wayne sheldon
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Posts posted by wayne sheldon
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If you keep it under 55, and miss all the potholes, that tire is good for another hundred yet!
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Wow! Such wild claims! Chauffeur driven? Coach-built? Over three thousand dollars new? According to the Kimes and Clark catalog, the Hupmobile six cylinder sedan in 1928 was about $1400. The wire wheels would have added a bit. But criminy!
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Some interesting discussion and comments. However, there is a huge difference between wooden chassis frames and wooden body frames! Some people seem to be thinking this thread is one thing, while other people seem to think it is about the other.
Wooden body structure from the beginning and still in rare cases today was common beyond being common. Many early automobiles used bodies that except for hardware and upholstery were almost entirely wood. Sheet metal over wooden frame became the preferred method of construction for most automobiles well into the 1930s. European manufacturers continued the practice well past WWII due to manufacturing limitations in those countries because of the war over there.
Wooden chassis frames on the other hand are an entirely different situation.
I don't have accurate records to fallback on here? However, I know that over the past fifty years I have actually seen a few (very few!) cars other than Brush and Franklin with wooden chassis frames! And I have read about a couple others. Why, I have probably seen or heard of maybe seven or eight such cars in all those years! In those same fifty years I have probably personally seen fifty or more pre1902 chassis frames made out of steel. Some were steel tubing. A lot of early chassis frames were made of angle iron. Often such frames were interconnected with the body wood making a strong and lightweight whole. I am not sure when the first true channel iron frames were made, but I know it was quite early. I once saw an early frame made out of upper and lower angle irons riveted together to form a channel.
My believed to be about 1899 gasoline carriage has an angle iron frame made from angle iron produced by an early iron and steel foundry in the Eastern United states. Cambria iron and steel ceased to exist about 1915. The frame pieces are riveted together with carriage springs and steel wagon axles, the front axle forge and hammer welded to create a steerable front axle. The entire chassis and engine is very early, and the frame is steel.
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For whatever it is worth? A mid1920s Studebaker rear end I had years ago had a similar U-joint. Many mid1920s Studebakers did use "rag" joints, so I don't know what model the Spicer one was from. I know several sizes were made, and some trucks did use larger ones. However chain driven trucks sometimes used lighter differentials and therefore maybe U-joints due the chain drive gear reduction gave torque advantage to the mid driveline. That is the primary reason so many really early large automobiles used chain drive. Before materials and production technologies had advanced enough, large heavy automobiles were easier and cheaper to manufacture with solid idler axles and rear wheels driven by chains through gear reduction. Even most high end automobiles used chain drive because not only was it cheaper to manufacture that way? In those days it was much more reliable! And they wanted their cars to be reliable regardless of cost!
Give some better photos with a size reference (ruler?) or really good measurements so that we may check any we may have for a proper size.
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I think I saw this awhile back in the "Humor" threads?
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That I would guess you need to ask the parade management about. They may mean only some of the many Scottish Rites clubs across the country? Or maybe car clubs might also be officially involved?
I am part Scottish, and the sound o' the bagpipes bring me great joy! (Tis in the blood!) I have attended the Scottish Games numerous times, but never joined any of the clubs associated with them.
Good luck!
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I have worked with wooden structures on several of my own restorations, as well as helped a little bit on a few friends' restorations. In addition to that I have discussed this subject with several people that have done a lot more such work than I ever will! All that said, I am NOT an expert on the subject.
One thing I know. Back in the era, a lot of other woods were used besides ash. What woods were used depended a lot on the application, the stresses the piece would be expected to encounter? How much weather exposure it may have? Whether a fine finish paint was needed? Along with ease of workmanship in the factory setting?
Over the years, I have seen ash, oak, mahogany, poplar, pine (believe it or not!), and even various fir. I have seen the inside of numerous model Ts, and seen that not all bodies got the same wood in the same place as all other same body style! I have been told by restorers of both Nash and Buick multiple cars that they also used differing woods from one car to the next. I suspect that was common throughout most of the industry during those decades.
Regardless, ash is a good choice for most applications in most era cars.
When I re-wooded my 1915 Ford model T runabout (on a very tight budget!), I used mostly whatever I had that was appropriately strong. I had some oak and poplar left over from a previous restoration, mahogany salvaged from old furniture, and some incredibly strong old house floorboards I don't know what they were. If I can get some time needed to finish the restoration I will be very happy with it!
A related tale.
Many years ago, I was restoring my 1925 Studebaker coach. It was mostly a very solid original car, requiring a mostly cosmetic restoration. One original running board was in very good condition, needing only fresh covering. The other running board had apparently been hit somehow, nearly a third of the wood was broken off and missing. I knew enough to know the wood was not oak or ash, or any other usual hard tight grain wood. There was a specialty lumber store well known in the area (sure miss those days!), so I took my broken running board over there. The fellow in the shop takes one look at it and exclaims "WHERE did you get THIS?" He then rattles off some fancy name I had never heard before and tells me it hasn't been commercially available since before World War Two! He also tells me that there is one lone grove of this wood known back East and that if I wanted some of it, he MIGHT be able to get a small amount, for a significant price. I told him that an exact match wasn't really necessary, and answered his question of where had I gotten it. He then told me that the closest relative of that particular tree which was still commercially available was---(drum roll please)-----Douglas Fir.
Very careful selection of the best grain board readily available and I had a nearly perfect match for my running board.
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Beautiful! I do so appreciate you sharing things like this. They should be seen and appreciated for the historic significance they are. Whether the vehicle was built or not, this piece shows some of the design work of those times. The artistry itself is wonderful and worthy of museum exhibition.
Thank you.
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1 hour ago, nzcarnerd said:
Re the Buick roadster, its painted 'rounded-top' radiator makes it no later than a 1923 model. The new 1924 Buicks with the Packard-esque radiator came out on 1 August 1923.
Thanks nz for the clarification!
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It would be interesting to know the story behind this car. I know, just understanding the era, having seen several rotting survivors, and having read a dozen narratives of such things, that many hundreds of significant and likely thousands of lesser cars were "customized" back in their eras. Such things were done for many reasons. Sometimes just because "everybody needs a hobby"? Sometimes to create a fine automobile for oneself on the cheap using parts of damaged cars? Occasionally because someone had a cast-off body they liked and whatever chassis happened to be available?
While it happened more often than we like to realize? That does not necessarily mean such cars are important historically. It does not make them truly special or valuable. And the fact that it "was done" back in those days does NOT without verifiable information and/or photos mean a car such as this was done "back in the day"! Maybe it was? Maybe it wasn't?
It actually looks to be particularly well done, parts of a few cars integrated into a single whole. There are a couple things that almost don't fit well, but overall the look and workmanship appear good.
For the right price? It could be a wonderful fun car to have for someone that cannot afford the real thing. It would look fantastic going down the highway! Great for a local "cars and coffee". But there are some groups one should avoid being seen with it? (We are a bunch of snobs? Aren't we 😁 )
Looking at the combination of parts, and the quality of the work? I would guess this car was not done back in the day. At that time, craftsmen were going hungry, and labor was cheap. I would expect an era custom to have more real custom work rather than refitting of available parts. But that is just my opinion.
Frankly? I would prefer to have a good basic model T Ford, older restoration and well sorted. Or a nice 1920s Buick sedan would be great!
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Culture changes. What we may find morally objectionable today many times was considered normal only a few generations back. Many parts of the world even today not only allow, but encourage girls of 13 to be married. We may be disgusted by the idea (I know I am), but sometimes we need to recognize that not all the world agrees with us. I don't know how those old laws may have changed over the past half century? But I know that fifty years ago, marriage to even a first cousin was legal in several of our states! (I had Mormon friends from Idaho!)
Sadly, a lot of artists over the centuries have been less than well enlightened. Richard Wagner wrote a tremendous amount of the world's most beautiful music. Yet he was in many ways an immoral degenerate. I enjoy listening to "Swan Lake", But every time I hear it, It crosses my mind that he was a philanderer, and worse things. Some people despise him so much that they blame him for the rise of the Nazis! While it should be remembered that he was in many ways not a nice man, he should not be blamed for things he did not do.
Jerry Lee Lewis was reckless, and self centered. He did many things in his life that deserve disdain from decent people. He was also an incredibly talented entertainer and performer! In balance? I think he brought a lot of joy to the world! He was never one of my favorites of his genre, in part because of his attitude and personal life. A lot of people are much worse than I think he was. As far as being a good husband and spouse? I have known a lot of people that were not one bit better than he was.
May he rest in peace. Perhaps after a suitable time in purgatory? But that is up to higher powers.
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You might be surprised how often I see seat covers on model Ts in era photographs!
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7 hours ago, 30DodgePanel said:
6 hours ago, 30DodgePanel said:
What every steam car owner needs! A portable calliope to use up excess steam!
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2 hours ago, victorialynn2 said:
Can you help me date this by the cars? What is the one that fell over the seawall? I believe this is in Galveston.
All the model Ts appear to be between 1919 and 1923. I don't see any that would have to be later than about 1922. I see I think four model T center-door sedans, production on those ended early in 1923. I do not see any of the standard two-door or four-door sedans that replaced them. I also see a couple early style coupes that production also ended in 1923.
The roadster looks like it may be a Buick, and fairly new, about 1923 or maybe as late as 1924 also. I would speculate the photo was taken about 1923 or 1924.
I don't recognize the car over the side. What a horrible thing to do to such a fine new car!
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On 10/29/2022 at 9:19 PM, Twisted Shifter said:
You can have the rest of the car.
I would gladly take it!
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Looks like you have wheels for sale? Where they are located (at least within a hundred miles?) would be very important to anyone that may be interested in them. Shipping cost will kill the deal for most people not close by.
The lugs say "Jaxon", I don't know if Dodge ever used Jaxon wheels or not? And maybe the lugs are not correct for the wheels?
Twenty inch? I might be interested if they were close by and the price was right? I need a couple rims for my Paige tires.
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That is a good one!
It made me fondly remember the famous vanishing hitchhiker story of Niles Canyon. Growing up in the San Francisco Bay Area, and driving antique automobiles from a young age, I drove through Niles Canyon hundreds of times, often at night. I have met people who claimed to have seen the ghost, and many people that knew someone that had seen it. I can't say that I ever saw that ghost myself. But I may have seen a couple others? It does make one wonder about such things.
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Now you sound like a pro!
This style of lock ring can be dangerous, if handled incorrectly. Proper care taken they are easy to work with, and relatively safe. Airing them up slowly is the right way to do them.
Between antique automobiles and '50s/'60s trucks, I have replaced or repaired similar lock ring wheels many dozens of times! And I never had a cage to air them up in. Careful inspection, airing slowly, and making sure the tire and ring settle in how they belong, all works fine. The people that get hurt or killed by these are the ones that get in a hurry and force the rings quickly resulting in bends and poor fitting, then poor fitting rings do not seat properly, and then they air them up FAST causing the ring to push out with explosive force!
It is something to understand and work with properly. Not something to fear. Pay attention, take some precautions, and be safe. One should never forget that the potential explosive force is the psi times the square inches of the tire casing. An antique automobile tire casing can have a couple hundred square inches! Even 10 psi means a potential force of a couple thousand pounds!
Now that you have done this once? You can drive and enjoy your wonderful automobile without the fear of getting a flat tire. Keep your spare ready for the convenience of roadside changes (those can happen to ANY car or tire!), knowing that you can repair these tires when the time comes.
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Looks like a nice older restoration! With a little work, and a new top, it should make a fine tour car!
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29 minutes ago, GARRET MCFANN said:
Sorry , I screwed up. Here is the correct link: https://1919pershinglocomobile.wordpress.com/
No worries. I do wish I could be in the market for it myself. But I cannot. Good luck with the sale, and I do hope the car gets a good home that will restore it properly! It is an incredible piece, and should be seen and heard with stories about its sister cars overseas.
I have a small collection of "World War One" (more properly called the "Great War" because that was what it was called in its day) memorabilia, including two nearly complete uniforms. This stuff is important.
Simply wonderful!
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I have been following this car (NOT closely!) for a few weeks. I wish I could have gone to look at it myself, it isn't all that far from me. But family needs keep being in the way. I also wish it would sell for better money (more!) because this is something I would have loved to have myself a decade or two ago (it would be easier for me to watch it from afar if the price was more beyond my means instead of almost could be done?). At my present stage in life, I simply cannot take on any serious projects (I have several project cars I need to get to work on already, and family problems that keep me from working on them most of the time!).
I don't know the people myself, but have not seen anything to make me think it isn't legitimate. Properly restored, it would be a very special vehicle! Albeit one that would not appeal to everyone. Its military parentage might limit its acceptability to some shows and clubs? And it may not hurt it at all? I don't know. Regardless, it is a Locomobile! And would probably be an incredible and impressive tour car! As well as an incredible piece of history!
That is my opinion.
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Right hand driven means almost anything is possible, right or wrong? It also makes everything questionable. Anybody confirmed what the engine is? When one of our Graham experts is questioning the engine? And the hose doesn't line up in an obvious way?
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I am not sure about this particular manufacturer, however, this type of bumper was offered for a number of years, for a wide range of automobiles makes and models and sizes. They were available in several sizes of tubing, length/width sizes, and differing bends and brackets in order to fit so many different automobiles. They were offered as factory options on many cars, as well as after-market models for almost anything.
It was very common in the 1910s and 1920s for automobiles to have a bumper on only the front! So using the front you have and not having a rear should be considered correct. If you do want a rear also, then it becomes more about matching what you have than duplicating a non-matching rear from some other car.
Simple steel bars, or flatstock bumpers were much more common in the 1920s, while a number of automobiles and after-market sellers used small tubing bumpers. the large tubing bumpers were less common, but look great on a lot of cars!
Bumpers, both after-market and factory production on several high end automobiles (like Pierce Arrow!) began showing up around 1910. They didn't start becoming common on many cars until about 1920. The majority of automobile manufacturers did not make bumpers standard equipment until the late 1920s.
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I am still here. Sometimes I get to work on my 1915 model T runabout for a little while. I haven't seen much about your WW1 Maxwell project lately. I would imagine it should be pretty much finished by now?
London to Brighton Veteran Car Run 2022
in General Discussion
Posted
Nice! There are only a handful of USA Maxwell automobiles early enough to qualify for the London to Brighton Run!
I need to check out the websites this year. Been too snowed under by family issues this year to keep up with things like this.