pmhowe

Two handsome cars. I love them both. It's interesting, most people say that the classic styling achieved a peak in the 1932/33/34 time frame. I tend to agree. However, I love the look of the front end of the 1929 model, with its huge headlights. I would really appreciate your taking the time sometime to post a comparison of your driving experiences for these two. Maybe with some more pictures. Thanks for posting . Phil

Very nicely done! A fun post.

Make him wash it for you first.

I had a 1980 Dodge 3/4 ton pickup. I bought it new. I lived in northeast Maryland at the time. In 1990, I moved (with pickup) to New Mexico. In 2008, I moved to Colorado (with pickup, part way). The truck didn't look rusty. However, Chrysler apparently used water colors to paint the frame and underbody when it was manufactured. It had become the most serious rust bucket I have ever seen. It was unsafe. To be fair, Chrysler's use of water colors was only part of the problem: In northeast Maryland, the protocol was that, if it became overcast during winter, the county salted the roads. I traded for a newer Dodge pickup (2005) that apparently had a random computer malfunction and would die unexpectedly when driving along the highway. But that is another story. Anyway, I agree that a vehicle can rust out where it doesn't show - and not just in Florida. Phil

I lived in Colorado for a number of years. I loved it (and miss it still). However it did have some interesting quirks - among them, their DMV. You didn't say where you live, but it is important: The DMV offices in Denver - that are always very busy - are far less flexible than those in less populated areas. Take your paperwork and your story to an office in a small town not too far from where you live. Choose a time when it is not overly busy. Go in with a smile, and share your story. Worked for me, several times. Good luck. Let us know how it works out. Phil

Because, even if the original poster is gone, or lost interest, the post provides a legacy. I would be thrilled if the original poster came back on and brought us up to date (with lots of pictures) but, even if he doesn't, I found the discussion between current members interesting.

So is yours!

I agree with Bloo: Your stainless steel water pump shaft is not rusting. The rust is coming from someplace else. The rust buildup on the external part of your shaft looks like lots of big particles, which they may be. However, the particles were not as big when they bypassed your packing. What you are seeing is a combination of passage, deposition, partial drying, more deposition and accumulation. I'll bet, when you clean the exposed part of the shaft, you will find absolutely no pitting of the shaft - hence, no corrosion of the shaft. What you have is a minor leak problem, with some rusty water doing the leaking. I'd start by assuming your packing gland needs to be tightened slightly. Phil

Several makes of cars in the 1920s and 1930s had distributors with dual points. Some examples were Packard, Buick, Cadillac, Pierce Arrow. Matt Harwood’s Lincoln has one. My question is this: Why would Delco and NorthEast (and possibly other distributor manufacturers) design a distributor with one set of points fixed and one set of points movable? It seems to me that one would always want the points to be synchronized and the best way to ensure that is to design a distributor that has point sets that fit into precise fixed positions. So why the desire for the additional degree of freedom? It seems like it just added additional complexity and cost.

There is one aspect of radiator mascots that needs to be considered: Remember the first time you drove your car, with the mascot in place. Or, take your wife, son, daughter, niece, nephew, friend, whomever for a first ride in your car. Later, ask them what they remember. You will find that they will remember seeing the hood ornament as an important part of the experience. They may not remember how the gearshift was used, or the fact that it has mechanical brakes, or a host of other things you and I hold important, but they will remember looking through the windshield, viewing the long hood, and seeing the mascot leading them down the road. Of course, you may encounter the occasional Philistene who says, “Geeze, what a rattletrap”. Phil

Gee, now I need to make sure my next old car has air conditioning.

It's all personal preference, of course. I always think the archer on a Pierce sets it off. I think a Stearns Knight has an understated elegance that needs no fancy cap. Just my view.

I do like "...the rock tumbler full of pipe wrenches..." analogy.

I included the engine closeup picture to show the manifold arrangement. Only a small portion of the carburetor is visible. Cadillac worked very hard to preserve an updraft carburetor configuration. The exhaust pipe is actually mounted on the wrong side of the engine. A previous owner mounted an electric fuel pump below the driver's side of the car where the exhaust system should go. One these days I will correct it. I use the electric pump only for filling the carburetor if the car has been sitting for a long while. I suppose it could be useful if the car ever has a vapor lock problem. Phil

I took this car out for a short (~ 11 mile) drive. The weather today was a comfortable 85 F with lots of sunshine. I didn’t drive far enough to get onto good single lane country roads, but stuck to two lane state highways. The speed limit is 55 mph but traffic was so heavy that the actual driving speed was about fifty. That was fine with me. This car is a pleasure to drive at any speed below fifty-five (the final gear ratio in this car is 4.8 to 1). I had to wait for what seemed to be excessive lengths of time at two traffic lights. I was worried that the car might develop a problem with vapor lock, as it still has some winter gas in the tank and the Detroit Lubricator updraft carburetor on its V8 engine is nestled in the engine V beneath an octopus-like setup of exhaust and intake manifolds. I am pleased to say that the car gave no problem whatsoever. The water temperature gauge stayed in the low medium range, even at the lights. (It ought to; the system holds 4 ¾ gallons.) The car does not have turn signal lights. Every once in a while I think about installing them, but the car is so different from nearly all the others sharing the highway, that it immediately attracts attention, and everyone is aware of it. Most people smile when they see my hand signals. Many give a thumbs up. I have never had to use the ear-splitting horn.

I had always thought that Elcar was an upper mid-range car, competing with the bigger Hudsons, Buicks, etc. It certainly is a nice looking sedan. although I have never liked the seven passenger models with a large rear overhang. I looked it up in B. R. Kimes "Enclycopedia of American Cars" and Jim is right. What I found especially interesting is that in 1925 Elcar introduced a Lycoming straight eight that ultimately was tweaked "to 140 HP, outpowered only by Duesenberg and Cadillac's V-16" - and, presumably, the Marmon 16. So, if this is one of those models, it is an especially interesting car, well worth saving. I hope someone (with deep pockets) grabs it.

I took an early morning drive in the mountains. I should have waited an hour or so longer, as the clouds cleared and it was a beautiful day.

If it were my car and someone asked me the question, I would be happy to say "Yes, it's original, except for the hood and the deck lid, each of which has been repainted ." If I were a buyer, I would be thrilled to find a car in that condition. Then, of course, the verifications and the negotiations begin.

Hi John, I think that Morgans are very reliable once they are sorted out and if they regularly maintained. But then, my experience with British sports cars has been that you can say that about all of them. The critical phrase is “once they are sorted out and if they regularly maintained”. However, that is just like any old car. Since you are a British sports car person and an old car person, you should have no difficulty at all. I think British sports cars got a bad rap because most American service stations and garages were unfamiliar with them. The foreign car dealers tended to be extremely expensive. So if you were not a car person, you had to pay through the nose to maintain your car. Thus, many cars were neglected and, when they were neglected, they caused problems. Over the years, I have owned and driven regularly a 1959 MGA, a 1956 Jaguar XK140, a 1960 Jaguar Mark IX, a 1968 Jaguar XKE - and, of course, the Morgans mentioned in an earlier post. All were bought used, and each needed sorting. The components that were the most problematic to me were Lucas electric fuel pumps - the points tended to burn or get corroded. This was not a problem for my Morgans, as they had mechanical pumps. It was a problem with the Jaguars. I would recommend that anyone with a Lucas electric fuel pump install a transil on the pump. That pretty much eliminates the point burning problem. The SU carburetor gaskets in the ‘fifties and ‘sixties were prone to leaking. I never had a problem with replacement gasket sets from the ‘nineties on. In that earlier period, SU also had a problem with brass floats in the carburetors. They would occasionally develop a pinhole leak along the solder seam and sink, allowing the float bowl to flood. This was prior to the period when ethanol was introduced into our gasoline, so ethanol was not causing the problem. On the dual overhead cam Jaguar engines, this was a particularly dangerous situation, as gas would flow down onto the hot exhaust manifold. My belief is that modern replacement ignition condensers have a high failure rate. I have had a few old -and several new ones - fail. I recommend buying a 0.22 microFarad 650V ceramic condenser and potting it in an old condenser can, after soldering one lead to the inner can wall. I think that it is pretty much bullet-proof. It also looks authentic. (I got this idea from a Morgan website and have used it on several cars.) Hope this helps. Phil

You need a good ignition screwdriver to go with that wrench.

Hi John, Thanks for the kind comments about my Morgan. It is truly a fun car. My experience is with the Plus 4 models of the 1960s. In that period, Morgan made the Plus 4 in a two seater roadster configuration, in a four seater roadster version, in drophead coupe version and as a Super Sport roadster. The Plus 8 came out in 1968. There were also 4/4 models, which typically had a smaller engine and a lower body. Super Sports are the most desirable. There are numerous roadsters (and an occasional drophead coupe) that have been modified to simulate Super Sport specifications. These do not bring the money that a true Super Sport will. The real Super Sports are well-documented. By far the most important thing is to drive one. That will determine quickly whether or not a Morgan will become part of the family. The visceral reaction to driving a Morgan the first time can be quite strong. Some people are thrilled and love them and some people are very disappointed and wonder why on earth anyone would want one. I don’t think there is any middle ground. If, after that first drive, your enthusiasm has survived or grown, a wise move would be to log on to The Morgan Experience Forum. There are sub forums there for +4, 4/4, +8, three wheelers, etc. These forums are quite active and there is a wealth of knowledge and useful information there. Another website to visit is https://www.gomog.com/. This, and the Morgan Discussion Group (https://groups.google.com/g/mog-group) are very valuable resources for anyone interested in buying a Morgan, restoring one, racing one, or maintaining one - or selling one. It is also worth visiting/joining one of the various regional Morgan clubs. Some of them have excellent websites, and the members can be very helpful. There are several good books about Morgans. Most are no longer in print, but are often available through used book sources. Here are my favorites: Roger Bell, “Morgans to 1997, A Collector’s Guide” (1997, reprinted 2005). Gregory Houston Bowden, “Morgan: First and Last of the Real Sports cars” (1972). He has several books on Morgans, including one written with Charles Morgan. John Worral and Liz Turner, “Original Morgan 4/4, Plus 4 and Plus 8” (1992, 2003). R. M. Clarke (compiler), Morgan Four-Wheelers 1936-1967” A collection of road tests. (2006). So, driving one is most important. Then doing homework about the breed. The resources listed above will provide an excellent basis. Then, finding the right car and doing the usual buyer’s due diligence. Phil

Here are some more pictures. The first shows the top in the DeVille position. This is great in early spring and late fall. The second picture shows the cockpit. The seat cushions sit on a wood frame and are filled with foam. The frames are fully adjustable, using a small skill saw. In my opinion, the foam filling is a step backwards. My 1960 drophead had similar cushions, but an air bladder instead of the foam. Those were fully adjustable; soft to hard. The slots in the sides of the doors are for mounting the glass windows, which bolt in place. The steering wheel is an authentic period accessory, made by Walsall Wheels, Ltd, Walsall, WestMidlands, England.

I love old cars. My first car (when I was a teenager) was a 1928 Hudson Super Six landau sedan, body by Murphy. I traded that for a 1929 Pierce Arrow coupe. I also owned and drove (in college) a 1938 LaSalle. But that was sixty years ago. I now have a 1966 Morgan +4. So why a Morgan? I could go on about this, but I recently read a post on “The Morgan Experience Forum” that captures the answer better than I can write. The author of the post has a more modern +8 Morgan, but most of what he says applies to all the earlier models as well. Here is part of his post: “Morgans are really different, as they are essentially a pre WWII sport car, right down to the suspension, wood supported coachwork and the flexy frame. This is the basic formula that they followed with the "Classic" Morgan, all the way up to its replacement with a sheet alloy monocoque and independent suspension. There is nothing modern abut how it works. Not the stiff seat position adjuster, the flat dash with no padding above, or the friction addled, Flintstone era steering. Even the electrical systems have survived for decades, unchanged on the carbureted models. There is nothing modern about the suspension designed to press the tires into the road surface with as much force as a driver can stand. Shocks were an after thought, and not really well designed, being mostly a 50% compression, 50% rebound. Adjustable dampers were probably not even a dream back then. They were still using friction discs on some cars when the 4 wheel Morgan came along with its amazing sliding pillar independent front end. And yet, this was ancient tech compared to the more modern upper and lower arm systems used by MG and everyone else by the mid 50s... What you are driving is nothing like anything you have driven before. In fact, probably your parents never drove anything like this before, either. The Morgan company is over 110 years old, and the cars have not evolved much at all in that time. This isn't an MGA, or a Miata, or even a Sprite. It pre-dates all those cars by nearly a quarter century.” (1) I can add a little to his statement: My car helps satisfy my love of pre-war cars. It is lots of fun to drive, and - when properly maintained - is very reliable. It looks like and old car. It behaves a little like an old car, and also a lot like a good sports car. For me, my Morgan provides the best of several worlds. Phil 1. S J Morgan, The Morgan Experience, Morgan Plus 4 Forum, Re: “Plus 4 shifting poorly, clutch or transmission, Post #13 (June 19, 2023)

Sorry for omitting the link. https://gener-nator.com Don Allen specializes in converting old car generators to alternators. He very likely can either supply a Packard generator or point you to a proper source.