Buicksrule

Maybe you should design a bumper sticker paraphrasing one that was popular in the seventies. All parts falling off this car exhibit the finest General Motors craftsmanship. Looking forward to seeing you in Auburn in July. Stay safe

Matt, I think I would try to file under Lemon Law anyway. This car was built by GM Corp, then 'sold' to a GM corp division, then a GM dealer for public sale probably as a 'program car.' You are the first HUMAN owner of the car. And the first person who actually tried to make it function as a car and not a static display. That ownership history is weird. You might just get lucky and find someone in the OH office to pursue it. Worst case, they send you a letter officially denying your complaint. Best case, they send a letter to GM and the corporate entities involved that says--give Melanie her money back. BTW--did you buy the car from a Michigan dealer? Does Michigan have a lemon law and if so, maybe that's a route to try. You could also try checking with WKYC, WEWS and WJKW to see if their consumer reporter might like to do a tv story on the Buick from hell. But maybe that's the thing to do after OH and MI formally deny the lemon request and the dealers involved and GM Corp won't do the right thing.

Matt, You nailed it with one line. SOMEONE was thinking at FORD. I love my old Buicks. But we just purchased an 18 Ford Explorer and a 20 Ford Explorer within the past year. Never even looked at the Buicks. The 18 is FWD/AWD and the 20 is RWD/AWD--totally completely different platforms. No control is in the same place and the 20 is more aggressive with it's smart assists ( all of which can be turned OFF if you want ). I would absolutely consider the Lincoln as FAR above Caddy but I could not justify the price of what I wanted dressed as a Lincoln. But my sister bought a 2019 premium level small Buick SUV--designed so the second seat ( Premium leather ) rests on the front seats dirty and sharp seat tracks. It took less that one week to cut the leather seat. Buick's response--we don't make that model any more ( changed it's name ) so we don't have to do anything about it. The thing has the style of a keds high top tennis show but NOT the good design. She wrote to Mary Barra multiple times. No response other than some twit from Buick Customer relations calling and explaining why it's not their fault. Seriously--the GM Vice President of Stupid design didn't have a measuring tape to ensure that the second seat could fold without impaling itself on the front seat tracks. A five year old child could Identify the problem AND probably suggest a fix--like beauty covers over the tracks so the second seat rests on somethign that's not knife sharp. Funny your hassles about driver 1 and driver 2. and the other stupid things. But that's because Chebby/GM chose stupid software. We don't get a lot of snow or ice but either of us can jump into either Ford, pull the sunshade out, put seatbelt on, plug phone into the cord so we have own music ( me ) or PBS radio ( spouse ). Press the start button, release brake and choose gear and go. Just like the old cars, except seat, mirrors, etc move to our adjustment settings while the starter is turning. ( massaging seats are the greatest idea ever for long trips ). The only hassle we have is minor and related to APPLE frequently screwing up the world with updates that mess up CarPlay. They have forced auto switch into Car Play upon plug in rather than USB port. I get a bigger map on USB on the 20. CarPlay gives just a small nav screen--but I don't really need the nav. Sometimes I have to plug and unplug the phone to get it to send the current song playing to the instrument board in front of me as well as the touch screen but that's the only glitch. Apple steals 50% to 75% of the screen to display APPLE CAR PLAY--just those three words. I've been having fun keeping track of the times the 20 figures out where I'm going automatically and how soon after I turn out of the driveway it can tell me where I'm going without me telling it or the phone knowing. It has learned that most Thursday night's I go to a particular grocery store, so as usual tonight within a few blocks, it mapped me to that store. Because of Covid not a lot of random trips so not a lot of things to confuse it. We may actually start seeing people USE turn signals as these smart assists become more common. If I have to do a fast lane change and don't hit the signal, the wheel has a slight bit of resistance to my change of direction--no bells, no distraction, just makes me commit to the change. If I turn on the turn signal, it's totally normal. Both cars are set to the next to the most aggressive smart assist settings due to the stop light grand prix in this city and the number of swoop and squat accidents. The Ford Tailgate seems over zealous on safety, but maybe that's a good thing based on your canibalistic caddy. It took quite a few tries to get it to close after curbside pick up. Because the store workers don't have the fob, when they press the button on the tailgate, it starts down and then reverses to full open. If I get out and walk back with the fob it will then close. But If I start the car and stay in the drivers seat with the car running, I can open and close it using dash button --at least when there is nothing and no one around. The foot thing on the Ford gate system flashes the lights first so you know it saw your foot and will open or close. If the camera or sensor is dirty, it sometimes takes a second swipe to wake it up. Matt--I think you and I agree on tech. I used to drive the IT guys crazy at work because I have some old Computer Programming background and the philosophy that TECH exists to do what HUMANS WANT it to do. If the tech is making more work for you==change the danged code and make it work for the customer. I touch my steering wheel buttons to zero the trip odometer, advance the songs on the car play and adjust cruise control speed. Other than putting the key fob in my pocket, I haven't touched the fob buttons in months or played fix the settings because they got scrambled EVER. The Ford men and women brought their brains to the design table and listened to their customers and stockholders and I am both. Ford TECH does what the owner wants in my experience and has been 100% positive on both vehicles. Just like you said on the turnpike dongle opening that FORD thought of and GM didn't. Yes they are on Ford extended warranties so if they catch the GM brain fry disease, it will be on Ford to fix them for 6 years, 125,000 miles. I have good friends that have a big, travel trailer. They are towing with their late 90's FORD Powerstroke fully loaded F350 4 door. But they are going to upgrade to a 2021 Something mainly because they want an automatic transmission and smaller vehicle. They are aware of your Regals Intellectual and mechanical shortcomings and also GM's lack of response. Chevy and GMC dropped off their list thanks to your car, and my sister's car. Right now they'll either go Ford or Toyota. Either mid sized SUV or pickup. One thing I said was to make sure they test drove the tech to make sure that it would work THEIR way. I've met Matt and Melanie personally and bought a car from them. They are good people--the kind that make people WANT to get involved in the car hobby. IF GM or the SELLING Dealer had half the professionalism and customer service skills Matt/Melanie have, they would have already bought back the car at full price and melted it down to try again. Does your new Buick still have the calibrate button near the Onstar button or anywhere else? If it does, get your camera ready and be ready for a good laugh. Start the car, press the button. If it's still like the 2015 Traverse rental car we had in FL, it will tell you "" CALIBRATING--PLEASE DRIVE IN CIRCLES''" I think that one also spoke too. That beast was so well designed that it took 3 car guys and a car gal 10 days to find the interior button to pop the tailgate. She found it on the last night by locating the owners manual and looking it up--just before we pressed the Calibrate Button to see what it would do. Sorry Officer--We really haven't been drinking-but my car is telling me to drive in circles and screeches random tones and sounds at me if I don't obey. Me Thinks somebody at GM watched a little too much My Mother the Car, especially the alcohol antifreeze episode. HEY MATT/MELANIE==maybe that's your car's problem. Press the calibrate button and drive in in circles until it catches its tail or it falls apart. TO quote my favorite doctor, Can't hurt, might help, go for it. Could also be a heck of a funny Video or a video comparison between the 41 LTD that just works and the 2019 that has meltdowns and tantrums In setting up the Fords I've pressed every button, setting control etc to see what it would do. Never told me to drive in circles. The saddest part about this is Melanie tried to so something really nice for her husband and surprise him with a fully loaded car that he had admired. She had to work pretty hard to find a high line one--and it appears that a questionable dealer sold her a lemon that had been used by GM as a show car. SOMEBODY had to know this car wasn't right. Guess we are back to Matt's point. Ford's Engineers, designers and software people are smart enough to build something with tech that works the way the customer wants and does NOT do or make the owner do DUMB things. Stay safe and let's hope that we can all meet at the Cleveland National in July 2021. If the BCA were to create a Lemon Class--you might have a first prize winner there.

Matt Try Lemoning it. Worst case, it won't work. Best case, Dealer will go to bat with GM and they will pull it, write it off and destroy it. Cheaper to write you a check for it than to repair it. Option 2--go online and put the longest, highest mileage factory warranty on it you can so THEY have to fix it for the next six or seven years or so. Then drive it, let the kids drive it to school when they get their licenses, and every time it needs service show up at the Buick dealer with your extended warranty, pay the $50 or $100 deductible and let them fix it. And fix it. And fix it. And fix it. If it dies on the road and GM has road side service--call them, not AAA. Oh--and when Melanie Drops it off at the dealership and you don't get a rental car, show up in the 41 or other REAL BUICK to pick her up. Maybe with some creative signage on the old Buick.

Marty/Dei, It looks like Dei's Limited is going to be a VERY nice car. Serious suggestion. Anyone planning to have their car judged by AACA or BCA or any other organization really should join the organization and purchase a copy of the judging manual. If possible, attend that club's national meets, go to judging school and participate in the judging process. Participating as a judge gives owners/restorers a much better handle on what factory correct restoration ( as opposed to over restoration ) actually is. The wire wheel issue was a big deal for the Buick Club a number of years ago. I will paste an excerpt from the BCA Judging Manual, available online at www.buickclub.org. The person who restores or pays to restore the car, gets to do it the way he or she wants. But, if the owner wants to have it judged by AACA/BCA or any other entity, then when his/her way is not factory correct, no sniveling if it gets caught by the judging team. The 53/54 Skylark Wire Wheels are not considered factory correct for 1958 Buicks. If someone could provide Buick Factory documentation to the BCA Chief Judge that shows Buick Engineering approved the use of the wire wheels on 58's then this could change. There is or was a piece of factory documentation that ordered dealers NOT to put the wire wheels onto cars with the Aluminum Front Brake drums, which pretty much settles the issue for 58's. I believe the issue was the increase vibration of the wire wheels would not play well with the aluminum brake drums, leading to drums self destructing. Anecdotally, a friend of a friend actually tried to run Skylark Wires on a generation 1 or generation 2 Riviera when the Riv was a new car and NEW wires could still be purchased from Buick. As I recall, he gave up fairly quickly. Even spending every weekend adjusting spokes and multiple wheel alignments could not fix the drivability issues. So, bottom line, if you like Skylark wires on 58's, go for it. But in terms of Buick Club judging, it will result in mandatory deductions for incorrect wheel type which will stop the car from receiving a BCA Senior Award. The points deducted will also be enough that it will be unlikely to take a Gold award either.. If you don't care about judging and like wires, there is another option that I have seen done on at least one 58 and looks really cool. The 53 Buick Supers and Roadmaster's had a wire wheel hubcap with a really cool V center emblem that actually looks similar to the bombsights and hood ornament on the 58. I've seen at least 1 58 Super two door hardtop wearing those 1953 wire hubcaps. It looks really good. The car is Black and is also wearing the more correct continental spare tire kit. It's not the traditional sun deck with the bumper 2 feet behind the rest of the car, but rather the bumper bullets are in the correct position and the center part of the bumper sweeps out and wraps around the spare tire. Looks much cooler than the sun deck continental kit in my opinion. Here is the excerpt from the BCA Judging manual that is available online. 7. WIRE WHEELS a. Were available from 1922-1935, 1953 (Skylark only), 1954 all but Series 40, 1955 all Series, and none until the 1978 Riviera 75th Anniversary model. Wire wheels must, of course, use tubes. b. Were available in stainless wire from 1929-1932. All Series were available in 1932through 1935. Examples are exceedingly rare. c. Were available in stainless wire form 1929-1932. All Series were available in 1932, but none have been documented to exist. d. Non-authentic use of chrome wire spoke wheels on models other than these must, of course, carry the mandatory deduction. STEEL WHEELS 1933-1935 Steel spoke wheels were introduced to have the appearance, but not the problems, of wood wheels. They were mostly painted lower body color, but not always, and were two-tone, with a pinstripe separating the colors at the drop center ridge. There was also a scalloped pin-stripe reminiscent of wood wheel striping. color were coordinated with the body color and pin-striping. 1936-1954. 1936 was than last year for steel spoke rims. Steel wheels were painted body color of the car as standard equipment . Stainless steel trim rings are available as options. Pin-striping on the 1937-1954 model years had the conventional 3-stripe concentric pattern, with the center stripe being slightly wider that the outer. 1938-1958. Optional red wheels. Dante red was used form 1938-1951. From 1952-1958 different hues of red, each typical of the year, were used. 1959-1962. The optional wheel color was black. 1963 and later. Standard wheel color was black with standard wheel covers. With standard hubcap, and no factory trim rings, wheel color continued to be body color. 1956 and up. Wheels delivered with standard hubcap and no tim rings have no pinstripes. TRIM RINGS AND DISCS Trim rings were initiated in 1923 to have the appearance of the no longer needed retaining rings. Early rings were very narrow and pressed into the drop center. Late 1930s rings were more elaborate. In 1948 Buick supplied full stainless trim discs for Series 870 models and in 1949 or series 50, and 70, and finally in 1950 for Series 50 jobs with 15” wheels only.10. 10. WHEEL COVERS AND HUBCAP Wheels having demountable rims utilized screw-on hubcap through 1932. When demountable wheels were introduced in 1929, trim rings or shields came into existence. these were held in place by the screw-on hubcap, and were meant to cover the lug nuts on demountable wood wheels. Special hubcap were also provided for sidemounted spare tires of this type. Clip-on hubcap were introduced with the demountable steel wheel were issued to 1981. all closed 4-door sedans, except Estate Wagons used spare tire hubcap from 1941-1946 and some1947 cars. Color was black. Wire wheel covers were introduced in 1953. In 1953, Specials had a Buick emblem in the center, whereas Supers and Roadmasters had a “V” center emblem. 2005 BCA JUDGING HANDBOOK 7TH EDITION

Dei--that Limited is going to be a beautiful car. It would be great to see it and your Special in Strongsville. I tracked down the owner of one of the other Roadmaster Convertibles. It's already in the count. He still owns it so it hasn't moved to Europe. The white 58 Limited Conv from AZ had it's first show after restoration at the Great Lakes Regional in Cleveland years ago. There's a chance the blue Roadmaster from AZ might come to Cleveland but that will depend on time/money/health of owners. Looks like we're still at 18 to 21 viable, known 58 Roadmaster Convertibles.

Adam--thanks for checking about Hank's car. I was pretty sure it wasn't blue mist originally. The garnet/redish car that Dei posted, might already be in the total, if Charlie bought it from the guy that had it years ago. That car appears to have the remains of the 2 tone blue interior. This could also be the car posted for sale on Craigslist recently. Adam, if you know Charlie, would you be willing to contact him and see if he remembers anything about who he sold the car to/where it ended up? One of the hard parts about this is the before cars that get restored to different colors/trims than they had originally. It makes it easy to double count the same car. Maybe Charlie would remember who he bought the car from. So maybe we have one more in the US. Or maybe it's been restored and is the yellow/black one that just went to Europe or the blue one in CA on Craigslist with a paint job. Gene replied and indicated that he knows of 2 Roadmaster Convertibles in Norway. Likely 2 more in Sweden. The yellow/black car that John S posted pictures of is one of the ones in Sweden. So--looks like we are around 18 to 21 known/viable cars with 3 or 4 of them permanently out of the country. Dei--the Buick National will be in Cleveland Area in 2020. Maybe your Roadmaster might want to come back to Ohio for a visit? Be great to see it there. The Special too, if your wife would drive one and you drove one.

John, I've known Gene for 30 years or so. He's one of the people I've asked to comment on this issue. As I recall, he doesn't check email that often so it may be awhile before he responds. I think he has retired to a warmer climate.

John, Thanks for the reply. If the car had a yellow and black interior, that's probably why it was NOT easy to sell. No such interior available on a 58 Roadmaster 75. Yellow and white yes. Yellow and black--not a chance. Per the 58 Buick Color Trim book. It's possible that Eddie owned the car first and sold it to Shearer. Between the cost of the leather and the complexity of the interior, having the incorrect interior is a pretty high dollar thing to correct. Sorry about the quick ending of the other post. Call came in that I had to handle. John or someone made a comment earlier about attrition rate of 50's cars/convertibles and trying to use that to predict the number surviving. Not a bad idea. It's actually been done by a guy that wrote a book about convertibles/woodies and other special post war cars in the middle/late seventies. At that time it was still possible to get information from state licensing bureaus. I did take a quick look at his book and frankly his estimated numbers remaining are probably way off. He predicted 40 53 Skylarks around in the late seventies. There are way more than that. But here are some numbers we can look at. I checked production figures from two sources for 58 Buicks. They did not agree so I took the numbers from the source I believe is more likely to be correct. Total production 58 Buicks was 241,628 cars per this source, if my addition was correct. Of those cars, 21,562 or 8.92 % were Roadmaster 75's or Limiteds of ALL body styles. If we include the Super series which did not offer a convertible in 58, there were 64119 big series cars produced roughly 26.5% of production. This is why when we see 58 Buicks, we most often see Specials or Century-the B body cars. 58.9% of the 58 Buicks produced were Specials. And, 73.5 % of the 58 Buicks produced were Specials or Centurys. Roadmaster 75 Convertibles were 1181/241628 or 0.489%--roughly FIVE TENTHS of a percent of production. Limited Convertibles were 839/241628 or 0.347%--roughly THREE TENTHS of a percent of production. If we assume that all 58 Buicks survived proportional to their production, these numbers indicate in any gathering of 100 58 Buicks, we could expect to see 0 58 Roadmaster 75 Convertibles. The math shows an expected value of less than half of a car. In a gathering of 500 58 Buicks we could expect to see 2.4 Roadmaster 75 Convertibles. In a gathering of 1000 58 Buicks we could expect to see between 4 and 5 Roadmaster Convertibles. The assumption that all 58 Buicks survived proportionally to their popularity when new is not a particularly valid claim. Even though convertibles tend to be more popular with many restorers and may tend to be saved more often than other body styles, the number produced was low and the the Limited being the prestige series that year sent a lot of people saving Limiteds and ignoring Supers and Roadmaster's. So--is the correct number of survivors 14--probably not. There are probably a few more out there. Are there 100 surviving Roadmaster 75 Convertibles. NOPE--is a pretty safe answer. Are there 50? Since that's almost four times the number of known cars, that seems pretty unlikely as well. What about 25--that seems within reason based on the fact that the sum of what we know here is around 15 cars. Maybe that number is a few short/maybe it's a few high. I've contacted a couple of 58 gurus who may have knowledge of some additional cars. If I hear anything back, I will post it. Some things that we discovered when I surveyed the owners of known 58 Roadmaster 75 Convertibles quite awhile ago. The surviving cars were assembled in at least three or four different assembly plants. It is likely that they were assembled at all plants, however I recall Terry D being very interested in the way the car builds were spread across the country. However, ALL convertible bodies were built in Flint. Because Convertible bodies involved special stampings/tooling/assembly jigs, Buick only tooled up ONE plant to put the body together. The Flint body plant. The body was then shipped to assembly plants closer to the point of delivery to be turned into a car. YES--convertible frames are special but that's ONE part, a part that shipped in large quantities to assembly plants all the time. This was something that Buick Historian and good friend Terry Dunham discovered when I shared with him the serial number and body tag information that owners shared with me. Buick put a special symbol on the body tags of convertibles to signify this Flint built body. Buick convertibles were built this way for quite a few years, but I do not remember the first and last year this was done. Terry D had locked down that data but unfortunately he's not around to weigh in on this discussion. So, at this point, we have concrete evidence of 14 to 15 viable 58 Roadmaster 75 Convertibles surviving to become hobby cars. How many are out there to be discovered, probably a few, but not many. A few years ago, a previously unknown Duesenberg was discovered. Duesenbergs have been tracked MUCH more carefully than any Buick. But, if I remember the article correctly, the car was KNOWN about but there were issues actually finding it. It's also possible that I am merging two situations--one where the car was known about but there were issues actually finding it and the owner and one that had literally dropped off everyone's radar. Since we have some 58 folks on here, particularly Dei who has been into them for years and also is in Canada, there is one piece of rumored documentation about 58 big series cars that would be a big deal if it were found. Buick records indicate that Roadmaster's and Limiteds were only built with the Flite Pitch Dynaflow Transmission. Surviving cars OFTEN have the incorrect according to factory documentation Variable Pitch Transmission. This is NOT an easy change. There are a lot of bits and pieces involved in making this change. Years ago, a Buick service manager told me that Buick did a factory authorized retrofit for Flite Pitch cars that had transmission issues. I have all 58 Service bulletins. No mention of this retro fit anywhere. Later some people higher up in the Buick food chain told me that in this era of 90 day or 3000 mile warrantees, prior to the feds getting involved, the zone office ( most likely ) or dealers may have received a letter telling them how to obtain factory support/parts/bill Buick to make this change if a customer's Flite Pitch car could not be fixed to the customer's satisfaction, especially if it occurred during warranty repair period. This could have been a situation where dealers were told to call the zone office for transmission issues and then the zone handled it quietly which means written documentation is even more scarce than if this sort of under the table recall was announced very publicly to all dealers. People have been looking for this documentation since the seventies or eighties. If anyone has this documentation, please either post it or send it to the Buick Club Office or BCA Chief Judge. The 58's drive beautifully with Flite Pitch. It's a very different transmission than the Variable Pitch Dynaflow. It performs much better. BUT--NEVER, NEVER put the car into G-, unless you are about to slam into a brick wall and have no brakes. On the Flite Pitch, G is a transmission brake. It's designed to PREVENT all acceleration and slow the car down on a down grade. If you put the car in G and then accelerate, you are pouring power into the front of the transmission, G causes the fluid flow to be essentially reversed to try to slow the car/engine down. This is over simplified but basically the engine is pouring power into one part of the torque converter. Another part of the torque converter is sending fluid back trying to STOP the first part from moving. Liquids don't compress. You just broke the transmission. In the early 50's with first generation Dynaflow, drivers used to put the car in low, floor it and then shift to drive to try to get better performance. Starting with the 53 Dynaflow, this really wasn't needed as they added more turbines to the transmission. In 55 or 56 they added the Variable Pitch Stator blades which made the whole start in low and shift manually pretty silly. But people still did it. Variable pitch Dynaflows will tolerate this treatment. Flite Pitch Dynaflows will break if treated this way, possibly even the first time. So--it's 1958. You just bought your Roadmaster 75 or Limited. You've been playing the start in low game and you decide to take your brand new, expensive car out and impress someone with it's acceleration. A few minutes later your brand new Buick is making very expensive and unpleasant noises as it sits stationary on the side of the road. The owners manual clearly states do NOT put the car in G and accelerate. But who reads those. The salesman might have told you but you didn't listen. Second and third owners are even less likely to have gotten the word so even if the first owner didn't break the Flite Pitch, later owners may not have been so lucky. After the car was a few years old, transmission issues often meant a short trip to the junk yard. Another fun fact from someone at Buick. I was told by someone who would know that the SON of the Flight Pitch Dynaflow was the Super Turbine 400 from 65-67. The one with the variable pitch stator which remains one of the best transmissions Buick/GM ever Built. BUICK was responsible for the torque converter. That's probably where the high quality came from. Other than the ST 400 shifts, the Flite Pitch and the ST 400 have a very similar drive feel. A well sorted out Flite Pitch car will get off the line faster than a Variable Pitch car. My dad always said when his 58 was new, it could do 0 to 100 in one lunge. Don't know about 100, but we have 75 mph speed limit and the flite pitch cars are perfectly happy to do 0 to 75 in one lunge , and surprisingly rapidly for such a large and heavy car. Sorry this is long. Hope some of it is interesting or useful.

John, If you were the guy with the vette and the straight 8 Buick, you might remember the owners of the silver convertible that Wildcat 70 found. He's toured with them more often and more recently than I have. Is the yellow car that you posted photos of the car that was owned/purchased restored by a doctor named Eddie in FL? You mentioned that it was sold off in a collection of about 30 cars. Eddie had a fairly large collection of cars at one time. Marty--did you buy their four door Roadmaster as well as the Convertible? On the numbers issue. I emailed Frank to see if he would share how many 75C's he has in the registry. He may show up here and post himself or not his choice. I have also emailed another guy that tends to know a lot about the whereabouts of 58's. He may have accurate information about how many 75C's headed over to Europe. He also may show up here and post, or not his choice. Just for fun, I did a google image search. After eliminating all the wrong year, wrong series cars, the only photos google came up with are of the cars that we already know about, except possibly one that appears to be in England and maybe one more. 58's all look almost alike from the front so it can be hard to tell series from front views. It can be done but takes a very close eye.

John, I agree that the LA area car on Craigslist is priced very high. The same seller has also offered some convertible only parts recently which seems unusual to me. That's a situation where anyone seriously considering that car needs to fly there and spend considerable time checking the car out from top to bottom. It appears that the top bows are either bent or missing which is not a small issue since the senior series Buicks would share top bows only with Caddy for 58 ( and probably 57). The two tone blue interior is likely to be fairly rare and appears to be original style if not original. While I understand your point about cars that may exist but be unknown, I've been interested in 58's since I was under 10 years old in the early 70's. So, I'm not coming up with that number just by looking at the most recent BCA Roster. I've been a BCA member since the seventies and AACA since the 80's. I know of a few 58 Roadmaster Convertibles that are too far gone to be restored. I have not included them in the 14. The cars that are included in the 14 are actual cars that are restored or restorable. I've been tracking this model since the late seventies, including every issue of Hemmings since then. Very few have ever show up, and most of them that have are already included in the fourteen. I suspect that the number of viable survivors IS larger than 14 but it's also probably 25 or less. I did not know about Dei's car, which I think is in Canada by the way. There may be one in Scandinavia but once cars leave the US they seldom come back. At one time I had contacted every known 58 Roadmaster Convertible owner doing some research. Most responded with photos. But some of those cars were sold and restored after that time. Some of the cars turned out to be Limited Convertibles. Buick built 1181 Roadmaster 75 Convertibles in 58. They built 839 Limited Convertibles. We agree that because the Limiteds were known to be so rare, many more of them have survived. For what it's worth, based on nearly 40 years of watching these cars come up for sale, the easiest big series 58 Buick to find is a Limited. There are a couple other things that may be in play here. The Roadmaster and Limited share a number of parts, basically everything other than the rear quarters/parts of the rear clip. So, Roadmaster Convertibles and Limited Convertibles are able to be parts cars for each other. That probably contributed to the disappearance of a few Roadmaster's. 58 was also a very low production year for Buick, especially the big series, Super, Roadmaster 75 and Limited. Big series cars are hard to find in this year. For many years in the hobby the 58 Buick was something of a joke in many hobby publications due to the chrome ( Olds had more chrome on a smaller body BTW ). So, there weren't very many people who collected 58's. Whether BCA or AACA shows or local shows, 58's just didn't show up that often. The Specials and Centurys are somewhat more common but still not anywhere as easy to find as 58 Pontiac Bonneville for example. I can only think of three to five Roadmaster Convertibles that have ever been shown at AACA National Meets since the late 80's. The blue one from AZ, which was shown at 2018 AACA Western Spring, the Florida car ( yellow one ) you posted if it's the car I think it is, and Frank's car in CO. I'm not sure if Hank's car from St Louis was ever shown in AACA. I had a family member with a 58 big series as a new car. It was traded in at less than five years old due to excessive oil consumption. It was a well cared for and well serviced car. The 58 folks on here can probably guess why it suddenly started drinking oil. Even as a relatively new car fixing the excessive oil consumption issue did not make any economic sense. Hint--the engine was probably NOT worn out. One part had failed. Late 50's styling aged quickly, fuel economy was not great, the flite pitch transmission ( the ONLY transmission available in Roadmaster 75's and Limiteds from the factory ) was very complex and so very expensive to fix. Flite Pitch for 58 was problematic. I have been told that if a Flite Pitch was rebuilt ONCE it was fine. Buick learned a lot about that transmission with the 58's. Many big series cars were built with Air-Poise Air Suspension which was also problematic. Literally to the point where Buick created a retro fit kit to convert Air Poise cars back to springs. This kit included big round steel plates to put over the holes in the rear cross member from the air bags. In the era where cars were traded in every few years, big luxury cars tended to lose value fairly quickly. Adding in styling that people either love or hate but which was definitely out of step with the times early in the 60's, oil consumption issues, transmission issues, suspension issues all of which are expensive to fix, even the dealers were likely to dump the trade ins just to get them off the lot. Cheap used cars get driven into the ground. I will say that when I bought my first 58, in 1988 after 7 years of searching, a lot of my hobby friends were like--why did you buy that. Those are ugly. Then they got to know the car and she changed their minds. The Mustangs/ tri five chevies and all the rest of the cars that can be built out of a catalog are many, many magnitudes easier to restore than any 58 Buick, especially the big series. For what it's worth, there is a similar situation with 53's. I have a friend that is a 53 Roadmaster Convertible expert since the seventies. While they built something like twice as many Roadmaster Convertibles in 53 as they did Skylarks ( 1690), there's been a 53 Skylark for sale somewhere every month for years, but you will search a long time to find a Roadmaster Convertible. The 53 Roadmaster's and Skylarks share quite a few parts so it's likely that the low survival of the 53 Roadmaster was impacted by some becoming parts cars for Skylarks. One of the reasons I agreed to get involved in this discussion is I'm hoping that some additional cars will come out of hiding with some photographs--like Dei's did. If John is right and there are dozens of 58 Roadmaster Convertibles out there in garages, it would be great to see that. But from what I've seen, I bet the final tally will land somewhere between 14 and 25--probably closer to 14. For what it's worth, I don't care WHAT the value of 58 Buicks happens to be. Ours have been wearing a NOT FOR SALE signs since 1988, 1994, 1997. That will not be changing any time soon. By the way, John, if you are the John in PA who likes to tour in a straight 8 Buick and also a generation 1 Corvette, we know each other.

So far it looks like the roughly 14 known is pretty accurate. None of these cars posted are a surprise. The silver with red interior convertible is the one that RV/PL/AE remember from the St. Augustine Tour about 20 years ago. At the time it was owned by a very nice couple from maybe Illinois. I think they lived in the less urban part of the state. They also had a silver Roadmaster 75 4 door. The owner did most or all of the restoration work himself. Both cars were very well done. I remember riding in the convertible in Florida at least one day of the tour. Hank Degelman fell in love with the Blue car from Arizona at the 95 Chicago National. It wasn't for sale so Hank searched through the BCA, possibly buying one of the cars that was known at that time. The AZ car is restored to the colors it was built with according to the body plate, and runs the correct Flight Pitch Dynaflow. It's possible that Hank's car was not originally blue. If someone, maybe Adam, has a photo of the body tag, we can tell. Knowing if it was originally another color might help determine if it came from another BCA member. Because he liked the AZ blue one, he chose to restore as a blue mist car. As I recall, Hank's car has the Variable Pitch Dynaflow. Hank's car was a very nice car. The most recent BCA Roster lists 10 Roadmaster 75 Convertibles, most of which have either been mentioned or posted here. If someone in the St Louis chapter asks around at a chapter meeting, it's possible that someone might remember what happened to Degelmans car.

The 57 color trim book photos above show the correct belts for 57 and 58 through the early sixties. This question came up some time ago and documentation was found showing Buick used the same belts through 61, or 62 or 63, cannot remember which year was the final year. The buckles shown in the color trim book could have come with a smooth chrome finish or a pebble chrome finish. I suspect that Buick purchased a run of those belts in the late fifties and continued to supply them to dealers until the supply ran out/front seat belts became mandatory in 65. In my junk yarding days, I looked pretty hard for belts matching those color trim books and only found them in Buicks. A conversation with Terry Dunham years ago about seat belts, he mentioned that when he or a friend got a 66 Caprice company car, no one had seen a seat belt release using a button before. I had a relative order a new 62 Falcon Squire wagon with the friction style seat belts--the DC 3 style mentioned above. Whether those were Ford factory accessories or dealer who done it's, I have no way of checking. I do recall those belts being in some other Fords of that era when I was growing up. The Pebble finish webbing belts that a couple of people have posted looks again like aftermarket or possibly Ford/Mercury belts. I have a couple of those belts that came out of the rear seat of a car ( Buick ) from an original owner who said they had moved those belts over from the Mercury they traded in when they bought the new Buick. In earlier junk yarding days, I've seen those belts in many makes of cars from the late fifties/early sixties. Those smooth buckles with the smooth webbing look a lot more like Chevy/Pontiac belts from around 62-63. Starting about 64, GM and Buick became very consistent about seat belt styles-color matched buckles for the mid sized cars and the fancy chrome ones for the big cars but even at that, I've seen cheaper belts in big cars and fancy belts in A bodies so. Definitely check the BCA Judging handbook ( or whatever club you intend to have judge the car, if any ). If I remember correctly, safety belts done in a workmanlike manner that appear to be period correct should receive NO deduction for authenticity. Based on that, any chrome buckle belt, installed in a manner appropriate for the car/era should be fine. Somewhere I have a photo of the correct belts in a 58 Buick. Hope this helps,