[The Car Culture is Alive and Well.....Just Different]

A few more pictures with the variety of cars

 

 

 

 

[The Car Culture is Alive and Well.....Just Different]

22 minutes ago, zepher said:

Looks like a great turnout and there were a ton of different cars there.

The Datsun pickup that was next to you was about a 1964, far older than the 1972 Datsun PL521 pickup I used to own.

That Datsun was beauty.  Here is a picture of the motorcycle in the back of it.  

[The Car Culture is Alive and Well.....Just Different]

12 minutes ago, Paul Dobbin said:

Kfle,

Sarasota has always been a place for BIG Car Evemts.   When we lived in St. Petersburg, annually we would go to Sarasota for the

Devereaux Classic Car Show with about 2000 cars some years.    Lots of fun stuff to see and admire.   The show started as a Packard Show

at Devereaux's home but grew to the Go Cart Track, then the Fairgrounds, then the Sarasota Mall, The Venice Airport and on and on.  It was a

January must do event and it was only 50 miles away.

 

I woud not recognize you driving that Cobra.   Looked like a tall skinny guy with a little gray facial hair.  Comgratulations on that restoration.

The rat rod truck wiht the big wheels and tires, looked like a road hazard with no visability for the driver.   Only thing it needed for total blindness

for the driver would have been Side Mounted spares discussed in another thread.

 

Interestingly enough on that Rat Rod, I was driving to the event at about 715 in the morning and that Rat Rod was right in front of me making the turn down the road to the event.  I quickly got around him as I didnt want to be hit!  I dont know how people are able to drive those.  

[The Car Culture is Alive and Well.....Just Different]

So yesterday was the second time that I went to the Sarasota Cars and Coffee event at the University Town Center.  The event happens the second Saturday of every month year round here in Florida.  They fill all parking spaces up with 600 cars by 8:30am and have to turn people away.  There is no cost, except they recommend a $10 donation to the charity of the month and this month was a Toys for Tots toy drive.  The most amazing thing is the average age of the people that bring cars and the crowd!  I am about 50 years old and I feel old there.  I brought my Superformance Cobra (Yes it is not a 1965 original, but was factory built and licensed by Shelby in 2003) to the event and on one side of me I had a guy in his 40's with a 1980's Datsun pickup with a 1980's Honda motorcycle in the back, behind me I had a 1990's Infiniti sport coupe that was in primer as the 23 year old guy was working on it and to the right of me I had a 1960 Nash Metropolitan that a couple in their 30's owned.  

 

No cost, no registration for the event, no car club, no judging, just a lot of people showing up to show their love of the automobile.  Lots of spectators there as well and some of the most amazing conversations about cars that I have had lately at an event.  So many young people stopping by and talking to me about their projects and wanting to talk about V8 engines and performance.  Yes there were restomods, new exotic cars, street rods, rat rods, but mixed in you had the muscle cars, classic cars, and even some prewar.  That didnt matter though, because everyone was there to show their love and appreciation for cars and hang out with other people that cared about cars.  

 

The first picture here is one that someone posted on Facebook of me driving the Cobra out.  You can see the crowd and notice how they look much younger than what we always talk about at car events.  The rest are some other pictures including an aerial shot that shows the partial number of cars at the monthly event.  

 

This Rat Rod was built by a guy in his 30's

This was his wife answering questions about it

Of course there were the exotics

 

Some guy drove his $2.8 million Bugatti Chiron to the event and his car guy that came in another car brought the rope to rope the car off 🙂

 

The younger people love their earlier European and Japanese cars.

 

A younger guy bringing his dad in his older Ford Mustang.

 

 

[A couple of indications of how automobiles are fading from modern times.]

On 12/8/2022 at 5:28 PM, 1912Staver said:

Just a couple of data points that struck me as I did a few errands today. Not directly Vintage car , but the perception of Motor Vehicles in general in the current world. 

 Dropped in to my local new car dealer today to pick up a part that they had ordered in for me. Good sized dealer, I am sure they sell a lot of cars in a year. I could barely find the parts dept. The Service receptionist said go over to that little wicket at the side and ring the bell. A parts person responded quickly enough, I expect from the Parts counter serving the Service area. 

 Point is there wasn't even a Parts Dept sign , just a small counter with a bell. Perhaps I am showing my age , but I clearly remember the later 1970's when I worked in a Dealer parts dept. Saturday especially , the public, walk in  parts counter would be staffed with 4 or 5 countermen and often several customers would be waiting in a take a number line up for their turn. A serious volume of parts sales on a typical Saturday.

I guess very few private owners actually do their own work on their cars these days. And those that do find most of what they need online.

 Second stop took me to my local public library. I decided to have a look at the Automotive section. I have noticed the selection of Automotive books at the library has been slowly shrinking over the last decade or so. At one time there were lots of Automotive books , and manuals.  Today the selection had shrunk beyond anything I could have imagined a decade or two ago.  Not one single book ! Not even a Consumer reports book. 

 Has the general public really turned its back on motor vehicles except to view them as a necessary evil ? Hold your nose and use one, but no more interest than you would have in your kitchen toaster ?

 Feeling a bit out of step with the world. 

I really don't think these two anecdotes can really be indicators on automobiles fading from modern times. 

 

1. People really dont work on their own modern cars anymore so why would you need to go buy parts for yourself?  Also, who goes to the dealer to buy parts?  Way overpriced.  There are five auto parts stores within 8 miles of me, plus you have lots of online auto suppliers.  So if there is someone who wants to do their own work there are better options than the dealer. 

2.  No one goes to the library anymore as people dont read physical books.  I find the information I need on autos from online or places like youtube.  You can pretty much find anything you need on how to fix a car on any model for the last 20 years.  

 

Here in Florida, there are more cars than ever as traffic is way worse and they have to widen just about every road and there are still traffic jams.  I sure wish more people would stop driving!

 

On another anecdotal point of how people still love cars.  I went to the Sarasota Cars and Coffee yesterday morning and over 600 cars.  I am about 50 years old and I felt older than most people that brought cars there and the crowd that came to see them.  Here is a picture from facebook that someone captured of me driving my Cobra out and you can see the younger looking crowd that looks a lot different than the typical car show that we post about on here.  Also, a partial aerial shot of the gathering for this monthly event.  

 

[Disc wheels; 25" and taller]

I answered my own question after looking through more of my materials that I have.  The Cole Aero 8 Sport Sedan came with Tuarc Steel Wheels from the factory.  The details mention 25" steel wheels for the Tuarcs on the Cole.  

 

While the regular Cole Aero Eight Sedan came with Disteel Wheels from the factory.  

 

[Disc wheels; 25" and taller]

4 minutes ago, 1912Staver said:

Thats quite a press. Imagine what your back would feel like after loading and unloading disks of steel into that monster all day.

Back when men were men! 

 

Now that I am looking at all of this, I think this compact mirror that was given out at a Cole Dealer shows the Cole with Tuarc wheels.  What do you think?  I always thought when I looked at this that the steel wheels were larger than the typical Disteel wheels that were more typical on Coles.  

[Disc wheels; 25" and taller]

3 minutes ago, 1912Staver said:

I have never seen the Gier part of the name mentioned before.  They do look quite big. 25 " or perhaps even 26 ".  Rare to see disk wheels that large.

Here are some pictures of the manufacturing from the same brochure.  

[Disc wheels; 25" and taller]

Here is a Tuarc Brochure and picture on a Cole.  You can see the disc's are bigger than the typical Disteel Disc Wheels that Cole regularly used.  

 

 

Here are the factory issued Disteel wheels.  You can see the size difference for sure. 

[Do cars look better with side mounts?]

I know many are saying they look better on bigger cars but I love the model a roadster with side mounts.  When I see one without sidemounts it just doesn’t look right to me.   I think it depends on the car.   

[Period images to relieve some of the stress]

1922

[Car Club Declining Membership]

13 minutes ago, 8E45E said:

To make a club work (automotive or otherwise), it is up to YOU to be a part of it and help make it work.

 

Pressure is a necessary evil, especially if you take on a responsibility of being the editor of the club magazine, or wants to host the annual zone meet one year.  It takes work and some stress to make everything run seamlessly, and many don't realize the effort it takes.

 

Craig

I completely understand the effort.  I did the newsletter for the MARC regional club for a year, I started the Cole Motor Car registry and got it accepted as an affiliated region in the HCCA, sit on the board of a car museum, and have held board positions in local clubs.  I am also one of  the founders and event leaders for one of the largest brass era events in the country.  I have stopped doing most of it because the reward is not there and the desire to change and adapt is just not there for many of these organizations.  As they say....the times are a changin

[What Car Clubs do you still belong to and why?]

I belong to too many clubs and look at it as support for those organizations.  I really don't have time for the 'meetings' and periodic activities though do attend some of the shows and tours.  I find the existing club structures to be too heavy handed and bureaucratic.  I get stacks of magazines that I never read as they should be online and easily searchable.  I do own cars that are eligible in all of these clubs but as far as information on the cars themselves I can easily connect with my network of people that I know for support or find stuff online in different groups.  So, to answer the question on why I belong to the clubs, it is either because I have to in order to participate in an event or two that I want to during the year or because I am just supporting the organization.

 

Here are the clubs I belong to:

HCCA + local

CCCA + local

AACA + local

MARC + local

Model T 

 

and here is a recent stack of mailings from the clubs that I never even open up.  I dont think I have read an AACA magazine in 2 years.

 

[Car Club Declining Membership]

15 hours ago, Hans1965 said:

Kfle, you absolutely nailed it. Everything said. I am 57 and completely agree. What would then people 10-20 years younger say? Are here any? 

I am in no real world car club, I go to an open car meet nearly every Sunday morning and enjoy the company, no time table, no pressure, you talk or you don't. I get a coffee and there is a barbeque, enough for most men. I am so busy and stressed out at work I really do not want one thing only - pressure. And there is plenty in today's world, much more than 20 years ago or even 10. And btw here in my country I do not even know if there is any judging of classic cars. I do not need it at all. What I am missing in the real world is the advice and the encouragement that I get on this forum. You guys are my club, although I have never seen anybody in real. Thank you. 

Agreed.  You said something key here is that no one wants additional commitments or pressure in today's world and the formal clubs feel like pressure at times.  I still belong to many clubs because I am fortunate enough to have the ability to pay for the club memberships and I look at it as support for those organizations.  Then even all of the printed magazines show up at the house and I don't even have time to read all of them so they sit there unopened and on the list of something else to deal with.   With my limited time, I want to spend it with the cars and friends who enjoy cars as well.  

 

There is a huge gap in how retired older people want the clubs to run and how the younger generation want their car experience to run.  As long as this gap exists and isn't handled by existing clubs, they will continue to decline and it wont be because there is less interest in the cars themselves!

 

 

[Car Club Declining Membership]

Traditional car clubs are too heavy handed and have too much bureaucracy in today's world.  I am 51 years old and I am not a fan at all of going to a meeting and having all of these people in positions run through a meeting creating motions, taking notes, having votes, and then planning things out for a year.  Then you pay annual fees for the honor of participating in that structure and you get a paper-based magazine that then you need to figure out how to dispose of and cant search easily.  If this is how I feel, think of how the younger instant gratification generation feels.  

 

Down in Florida, I have become involved with other Cobra and super car owners and it is a different world.  A lot of young very enthusiastic car people.  The way these 'clubs' work is they have a text group/snapchat group or sometimes a facebook group if there are some more old timers involved.  They just correspond on there and guess what, if everyone wants to do a cars and coffee, then someone says lets all meet up here at this place about a week or two before the day.  If we want to do a tour, someone says we are going to do a tour in three weeks and we are going to start at this location in Tampa, stop in Sarasota at Ford's garage for lunch' and then we will end in Ft. Myers at a food bank to help out with some hurricane relief.  If there is the cost to one of these ad hoc tours we all just throw our credit card in and split the costs in real time at the venue or restaurant.  

 

This is similar to how the very popular Japanese car groups operate and I know there is a group of pre 1925 car owners made up of young people that is operating this way in Detroit.  They just get together when they want for a show or a tour and it is about the camaraderie and driving their cars and not about the formality of the clubs of yesteryear.  Also, the side benefit of doing a club like this is that there is no cost at all.  Why do you need membership dues in today's world?

 

All of the monolithic clubs that exist today will need to adapt to today's modality of communication and the fact that people have very limited time due to jobs and other commitments in life.  People want to be able to find information on demand when they need it, they want to hang out with others that are like minded, and they want to drive their cars and get together when they want on the spur of the moment (not where they have to make a big commitment months ahead of time and pay big fees for the event).  I wont even go down the path of going to an event and paying money to enter my car and then having someone judging my car and telling me whats wrong with it.  That is a completely foreign concept to the younger generations of cars today!

[Early Jacks (Here is a 1911 Cole Jack)]

2 hours ago, 1937hd45 said:

I really enjoy all this Cole info and period photos, some day I'll see the cars in person. Bob

Anytime you get to west michigan let me know and you can see six of them!

[Early Jacks (Here is a 1911 Cole Jack)]

The thread from Lump about the Pierce Arrow Jack got me thinking about these early jacks. Sometimes we actually find one of these scripted jacks for our cars, but not often do we actually see an original period photo of the jack in use.  Here is a jack that is for my 1911 Cole and also here is a period photo of the jack in use.  The jack came in the tool kit for the Coles.  Not all of the tools were scripted.  

 

Anyone else have an early jack in use photo for their car? 

[Period images to relieve some of the stress]

1910 Cole Speedster

[Period images to relieve some of the stress]

1911 Cole Toy Tonneau Postcard  

[Antique classification]

I wonder if they were having this same conversation back in 1954.  I have this 1954 AACA car registry and it is quite fascinating with the cars that are listed.  Interestingly enough, the registry has newer cars in it that are less than 25 years old.  Here is a 1948 Tucker listed that was only 6 years old at the time.  

 

I can just hear the AACA members back then as the 1948 Tucker pulled up for an event - Boooo get that new fangled Tucker car out of here!  Those Tuckers are horrible and aren't worth anything and you cant compare it to my 1911 Cadillac! 

 

 

[Great day for a car ride in the country]

I took the 1920 Cole Aero 8 for a drive in in the country yesterday.  
 

 

[My family’s latest Coles added to the collection]

1 hour ago, wayne sheldon said:

Very interesting.

A lot of other cars in the era did have demi-tonneau and sport roadster styles. Perhaps not as elegantly designed or well built. But many of them did put the sidelamps on brackets just behind the hood.

 

 

 

Thank you about the information about the Cole! They are a fascinating automobile.

Yes that was the consistent place for other autos and the two you posted had a flat strip between the hood and curved cowl.  The Cole doesn’t have that as the curve and angles butts right   Up to the hood.  1911 stoddard Dayton toy tonneau is the only other auto that we have seen so far with the side lamps by the seat.

 

who knows but it is all we can figure out on the reasoning.  The other Cole models except for the roadster and ours had the lights in the typical spots. 

[My family’s latest Coles added to the collection]

6 minutes ago, wayne sheldon said:

I notice that the Glidden Tour Cole has the oil sidelamps mounted alongside the front seat!

The other two era photos of Toy tonneau cars do not have sidelamps mounted that way. Common or unusual? Maybe a Cole option?

Actually, all of the 1911 Cole Toy Tonneaus have the sidelamps mounted alongside the front seat.  Both of the period toy tonneau photos that I posted show the side lamp along the seat, the other period photo I posted was a 1911 Cole touring where the sidelamps were up front as that body is square.  Sorry for the confusion in mixing in a Cole 30 touring, but wanted to show the original pinstriping style from the factory.   The reason that the Cole Toy Tonneaus and the Cole Roadster had the side/cowl lamps mounted next to the seat is that the Cowl has a slant and rounding so the the cowl lights would be at a very weird angle.  So Cole moved them next to the seat.  

 

In this picture here you can see the angle of the Cowl and front door which show why the lamp needed to be mounted next to the seat.  The body/coach work has a lot of style that really doesnt show up in pictures.   For example, the front door is actually rounded down and not just with a lower door panel that is set back from the upper panel of the door.  It is actually rounded back and rounded down at the same time for an amazing look.  We have not seen any other toy tonneau that has this detailed coach work and have been looking for other comparables.  

[My family’s latest Coles added to the collection]

More cool research related to the 1911 Cole 30 Toy Tonneau.  In 1911, Cole was till big into racing.  In 1912, JJ Cole decided to stop being involved in racing because he thought it was too dangerous and violent.  Anyways, the Toy Tonneau was the four person stock racing model for endurance runs while the 2 person speedster and roadster were the speed contest vehicles.  Here is a picture we found of a 1911 Cole Toy Tonneau in the New York glidden run.  Also below you can see that another 1911 Cole Toy Tonneau won the Little Glidden race out of a field of 25 cars.  Interestingly enough, the little Glidden in 1911 was in Des Moines Iowa.  Now if only I could prove that our Iowa Toy Tonneau was the one used in the Glidden run......   Anyways fun to dream about, but interesting related history on this model.  

 

New york Glidden race Cole

 

Information about the Cole Little Glidden Race win in Iowa

 

[My family’s latest Coles added to the collection]

Here are a couple of 1911 photos of Coles verifying some of the features on the Cole that we thought were original.

 

Here is a photo (thanks to Alan Woolf!) of a 1911 Cole Toy Tonneau which is the same model as ours.  As you can see, it has the same exact tool box/battery box and windshield as ours.  The windshield was a $25 upgraded option from the factory.  

 

Here is a factory photo of a 1911 Cole 30 Touring which shows the $25 upgrade pin striping which is the exact same as on our car.  Also you can see that the hood is a slightly different color with no striping.  This lines up to our Cole 30 which has a prussian blue body, the french grey striping and a black hood with no striping.