Jack Worstell

One disadvantage with POR 15 ( and probably also KBS....I'm pretty sure that both are isocyanate type coatings ) is poor shelf life after the can is opened. When I use it I...……… Dip out of the can with a new plastic spoon or ladle whatever I need for the task at hand Promptly put some Saran wrap over the can opening...….I don't leave the can open any longer than I have to. Then put the lid back on And I store it in a refrigerator ( non-food storage ) after the can has been opened And even so it has poor shelf life after the can has been opened, This is because moisture catalyzes the curing of isocyanate type coatings.....and it doesn't take moisture to cause this But is promptly applied it is PERMANENT. Jack Worstell

We have a 1937 Special 4dr sedan trunk style. We cannot find the data plate......I thought it would be on the firewall or on the cowl...…...but it isn't. Were should it be ? Jack Worstell

Where ? Jack Worstell

Matt Yes it is a big job …..to be avoided if possible We removed the torque tube/dive shaft/"pig" so that Lloyd could made the modifications and then of course we have to assemble everything back once he was finished A few months later we took everything back out and opened up the BW OD unit so we could add back the governor function and the speedometer function. And put it all back together again. And a few months later we took everything back out again and opened the OD unit back up....we thought there was a problem with the unit. We were wrong....it was just fine. False alarm that costs us a fair amount of time and effort. At this time....everything is working as it should including the governor function and the speedometer function So we feel for you...it is a pain to take the unit out and then have to put it back in. Jack Worstell

For our 1937 Special we changed to an eight volt alternator and an eight volt battery. No other changes to the electrical system of the car. Much faster starting. Brighter lights. So far no downsides but long term I wouldn't be surprised to see some problems with 8v applied to 6V components eg light bulbs burn out sooner. But so far so good. A little risky to make this change but we feel the pros out-weigh the cons. If you should decide to go this route and have a 6V radio....I suggest you get a "buck converter" to drop the 8V to 6V for the radio. About $25 on Amazon. ( we haven't made this change yet but will eventually...the radio plays OK on 8V but we don't want to risk long term damage to a difficult to repair item ). The alternator is a standard Delco Remy 10 SI unit converted to 8V. Several vendors provide this service Resistors only work well for dropping voltage when the item at issue draws a more or less constant current This leaves out things like radios. variable speed DC motors, gas gauges etc There are limitations to using resistors as voltage dropping devices. Jack Worstell

Matt A perplexing issue you have with your OD. If Lloyd couldn't solve these problems it's very unlikely I can add anything useful. But I have a few thoughts. First....I don't understand the being stranded part. Even if the solenoid is inoperable and even if the one-way clutch is shot ….you should still be able to pull out the control cable and keep driving as if the OD didn't exist. Pulling out the control cable locks the planetary gears together so you would be back to "direct drive" At least this is the way ours works. I am puzzled that the OD problem would cause you to be stranded...…………………... Second.....if the operation of the relay is temperamental then correspondingly the solenoid operation would likely be temperamental Maybe you have a problem with the relay and it shows up as a solenoid problem. I would be tempted to replace the relay.....a long shot I know but the relay is inexpensive and easy to replace If the relay doesn't work then the solenoid doesn't work. Thirdly...I suppose you have already checked all of the wiring...….but an erratic ground or open in the power to the relay or erratic open in the ground wire from the relay or an erratic open in the wire from the relay to the solenoid would all likely cause erratic operation of the solenoid Fourth...the oil leak. We have a seal in the rear of our OD unit and I'm pretty sure you would have one too. This keeps the OD oil from working its way back into the differential So if this seal is not right then you could lose oil into the differential Because of the torque tube configuration a leak of this kind wouldn't be visible' BUT ……….you say there is a "wet" spot caused by oil on a spot on the exterior of the case...... so I guess this rules out the rear seal as being the problem ?? When the car is parked for some time......does an oil puddle appear on the floor ??? For a leak caused by a defect in the casing.....Bloo's suggested solution should work I think I'd be tempted to use two-part epoxy paint to paint te interior of the case but I agree that Loctite and/or glyptal will work Bloo's suggestion is a fair among of time and effort....but if I had this problem I would follow his advice, Jack Worstell

Bloo Since we have added back the governor to our set-up the overdrive will de-activate below about 26mph. So we don't have to be concerned about damage in reverse. But at any rate we always try to remember to pull out the control cable before going into reverse. If we should try to reverse with the control cable pushed in and the solenoid not powered up there will be no damage but the vehicle will not go anywhere because of the one-way clutch. Jack Worstell

Matt Just curious ………...what part of your BW OD breaks ? and ………...the casting defect that causes the oil leak can you see the defect or can you otherwise pin down the location of the defect ? Jack Worstell

PS WE could have lived with the unit just as Lloyd had set it up...it worked fine. It's just that we like the unit with the governor function ( and the speedometer function) added back even better. Jack

Jim We started out with a Lloyd Young OD installed in our 1937 Special using it as he had set it up. But we ended up adding back the governor per factory and we like this better. It ends up being a sort of semi-automatic transmission and easier to drive. We also added back the speedometer drive function so our speedometer is accurate once again. The hardest part was securing the governor and speedometer drive gears back onto the output shaft of the BW unit. We had to remove the unit from the car and then take it apart so we could use LockTight to secure the two drive gears to the OD output shaft. The LockTight was Lloyd;s suggestion. I was skeptical....but it works You might wonder why we used LockTight. The answer is that when Lloyd modified the BW unit for our Special he removed the large nut at the end of the output shaft.....this nut...... ...among other things….provided compression such that the two drive gears had to rotate with the output shaft Jack Worstell

??? Your electric wipers....are they 12V or 6V or ? Jack Worstell

I recall reading somewhere that dual carbs were standard in 1941 except that they were optional on series 40 and that in 1942 dual carbs were standard on all series. Is this info correct ? Jack Worstell

So when shifting in and out of fourth gear { OD } you have to use the clutch ?? Jack Worstell

I recall reading somewhere that dual carbs were standard in 1941 except that they were optional on series 40 and that in 1942 dual carbs were standard on all series. Is this correct info ? Jack Worstell

If the EPS stops working.( eg loss of 12V to the EPS)..….the it's simply back to manual steering ….no action required on the driver. Jack Worstell

By now some of you are wondering...…………….. How much do I cut out of the outer steering column and where do I make the two cuts ? and How much do I cut out of the inner steering shaft and where do I make the two cuts ? Sorry.....but we neglected to make these two measurements. If you should venture into this project you will be able to figure this out as you get into making the these modifications....but I certainly concede that it would have made things a lot easier if I had taken these measurements. In the photos I included in a previous post you will see a sleeve at the upper end of the EPS motor unit …..about 4" long a thin flange on one end with three bolt holes...…..we cut a rectangular opening for the horn connection into this sleeve. This sleeve came with the EPS we bought from the salvage yard....part of the unit. It is 1 1/2" ID.....which makes it just right for slipping over the 1 1/2" OD outer steering column. So don't throw this part away... CAUTION....think ahead......the wrong mistake and you will be searching for another steering column...…. Jack Worstell jlwmaster@aol.com

More on Installation DON'T take the dimensions I cite as "gospel"...…..be sure to take your own measurements. From the photos in a post above you can see that we mounted the unit with the motor in a downward orientation ……….in retrospect...….we probably should have mounted it with the motor in an up ward direction. Live and learn. After you cut off the input and output shafts of the motor unit of the EPS you will end up with something roughly 7" or so tip to tip. Leave just enough of the two shafts ( 1 1/2" maybe a little less ) so as to accommodate couplings to fasten these two shaft stubs to the inner streering column ( cut enough out of the inner column so as to insert the clipped EPS motor unit.) The two couplings.....maybe 1" or so od. One end 53/64" id ….each coupling....for the inner steering column shaft. The id on the other ends of the two couplings...I don't recall....in the vicinity of 5/8" …..for the shafts stubs sticking out of the EPS motor unit. Measure carefully. Keep the fits very snug...….so the end result doesn't have "play" and wobble. Think ahead how you will secure the couplings to the shafts. For the lower coupling we used 3/16" roll pins. ……...accessed thru holes drilled in the nominal 1 1/2" by 2" exhaust adapter ( of course first we pre-drilled the coupling and the shafts ) For the upper coupling we used 1/4" set screws with locktight. We could slide the approx. 4" long section ( with the rectangular slot for the horn ) up and down a little and this gave us access for securing the set screws. Again...we pre drilled the coupling and the shafts First the steering box and the EPS motor unit are mounted to the car.....this is easier if you remove the motor from the unit which is not hard to do. The upper portion of the steering column is mounted separately later. More later CAUTION....think ahead....a mistake and you might end up searching for another steering column. Jack Worstell jlwmater@aol.com

Larry BW units "kick in" at about 28MPH. Do Gear Vendor units have a "kick in" MPH ?? Jack

For the first time today we did a short ( 20 minutes ) road test with the EPS in operation...….... It worked just fine. And now we have some more confidence that the 12V lawn tractor battery and the 8V to 12V booster ( charger ) will supply enough power for the 12V EPS. However the instructions for the booster are not easy to understand and we have trouble figuring out how to keep it set and turned on. I think this is just a learning process though. The EPS unit spiked very briefly to almost 50 amps ( we weren't surprised by this ) but I'd say overall that overall average amps is definitely in the single digit range Jack Worstell

How much RPM (%) reduction do you get with the Gear Vendor ? Does it operate via a centrifugal governor of some kind ( as does the Borg Warner unit) ? Jack Worstell

To install the EPS motor unit in the steering column you will have to remove the entire steering column assembly from the car....including the steering box since the box can't be pulled off of the column ….at least we couldn't figure out how to part them Note the rectangular slot cut out so as to preserve the horn function. Measure (a) top of outer steering column to the top of the inner steering shaft...in our case this was 1 3/4" (b) top of outer steering column to the top face of the ignition lock assembly...….… in our case this was about 10 1/4" Be sure that after all is said and done ….that these two measurements are kept. It's a tight fit...cut the input shaft and output shaft of the motor unit off....such that only about 1 1/2" is left..... just enough for attaching the two couplings to the 53/64" od inner steering shaft. Cut the outer steering column shaft off such that only about 2" sticks out of the steering box. Then use a nominal 1 1/2" by 2' exhaust pipe adapter between the approx. 2" long outer steering column stub and the raised hub on the EPS motor unit. We cut some slots in the 2" dia end of the exhaust adapter so as to help epoxy the adapter to the motor unit CAUTION...think ahead. If a mistake is made.....you may end up searching for another steering column !!!!!! More later....enough for now. Jack Worstell jlwmaster@aol.co,

We used the EPS unit out of a 2005 Saturn Vue like this one on eBay https://www.ebay.com/itm/02-07-SATURN-VUE-EQUINOX-COMPLETE-ELECTRIC-POWER-STEERING-PUMP-MOTOR-COLUMN-EPAS/323798822787?epid=772348461&hash=item4b63e9ef83:g:FxsAAOSwbfRcjyB3 However we bought ours from a local salvage yard. Note that the ECM module is fastened to the motor unit. With other EPSs I've seen these two are separate and hooked together by an umbilical cord of several wires. We had to separate the two and this involved extending the six short wires that hooked the two together ( but not in an umbilical fashion...you have to remove several machine screws to part the two...….. see the photo on eBay ) Six wires...two are "power: and four are very small gauge "signal" wire. These four small wires are very hard to work with. We separated the two because (a) we mounted the motor unit in the engine compartment and there wasn't enough room for the ECM also. (b) we thought the ECM electronics wouldn't hold up in the engine compartment Most ( and maybe all ) GM EPS units won't work once they are disconnected from the computer. of the donor car A "controller" has to be added to "fake out" the EPS ECM. These are on eBay for about $50 Most ( and maybe all) Asian EPS units will work even when disconnected from the computer of the donor car.....they will default to a "safe" mode of operation. The big advantage of going the GM route is that you can adjust the level of boost either manually with a rheostat that comes with the controller or automatically with the controller version that reads the signal from the torque sensor in the motor unit https://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemVersion&item=142461763061&view=all&tid=1632139425004 https://www.ebay.com/itm/Automatic-Saturn-Vue-Ion-Equinox-Controller-Kit-Electronic-Power-Steering/142463173598?_trkparms=aid%3D444000%26algo%3DSOI.DEFAULT%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D20190129125700%26meid%3D81e8d4cb1ebb41dea87b0c98cbba8d24%26pid%3D100752%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D3%26mehot%3Dpp%26sd%3D142461763061%26itm%3D142463173598&_trksid=p2047675.c100752.m1982 We bought the "manual" version controller...only because the automatic version wasn't available at the time. More later....I figure peoples eyes are fogging over by this point. Jack Worstell jlwmaster@aol.com

Here's a better photo of the boost converter Jack Worstell

The used lawn tractor battery....I think it was about 230CCA. We mounted it in the engine compartment passenger side close to ( but not up against ) the firewall It sets on a small wooden block which it turn sets on the frame. It's a nice fit. In the photos you can see the open fuse holder. with the 60 amp fuse removed. We will probably change out to a 50 amp fuse You can see that the battery is up against the blue front passenger side fender. We have installed a "boost converter" to get from 8V ( the car has an 8V battery and an 8V alternator ) to 12V https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B06ZXYL8PK/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 We have used a couple of these in the past with mixed results....we have our fingers crossed on this one. We should be able to test it tomorrow. We mounted it on a 1/4" thick aluminum plate inside...….up against and in the middle of the fire wall.....under the dash. We were at first skeptical that the lawn tractor battery would be enough but we have a little more confidence in it now. In the garage it works great. We'll see how it does on the road It's the boost converter that we have more doubts about If we should be driving along and the 12V battery runs out of juice....the unit simply will revert back to manual steering until the 12V battery gets recharged Jack Worstell jlwmaster@aol.com

Yes myself and my two buddies are on our 80s...……...we need more "accommodation" than years ago when we were younger. In a few weeks I'll post some write-ups describing how we went about this. We went thru a lot of "trial and error". We put a "Lloyd Young" overdrive in the Special a while back. A previous owner had already switched to a 3.9 ratio rear end.....so overall gearing ( when in high gear overdrive ) is only about 2.75 !! Yes it "bogs down" a bit when driving in the hills.....but not as much as we thought it might. At any rate.....the ease of cruising at 65mph is well worth a few more downshifts into second gear. Jack Worstell