1940Super
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Posts posted by 1940Super
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Ken that document you created is amazing for detail. I look through the whole thing and picked up other little details too. When I get time I'll add my own detail notes to it and send it back to you. As for the bracket at the front muffler its more like what the Shop Manual shows as the 40s and 60s series. I haven't had any luck trying to find NOS brackets except for the tail pipe so it's something I'm going to have to make myself. Yes please send me photos of the series 51. Many thanks
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12 hours ago, kgreen said:
That's quite an elaborate weight distribution device you created to lift and set the engine and trans. Every little bit of progress helps. I see that you already have new brake lines in, too. Good work.
Thank you Ken, I simply welded up a rectangular frame and attached lifting eyelets to it. Then clamped unistrut to the frame and bolted to an engine leveler to adjust the angle when lining up with the spline. Worked out well. Next thing to work on is fitting the new brass fittings on the oil lines i had you send over and then the exhaust. I remember you saying you documented the exahust brackets on that chassis you bought. Could you send some photos of the front brackets please
Matt
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I have a new exhaust system to install but I'm missing some of the original brackets front of the muffler. In the workshop manual it shows the series 50 having a long single sided bracket but then the master parts book says the 50 series has a clamping from both sides similar to the rear. I'm thinking the workshop manual is correct but can anybody confirm? @kgreen I hope you can assist here as your car should have the same brackets.
From workshop manual. Circled in blue is the long bracket and another bracket at the front that I am also missing.
master parts book pictorial. Shows the long bracket as being for the 40 series
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6 months passed without making any progress on car due to work commitments. Last weekend the engine was reunited with the frame. I decided to lift it all assembled including gearbox except for removing the generator and starter for anchor points. Minus the weight of the frame and chains the weight was about 304kg(670lbs).
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On 12/22/2019 at 3:09 AM, FLYER15015 said:
If you look at Matt's second picture, with the close up of the tape, you can count 6 each 1/32" marks, so..........
6/32nds = 3/16ths x 2 = 3/8" dia. tool to make each swirl.
If you work on OLD Buicks and Chryslers, you begin to notice that you only need a hand full of wrenches.
1/4, 3/8, 1/2, 5/8, 3/4, pretty much does it.
Back then, Detroit was not into 15/32, 11/16/ 23/32 stuff.
They tended to keep it simple, especially with the war coming, they needed to make a LOT of stuff, and it pretty much got "standardized".
SO...... by using that logic, I agree with Matt that the swirl tool was 3/8" in diameter.
But I would still like to see the machine that produced these sheets in such volume.
I agree that the size used for 1941 instrument panels are 3/8" or close to it. I can see that clearly in Matt's picture.
I mentioned the size of the swirls on my panels are close to 7/16" which is a standard size. For example Buick used that size for bolts on cylinder head, connecting rods, lower control arm shaft, shock absorber to axel.
I managed to get a couple of good shots of my 1940 panel next to a ruler.
Looks to me each swirl is around 5.75mm radius. Diameter being 11.5mm. 7/16" converted to mm is 11.1125. If the emery brushes were exactly 7/16" in size the larger swirl diameter would probably be because of expansion upon contact of the brush to the surface.
So why would there be 2 different sizes used between 1940 and 1941? After more research I'm led to believe that 2 separate companies manufactured the panels for Buick and they changed from one to the other. It's not just the size that's different. The swirls are pressed in opposite directions and upon close-up photos the swirls appear to be much neater circles on the 1941 Buicks.
If I can find engine turned vinyl between 3/8" and 1/2" will be close enough.
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On 12/20/2019 at 1:26 AM, Matt Harwood said:
The vinyl isn't a bad alternative if you're on a budget--I think I'd prefer it to paint, which always looks wrong. It's hard to tell what size the circles are; the first says the circles are 1/8" which is much too small, and I thought I saw somewhere on the second one that they're 3/4" but now I can't find it again. That's too big. The originals look about 3/8" to my eye, maybe even 1/2" but it's hard to get a good look with the way they overlap.
I have an all-original '41 Super here. I'll go out and try to measure the circles on it later today.
I tried to look for the size on the first one, could you point out where it says 1/8. The 2nd definitely looks too big.
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12 hours ago, FLYER15015 said:
D= 2 X R
And, Pie R round
The inner rings of what is left of the engine turning on my panels are not visible to naked eye, as demonstrated at the beginning of this thread. I'd be guessing where the center is
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I measured mine, I think it's closer to 7/16". As Matt said it's difficult to measure with the overlap but placed drill bits over the circle to see which was the closest.
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17 hours ago, valk said:
Doesn't look too bad, would be nice to see what it looks like on a panel. Let's see, $25 vs $1000 (I'm guessing) for a re-do. Certainly worth a shot...
Peter
The 2nd link looks better. It's good that they turning is staggered diagonally like the original. I think adding a tinted yellow laquer (said to have been done by Buick) over the top of the vinyl and it could look promising.
Shipping my panels to the US to have them professionly done is too costly for me, I was going to simply clean and polish them but I'm likely to buy one of these rolls now and see how it goes.
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On 9/29/2019 at 8:52 PM, kgreen said:
Thanks Matt. I've understood the difference between the firewall and body is that the firewall paint was applied and not buffed whereas the exposed parts of the car were buffed. Thank you very much for your input. I've not had access to a car that has not been repainted but the search is on.
That makes sense with the firewall and would explain the difference in the B & W photographs. Was the same done to the fenders? They sprayed the whole fender the body colour and then only buffed the outside?
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3 hours ago, kgreen said:
As an interesting side note and for future posterity on topic searches for this thread, the convertible in 1940 only has rubber mounts between the body and the frame, nothing under the frame. I suspect this arrangement was for improved rigidity in the convertible bodies. It is likely that convertibles of other years have this same arrangement of rubber between frame and body only, with no rubber under the frame.
I found some information in relation to shimming body mounts in convertibles which may be useful to you:
"Convertible models are to be shimmed using hard shims except for #6 and #7 center body bolts which use the closed car soft body shims. When shimming, the top should be loosened and when lowering the top , care should be taken to see that the top pilots of the windshield with no excessive strain."
My 40 super has 22 mounting locations. Between the body and frame was a square piece of rubber that was about half an inch thick and soft. Under the frame was a thicker and harder round rubber I think acted like an insulation washer against the bolt. A friend gave me a sheet of rubber built for absorbing vibrations in machinery mounts. I will use that for the square pieces between body and frame. On other forums I've seen the word "hockey pucks" used in relation to body mounts. I'm not sure if they actually used hockey pucks as a substitute or just called them that because they are similar size and shape. I haven't found anything suitable for the round ones yet and I'm not prepared to pay the price for Cars/Bob's body mounts.
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Hi Ken,
I haven't been able to find any documentation on this.
From 1940 production photos this is my observation:
Vertical section of firewall appears to be a different colour from both the chassis and body colour. This extends to the angled section were the pedals are. I can't tell what the colour is. The flat section on top is same as body colour.
Radiator housing same colour as firewall.
Stoneshield and under fenders appears same as colour body.
The body floor was sprayed with a sound insulation paint (this is documented but it's not clear to me if they are talking outside or inside the body. I know the outer side of the underseat heaters were sprayed with the sound deadening material.
Matt
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You can buy a reproduction copy of 1940 buick facts from BHA which is what I did. The book must have been printed after the seamless filters started to be used.
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9 hours ago, Thomas J. Bianculli said:
By the serial number, mine would have been black. K. Green has posted he has two engines, one early and late that do not appear to have been disturbed and both have black filters of the revised type. Others have raised the hypothesis that cars delivered east of the Mississippi did not have factory filters unless so ordered and any filter would have been dealer installed.
At least in my lifetime my car will never surpass DPC quality so I will paint the filter black. Again I am grateful that so many have responded to my query.
In assembly line production photos of early 40 and 41 Buicks it can be seen when there was a seem the filter was black and when there was no seem it was aluminium. It's possible the replacement filters were black
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I placed an order in December a didn't hear anything. Same thing about the email bouncing back but I managed to get in contact with David Landow and the order was shipped
DLandow@LandowCo.com
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On 9/8/2019 at 2:54 AM, kingrudy said:
Wish I could weigh in on this, but my engine compartment was altered by the previous owner. Maybe Matt Harwood could give you some direction. Ken Greene also might lead you in the right direction.
Mike
You own a copy of 1940 service bulletin? See page 139
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The correct colour is aluminium paint. As stated in "Buick Facts 1940" and "1940 Buick Parts and Service Bulletin"
The first filters were black but it's unlikely you'd have one of them as many were replaced due to leaking at a bottom seam. The seam was eliminated in the second edition of filters.
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Is there a misconception of calling it "engine turning"?
The term derives from the Rose Engine machine or that it started off on the engine cowls of aeroplanes?
Anyone heard the term "spottng" before? I hadn't until I saw this webpage: https://www.circuitousroot.com/artifice/machine-shop/surface-finishing/engine-turning-vs-spotting/index.html
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I believe it is leather, I have it on my car but it's deteriorated so I am going to replace it with rubber tube and paint brown.
As others have already said main function stop metal hitting metal during operation of lever.
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Found these 1940 photographs of an Australian bodied Buick. I wonder if they done locally or imported. I can see its s different radio panel
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7 hours ago, neil morse said:
Again, don't shoot the messenger -- this is not my theory but what Doug Seybold told me. He believes that the "shadow" of engine turning that is left on the metal after the decal is worn off is caused by the way that the metal surface oxidizes over time under the decal. The oxidation process essentially creates a shadowy "imprint" of the pattern on the metal. I do not have the expertise to weigh in on the merits of this theory -- just putting it out
Not that Doug probably told you but when he says "imprint", does that include grooves being formed into the metal surface. With my own panel I could not see what looks like to be grooves scratched into the surface by eye, it was only by zooming in on the photo I took that they became apparent. I'm thinking of borrowing or buying a dial test indicator to run across the surface.
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9 hours ago, Grant Z said:
I agree with your thoughts on the process of engine-turning flat sheet, then placing each sheet into a press to stamp out the glove box & instrument panels. I'm a toolmaker by trade so understand this process quite clearly.
On another note, are you going to the Buick Nationals (Australia) in October 2020? I am!
I haven't seen the details of it so I'll check it out
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Yes that's possible. Or at some point somebody was providing replacement decals. Once the lacquer protection deteriorated the bare metal rust quickly and as I demonstrated, it doesn't take much sanding for the finely machined swirls to be removed before the rust is.
1932 Dole fittings
in Buick - Pre War
Posted
https://blackhawksupply.com/collections/plumbing-brass-fittings-double-compression