39Zephyr

Thanks Gents for your direction on the steering box issues. Did check to see if there was any fluid left in box...more there than I thought so maybe there isn't a seal problem as we suspected. Is "corn head" grease 600W Ken? Found the gas line at Narragansett. Thanks again for your help!

Thanks Larry and Abe...will keep that shift grommet in mind, Larry. And yes! This has been fun...so far. Will go with that pump, Abe. Not sure about the aluminum heads...they would certainly dress up that engine. Looking at the ones from Kearney Foundry. Will also use 8BA valves but will try to stick with the hydraulic lifters. We've heard that Jake F. is the go-to guy on the making sure the lifters are good with bleed off etc. Broke off a few valves and then figured out how to use that KD Valve Guide Removal tool...really slick. Once we broke the code, it worked pretty well. The block was full of crud...couldn't believe how much I got out by just repeatedly poking a wire through the freeze plug holes. Being able to rotate the block on that KR Wilson stand made all the difference. Since the engine guy here says that they can only get so much of the rust out, I think I'll pour the block full of Rydlyme now, full strength and let it sit in there for several hours...rotating the block occasionally. Want to get as much crud out of there as possible before hauling it to the machine shop. Abe, where did you get that front seal? Have you used that rear transmission mount, O-ring style seal (for connecting the trans to the torque tube...blue in color)? Do you use cork for the rear seal or go with a different material? How available are those multi-carb setups? Had Jere J. time the distributor...should it be rebuilt like Jerry R does with new bushings etc.? Recommend Jerry's rebuilt terminal plates? Skip Haney did coil and will do water pumps . Seriously...we really have loved digging into this project together. You V12 Guys have made all the difference! Thank you! Wayne and Christopher

V12 Friends, How does one go about removing the steering box assembly/steering column on a '39 LZ sedan? Does the box separate from the steering column? Looks like we've got a leaky seal on this unit. When doing a '33 Ford, we pulled the entire unit up through the firewall into the car and out the top. This '39 Zephyr steering box looks a lot more massive/substantial. Had Lares Mfg in Minnesota repair the '33 and they did a good job. No more leaks etc. Does the '39 have a cork seal? Is this something we can do ourselves or do we need special tools? Is there anyone out there who sells the correct copper-plated steel gas line (from tank to flexible fuel line on firewall)? Also wondering how to handle the rusty exhaust pipe "heat exchanger" that worked with the hot air heater on this car. Does someone make a replacement unit or is there some other fix out there? Thanks in advance! Wayne and Christopher

Follow on... Two rear freeze plugs (right and left sides) are rusted out.

Update on the V12 removal operation: Thanks to the wise advice and guidance of Ken and Kenny from Alabama, Tom O., Merv A., and Charlie B., Christopher and I managed to extract the V12 from his '39 over Christmas. Just about everything you told us would happen...happened and most of it good! The intake manifold shows a casting date of 1941 so we weren't able to verify it was a '39 until pulling a head (early cast iron replacement) which revealed a 2.75 standard piston. The engine also as a 6-bladed fan, 4 spring/bolts on balancer, and oil sender unit mounted on t-fitting which is attached to a short pipe coming from block...all of which the late great George Trickett says are signs of a '39. (The KR Wilson Engine Stand V12 adaptor came from George so he was part of this experience...) We only had success using the KR Wilson valve guide remover on one assembly! The rest were so frozen that we had to use the KD valve guide driver to pound them down far enough to remove the keeper. We used a valve bar to remove valve spring tension to pull the valve keepers. The KD Valve guide remover became the lifesaver in pulling those 23 guides out through the top. Labeled everything and kept lifters/lifter bodies together...will send those to Jake Fleming for him to do his magic. Four lifter bodies are scored...looks as though they never rotated??? so will have Ray Theriault machine those and check others. Pistons are standard...oil rings stuck on all of them. No wonder it burned as much oil as gas. Task now is to find a place to dip the block to remove the crud in the water jackets...really loaded. Hard to find a Redi Strip-like place down here. Sounds as though it's not a good idea to use muriatic acid on these old cast block because of "hydrogen brittleization???" One internet source recommends RYDLYME (a marine use product). Another, "Evaporust." Any rust removal testimonials from the V12 world? Have got a local, old machine shop to do necessary machining, and then I guess we'll learn how to glue one of these V12s back together...will also eventually gas tank renu this tank, (her Houston), do brakes, rewire and hope we've got it back to some standard of reliability. Included some pics below and a follow-on... All we can say is "Thank you" from the bottom of our hearts! You Guys were key to making this a really great, memorable father/son experience! Will probably have more questions before we get this in the "done column." Hope we can return the favor someday... All the best, Wayne and Christoper

Hi Tom, Interesting stuff you share here...more background on this '39. Actually the smoke was more of a bluish color and engine showed low compression (don't remember numbers) when we fired it up 5 years ago (had changed oil/filter prior). At the time, we thought maybe rings were stuck so we were advised to fill the cylinders with AT fluid and let it soak for a couple of weeks. Drained the crankcase again, changed filter, filled with fresh oil. Drained gas tank and installed rebuilt coil/distributor, rebuilt correct '39 carb and new plugs. When draining crankcase, noticed what looked to be an inch of sludge build-up in pan. Result after all this...still smoking and but a little bit more power. Also, the oil level gauge is currently in-op for some reason so that wire/float has to be replaced.

Hi Tom, Thanks so much for your great response! Christopher found the OCee Rich book and ordered it so we're off on this new adventure. Pretty sure there'll more questions to come! Merry Christmas! Wayne and Christopher

Gentlemen of the V12 Order, I Follow the forum but have not had much to say until now...my son and I are preparing to pull the V12 on his '39 Zephyr while he is home on military leave for Christmas. I have learned a lot from your shared V12 wisdom and experience. Now it's our turn to jump into the deep end of the V12 pool and so we're hoping you guys can help guide us down the right road. The car is a 4 dr sedan with a fairly intact original "custom" interior...a running car with 43,000 miles but desperately needing rings and valves at a minimum judging from the wall of black smoke and total lack of power. Will have a local old-time San Antonio machine shop do necessary machining etc. Our job is to pull the engine, take it down, deliver to machine shop and learn a thing or two in the process. In getting ready for this project, we've gathered several KD tools (918 puller and 925 replacer), KR Wilson Valve Remover and Replacer 6510-H, and a bar-type lifter. So, hopefully some of these tools will do the job. All we need now is a really big hammer...Also will mount the engine on a KR Wilson stand for dismantling. Some questions... 1) Is the green "Repair Manual, Lincoln V12 Engines H-Series 1936-1947" #3693 an adequate guide? 2) What is the best way to pull engine...from front or side? Which engine studs do we use to pull engine? Use a chain? (Not pulling tranny) 3) Assume hood comes off...does distributor have to come off before radiator? 4) What is best way to thoroughly clean a V12 block? 5) Leave the inner water baffles installed in block alone or remove and leave out at reassembly? (reinstalling properly seems to be a mystery??) 6) Is it necessary to install the O-rings on valves that some use to reduce oil consumption? We're replacing split valve guides/mushroom valves...is that enough? 7) Can we just go with rope seal/original rear main setup with original flywheel and avoid machining for installing later flywheel setup and still get a good seal? Any wisdom on how to do this right? 8) Can we use exhaust manifold bolts to fasten block to KR Wilson stand? (Fortunate to have George Trickett's V12 adaptor to fit V8 adaptor to hold engine in stand). Hoping to stay with original steel pistons but who knows what we'll find... 9) What's the process for cleaning out sludge traps in crank? 10) How does one install new plugs in the crank clean-out holes...so that they won't fall out? 11) Recommendations on timing gear...fiber or metal? Sounds as though Jake Fleming is the resident expert in checking out condition of lifters. We had Skip Haney rebuild the coil and will have him do water pumps. 12) Looks as though we may need a new gas line from tank to firewall...does anyone make a copper plated steel line? 13) Can we go with regular fuel pump setup or do should we install an electric? Apologize for the length of this post, but this is a new experience for us and we'll need all the help available on the planet...want to end up with a fairly reliable, quiet daily driver. Delighted that our son loves this vintage iron and together wants to learn everything he can about this beautiful art deco ride. Thanks in advance for sharing your wisdom, knowledge and expertise! All the best and Merry Christmas from San Antonio! Wayne and Christoper

Thank you, Gentlemen! Some good ideas here...If a guy goes with the plate bolted to the intake manifold deck, where do the hooks or U-bolt get placed on the plate to keep the engine balanced as it's pulled out...towards the bell housing end of the block, but how far? Wayne

Thanks, Tom...after you had the plate attached to the intake area, did you have hooks attached to the plate? How many?Is there a picture available showing the setup with the exhaust manifold bolts used in The Shop Notes?

Just wondering what the part number is on this KR Wilson tool? I have one that looks very similar with a part #8000-E. It also has "85" in the casting. I assume it's for a flathead 85. Will be pulling the V12 out of a '39. and not sure how to pull that engine? Do I need something like what Jeff is picturing? Thanks!

Thanks, Jeff for collecting these "V12 Vitals!" Hope to tear into a '39 engine this coming year. Wayne

Having removed these items before, I found the best way to avoid twisting off the bolts was to use a Dremel with a stainless steel wire wheel to clean off all the rust on the exposed part of the bolt threads (at the end of the bolt). Then soak them. Only lost one bolt in removing the nuts.

Hi Mike, I could sure use the Lincoln Zephyr 1936-40 Chassis Parts List for this project we're working on. I'm at oknut4@gmail.com Regards, Wayne