repair any of them.And while I’m just a self-taught vintage car hobbyist & restorer, good part of my 35+ year “career”(?) has included correcting/fixing/repairing/etc countless screw-ups by both “back yard” and “professional” mechanics/rebuilders/restorers and not to forget DIY hobbyists.
All my current and recent client jobs have involved fixing numerous f-ups, some worst than others, previously caused by what I refer as “hacks”, regardless of their professional standing or (lack of) skill level status.
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On 4/12/2024 at 10:51 PM, Turbinator said:
TTR, I have no problem with your vision, explanation, and basis for your good presentation. AFTER appropriate and certainly accurate consideration for what you want/need/budget is nailed down. How you are going to separate water/condensate in your lines is paramount for a successful operation? If you know how to build a system of lines, traps, and separators AND. You eliminate moisture then that is first rate.
i decided on a refrigerated line dryer. Hobbyist, semi pro, pro metal finisher you want the thing to give you production. And I wanted production for my little metal finishing business. I could maybe/probably got by with s 7.5 hp 80 gallon tank 25 CFM OR greater. For me getting the moisture out of the lines was just as important as the rest of the variables.
Lator Gator
The Turbinator
I agree about good moisture separation being a very important part of compressed air delivery system.
I designed and built delivery infrastructure for my shop facility comprising two separate units with about 8-10 outlets in each unit and each outlet featuring its own moisture trap w/drain over 30 years ago.
Fortunately for me, I’m located in low humidity inland Southern California desert like dry climate, so in 30+ years of almost daily use of compressed air for variety of tasks, from air tools & media blasting to painting, etc, I can’t recall having ever experienced noticeable moisture concerns or problems with my system.
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Mileage most of my (vintage) cars have always averaged is a few thousand a year, regardless of type of driving, roads, weather or price of gasoline per gallon, etc., but I’ve also always hoped latter would be much higher than it is or has ever been.
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50 minutes ago, alsancle said:
Assuming steady temps for starting and driving (i.e. not dead of winter) could you elaborate on the 20-50 vs just straight 30 or 40?
36 minutes ago, ABear said:If I were to bet..
20-50 multi-vis eliminates any need for making guesses and the 50 should cover the needs for even the most hardy oil drinker possible at operating temps.
First part is relatively correct, but latter is not the reason I choose to use multi weight up to 50 .
My reasons for use of multi weight are many, one being their chemical composition* allowing more versatile use than single weights, hence eliminating guess work or acclimation to various driving climates, which here (SoCal) can vary significantly, even during a single driving experience.
* Most of this was explained to me in layman's terms decades ago by a friend with an engineering degree and research experience in the field of petroleum lubricants, etc. (His informal garage "lecture" at the time even lead my mind to come up with questions he admitted being far above/beyond his abilities to adequately answer).
Many of my far more experienced colleagues have also been using 20W-50 engine oils in large variety of vintage cars/engines ranging up to 250 GTOs etc and have quoted or sited similar, scientifically proven explanations/studies, along with their decades long personal observations, etc.
There are numerous and often more relevant reasons for choosing "correct" oils and other lubricants, etc for vintage cars, but seemingly ignored in discussions like this and confirms my belief that forums like these are more often than not wrong places to ask (serious) technical question and/or to expect intelligent/meaningful answers for most.
YMMV.
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1 hour ago, alsancle said:
Yes. It’s a family heirloom. Actually, I respond with the same answer to oil that my dad would respond with back in 1975. We’ve never changed. And then he was getting 200,000 miles out of his cars changing the oil like every 7500 miles.
I've been using 20W-50 in almost all my and my clients vintage cars for 40 years with "guesstimated" 500K - 1M combined miles between all. Pennzoil for first couple of decades and Valvoline VR1 for last couple.
I've always been changing oil & filters every 2500-3000 miles or once a year, whichever comes first, but don't personally have any 200K mile experiences on a single vintage car or engine yet.
+/- 70K is closest I've come to, but that was with a 1950's car/engine that had been driven/used (by original owner) about 100K miles prior to my ownership, likely had never been previously rebuilt and still ran like a champ with good oil pressure when I sold her after 20 years of great service.
I'm getting couple of early 1970's four cam V12 (one dry and one wet sump) "Italians" ready for their annual oil & filter services within next couple of weeks and just had 5 cases of VR1 delivered yesterday.
And while factory noted capacity for each is about 17-18 qts, experience has shown that being too much, preventing oil getting warm enough under normal driving conditions, so each will (again) receive about 13-14 quarts, which is still above minimum/low capacity, but provides more appropriate oil temps.
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3 hours ago, alsancle said:
I run straight 30 Valvoline Racing Oil (VR1) which is what my dad and I have done for 50 years. I think it is the best oil you can buy. But, the point made by other posters is valid. I would pick any straight 30 weight or 40 if the engine smokes a bit.
You have had a 1936 American Lafrance Fire Truck with a AEF650 straight 8 for 50 years ? 😳
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4 hours ago, Peter Gariepy said:
Somewhere between $0 and $1BILLION!
Sounds like a fairly accurate estimate, but since I'm not greedy, I'll accept $10K, if it's delivered in good running & driving condition with clean title & current registration or $5K without delivery or other stuff. Cash or certified check only.
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As noted by others, some engines, early MoPar V8s for example, require crank to rotate for oil to get to rocker arm assemblies, so before anything else, I would try that first by having one person (you or assistant) rotating crank while another is operating the drill to drive the oil pump.
Also, make sure the drill is turning the oil pump drive to correct direction, which in case of some engines is clockwise and others counter-clockwise.
If all bearing tolerances are correct, I would expect at least 30-40 psi, even with a bit slower drill.
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21 hours ago, Bhigdog said:
What i described has been done many many thousands of times by the corner gas stations of old, often in a couple of days with the engine in the car.
Of course some worked out better than others but a "ring and valve job" got untold cars back on the road and got the old man to work and back......bob
Not to mention, most or perhaps all were done out of absolute necessity to get the vehicle back to its daily service a.s.a.p. with minimal effort & expenditure and none were considered “rebuilds” or expected to be dependable long term solutions.
Mainly just band-aids to extend service life, which in most cases was likely already on borrowed time and perhaps due to lack of adequate maintenance and upkeep, but unfortunately nothing in common or to do with “rebuilding” or “restoration”, IMO.. -
On 4/10/2024 at 11:46 AM, West Peterson said:
Apparently a judge got into this car and took it out of gear... Not owner fault, nor mechanical fault.
Was the judge getting into the car during judging with the permission & presence of owner or his/her appointed representative ?
If not, IMO, not only would’ve this been the fault (& liability) of the judge in question, but also the chief judge and organizers of the event.
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I’m sorry if my lack of appropriate sensitivity training or comments offering advise on reality appear insulting, which isn’t really my intention.
They, along with most of mine, are generally meant to make readers, not just you or direct participants of this or any other thread, but also anyone who comes across it/them in the future, stop and think a bit more critically.
BTW, I learned all this, i.e. approach to proper rebuilding/restoration/etc on my own long before internet or its vast myriad of forums, most of which, based on my limited experience and observations, are 99% populated with participants who seem to have very little or no real practical experience to base their commentary or opinions on and unfortunately many readers can’t seem to differentiate between good advice & those not so.
I also learned very early on (40+ years ago) that trying to approach any hobby or passion without reality, including prerequisite funding or willingness to spend it, is more often than not a recipe for disappointment.
Have seen it countless times in my 45+ years in this hobby.
And as for “assumptions”:, unless the person soliciting advice from strangers on some online forum is explicitly clear and detailed about the specifics, including their own experience, etc readers and repliers, i.e. “strangers” usually have no choice but make some or numerous.
P.S. My first restoration project was a 4-dr 1955 Packard Clipper (previously botched project with no running gear, etc) I acquired in my mid-teens and while I never managed to finish it (sold it unfinished), I learned a lot by just cautious trial and error along with advice from others with experience how to do things correctly.
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2 hours ago, human-potato_hybrid said:
Does anyone know the typical cost to install valve guides? The guy wanted me to take it in before talking pricing. I want to get the rest of the valve springs off and heads cleaned up first, so probably will take them in 2 weeks from now.
Speaking of which, any suggestions for a good cleaner to get rid of all the carbon buildup?
Your engine/machine shop should be able advice, assess, clean, remove, service, etc better than anyone through your computer screen.
If they can’t or you won’t trust them, find another.Does the owner/operator of your chosen machine shop know you and/or have you done business with him before ? If not and you’ve already revealed having disassembled/worked on the engine, perhaps not having a plenty of previous experience with nearly 70 year old engine “rebuilds” and sought advice from strangers on some internet forum, etc it shouldn’t be wonder he’s reluctant to give you meaningful answers over the phone.
I wouldn’t and neither would my chosen machine shop* even consider accepting jobs from anyone approaching them in this manner, so my “opinion” may not be too helpful either.
*They currently have about 8-10 month waiting list and do head work and machining on everything from forklift or model A to Ferrari/Lamborghini/etc engines and everything in between, but (somewhat diplomatically) refuse to deal with anyone who doesn’t know what he/she is doing or expects/wants some shortcut fixes.
Not worth the headaches or liabilities commonly associated with such jobs.YMMV.
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While the advice & suggestions by oldtech are likely practical for someone "fixing" their daily driver enough to keep it useable or re-sellable, I wouldn't consider most of the methods applicable for "rebuilding" or "restoration".
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1 hour ago, TAKerry said:
TTR, I enjoy the pics you post of your road trips, after seeing these photos they have a different meaning to them. Its great to see someone hold onto (and build) and enjoy a car for as long as you have. Thanks for sharing the pics.
Thank you Kerry and my pleasure.
I really appreciate your comment about the context between “what she was” and “what she became”.
For this same reason I’ve always carried (in the car) a small photo album featuring these and other photos showcasing the reconstruction process.
Reaching for it and showing the photos has always been a great way to answer questions like “Did you built it ?” or “How was it when you got it ?” and seems to give people I/we run into during drives & travel better appreciation and understanding of “our” relationship.
And as I’ve mentioned (more than once), I’m fortunate to have had 30+ year (& counting) career restoring and working on variety of vintage cars ranging from 1906 Holsman or 1937 Cord 812Sc to 1959 Ferrari 250 GT California Spyder Competizione or dozen+ early Seventies V12 Ferraris and beyond, but can’t think of many cars I would trade my Roadster for, especially if I had to keep one or the other for the rest of life without any financial benefit or consideration.
She might be a bit of a Bride of Frankenstein, but I brought her back to life and love her as much as a person can (or should ?) of an inanimate object.
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I would talk to ARP.
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What is this flange on cowl of 48 DeSoto?
in Technical
Posted · Edited by TTR (see edit history)
Well, there were cameras even back then... 😉
... or at least I had a couple and still have most of the photos, including stacks of disassembly, restoration, etc, I took back then (my wife recently scanned all to digital format and organized them in my computer files), although with exception of couple of my own cars I still own from those days, the cars in them are long gone and who knows where they are today. 😳