wayne sheldon

I am not a 100 percent, but I am fairly certain that is one of the less than 1000 true 1915 Ford center-door sedans built for 1915. They are unique in the T world, although they appear to be very similar to all the thousands of center-door sedans that followed from 1916 into 1923, the entire body (including the rear fenders) is totally different. Aluminum instead of steel over wooden framework. The interior was quite elegant, and could rival all but the most expensive cars of the day. The gasoline tank was located underneath the rear seat (and didn't work out very well). The windshield was a multiple pane arrangement that doubled as a windshield, and ventilation system, and a visor (I think I can see the multiple panels in the photo). I know of about five true '15 center-door model Ts that survive, but I do not think this is one of the ones I know of (although two of the survivors I do know of, I have never even seen a photo of?) Years ago, I had a '16 center-door sedan. While most '16 center-door sedans are total fakes, back-dated later cars, there was good reason to believe the one I had was the real thing. Unfortunately, it had also been the victim of a bad '50s restoration where keeping the car correct was NOT a priority. I had to make a lot of corrections to the car. Eventually I sold it to buy a bigger and faster brass era car. I sure do like this Buick! I wish I could be in the market for it myself, but that is not to be. Maybe I can at least bump it back to the top?

If somebody on the other end of the continent wants to get rid of some? I would be interested. I can't afford to pay much anymore. I started to try to fill in my very incomplete collection about ten years ago. About six years ago I bought several hundred (including a fair number of multiple duplicates) from a fellow in Canada.. The price was right, but as said, the postage was a bit tough. Unfortunately, one of the three boxes shipped disappeared somewhere out there. Double unfortunately, the box that disappeared had the dozen or so I mostly wanted! Oh well. Because it was USPS and Canadian postal, both blamed the other, and no compensation was paid. The seller and I settled no problem, we both shared some loss. I still filled in about a hundred issues I didn't have before, and eventually donated the rest to a museum fund raiser. It is a good local museum with a bunch of good volunteers restoring their many displays including a '20s fire truck. They figured a couple hundred issues selling for about a dollar apiece would be a bit of a help. Good antique automobile hobby magazines before about the late '60s can usually find good homes if the price is reasonable. EBad sellers tend to be crazy there, however I have filled in a lot of my HCCA Gazettes from eBad. I am not trying to get a complete set, but I currently have all the way back to 1950 as well as a fair number from the '40s. I would like to get the AACA Antique Automobile that far back as well. I very much like to see people trying to preserve most of the magazines. Certainly, it may be unreasonable to save them ALL. However you can bet that a large percentage of the current issues do get trashed within a few months. I still have most of the ones from when I was a member in the late '60s and early '70s! But I do have hoarder blood in my veins.

Some of those after-market caps had a simple way to fit and attach an adapter to work on any of several different makes of cars. Threading could be either internal or external, and thread count and diameter varied from marque to marque. A top piece and latch catch could be made, but costly enough to make this not expensive value wise. Wing size and styles varied, many dozens of different styles were marketed back in the day. That is a nice style!

I have no way of knowing for certain myself, but I have suspected for a very long time that William Harrah spent a considerable amount of time and money trying to find one of the two only cars that would have been either the Sextoauto or the Octoauto prototypes. One of the cars used was a '13 Stutz touring car, and Harrah owned and restored a few of those (one of them is owned by a good friend of mine and I have ridden in it!). The other base car was an Overland touring car. Harrah had a few of those, but continued for many years advertising for Overland cars and parts. A rather common brass era car relatively speaking, the only real reason for his continued looking was to find that one car, or even one single frame, that had extra holes in certain places. I would think he was trying to find either one of those historically unique cars to resurrect one of the cars. Reeves had spent a lot of money, designing and building, only to rebuild and redesign again in an attempt to market his idea. He offered to build such a creation on any automobile chassis of the (potential) buyers choice. However, nobody came forward to buy one. I suspect he was discouraged by this. It has generally been believed that both "base" automobiles were soon after returned to their original configuration and quietly sold simply as slightly used cars. The upside to all this, is that I think a lot of Overlands survive today because of the search for that one Overland. I have personally known several people that owned and toured with brass era Overlands. A couple of them I have spoken with a bit on the subject and I have been told by a few of those Overland owners that Harrah's quest for that one Overland did push others to find, acquire, and restore Overland automobiles that otherwise would likely have not survived. And besides, I got to ride in a Stutz!

I have no connection to this Franklin, no stake in its sale, no personal knowledge of its current or past caretakers. I wish I could make a connection, I wish I could buy it and take on the task of putting this puzzle together. I think I would enjoy it (in spite of the fact I already have too many projects I don't have enough time for?). But it won't happen, too broke, too far, and not enough time. So why do I keep doing this? Probably just because I hope I can give someone a nudge to take it on and bring it back! For the most part, antique automobile people are much better on the average than most other people are. They care about history, they care about preserving pieces of that past. They tend to care about other people. Antique automobile people often help other hobbyists, often for nothing more than the satisfaction of helping in return. I have found this to be true throughout the hobby, although certain marques more-so than others. Franklin is one such marque. I have known several Franklin collectors. Several hobbyists with one Franklin, a few with four or five, and one fellow that owned about a dozen of them. One thing they all said, is how wonderful the Franklin networking was for finding parts or information needed to get another one back on the road. I can't make promises for other people. However, I suspect that any good, sincere, hobbyist, trying to put this car back together will be able to find a good amount of help with it. (By the way, Model T people seem to be the same way!) Oh, and the other reason for commenting again is that it is listed on eBad again. If anybody wants to see a few more pictures of it (for the short duration of the listing), try this link https://www.ebay.com/itm/1925-Franklin-Series-11-A/163880948858?hash=item262810d47a:g:VJcAAOSwjJddjUcM Unfortunately, not as many pictures as the previous listing. But a few to give some idea of how apart it is.

Rule number one of old tube type radios. If it hasn't been on in quite some time, DO NOT TURN IT ON! Now, since it has been on several times, and apparently did sort of work once, you may be okay. Rule number two, if it won't work in the first few minutes after turning it on, TURN IT OFF! And leave it off until it can be checked out. Old tube type radios had old style paper and foil in wax capacitors. They can go flat over time, and often will short out if turned on or left on for any length of time. Those shorted capacitors can begin a cascade failure of shorts and burned out components throughout the circuits. My dad used to be a radio and television repairman way back when, and he collected antique radios for many years. He had over 200 radios when he passed away fifteen years ago. I know there are a few radio people that make a side business of restoring automobile radios from the '30s through the '60s. I do not know any personally, so cannot advise you there. But ask around. Ask friends with cars of your car's vintage, see if anyone can offer suggestions for either the good or the bad. Personally, I would encourage anyone with a '50s or '60s collector car to include the correct and/or original radio in that restoration. It is too easy to toss the thing aside because we don't understand it or how to fix it. It is too easy to stuff a phony guts behind a fake facade to play your MP3 on. A working correct radio is a special detail that can set any collector car above the rest! Besides, you can buy short range transmitters that work in the AM radio frequencies specifically made to broadcast your MP3 player onto your AM radio. They are cheap. I have one, and it works well. I used to use it in my modern car because I often drove to visit family through about a hundred miles of no good radio reception. And, HEY OUT THERE!? I am asking. Where can he get his radio fixed right?

Brooklyn Beer, I don't know if they can be seen easily or not, but a few weeks ago, this car was listed on eBad with a bunch of what appeared to be good current pictures. Yes, it is about as far apart as a car usually gets. I understand it is an estate thing and needs to be sold and moved out. Beyond that, I don't know the car or the people involved. It did look as thought the upholstery could be salvaged if someone wanted to (frankly, a re-dye job wouldn't hurt!). But that could save a new owner a bunch in making this car a driver to enjoy. I wasn't kidding when I said I wish I had the money. I like Franklins, I had to sell all my good cars to care for bad family, and I am good at puzzles. I already have a couple good project piles, but I think this could be a better car for a bit less work. However, lacking the funds to purchase, let alone safely transport hundreds of loose pieces three thousand miles. It ain't gonna happen for me. I do really hope someone grabs this pile and does a good job getting it back onto the highways! Franklins are wonderful classic cars.

Boy I wish I had the money!

I don't know when the Oakes spare tire lock first came out. But the '25 Studebaker I had many years ago was a solid original car and it had what appeared to be a factory original Oakes spare tire lock. The casting and rivets all looked factory done. They were available after-market, and as options on many cars.

I had a car that was connected with the Jackson and Byron Carter's history. As such, I became interested in the stories of Byron Carter's death some years ago. A few comments I could make. Reporting news incorrectly is nothing new. Even trade press of the day printed errors in the story of his death. The fact that historic reports fifty years later do not agree with each other should also come as no surprise. Stories get told, change a bit, exact years forgotten and stated incorrectly. Still not unexpected. Since both Kettering and Leland refer to the same source as the impetus for the development makes it likely that at least that much of the story is likely true. As for the cause of Byron Carter's death? Pneumonia was often the precise cause of death in many serious injuries back in the days before reliable antibiotics. Almost any injury can result in an infection. And almost any infection can spread to the lungs and result in pneumonia. Once pneumonia sets in, death quite often soon followed. As a personal side note, the best friend of one of my wife's cousins about twenty years ago suffered a minor leg wound while working at a lumber mill. Three days later he died, of the infection and developing pneumonia. And THAT wasn't over a hundred years ago! As for the timeline? Carter died in 1908, Cadillac had the combined starter/generator and lighting system ready and in production for the 1912 model year. Three years between the two is not an unreasonable time to conduct experiments and work out the details, plus get it into production. History always needs to be considered in the context of its time.

John348, I am a very pre-1930 hobbyist, have been for more than fifty years. But that doesn't mean I don't appreciate nicely restored '50s and even '60s cars. There are even a few that I wouldn't mind owning if I could afford them. And, if someone will go to the trouble to post good pictures of cars at shows I can't get to? I won't complain even if a fair number of '70s or (shudder) even '80s cars pictures are posted.These days, family issues have me pretty well tied down and I rarely get out to see any shows. So any good concours or tour photos are usually enjoyed. KEEP POSTING! It IS appreciated. The one thing I would ask, is show us some of the early cars as well as the later stuff. I say that, and note that you did so, and THAT is very much appreciated also! Than you.

One should no more have seat belts in an earlier open antique (even a touring car for crying out loud!!) than one should have seat belts on a motorcycle!!!! Only an idiot would put seat belts on a motorcycle. It should be mentioned that crash testing in the mid '60s found that many of the seat belts installed in new cars in the late '50s and early '60s often did more harm than good. Even in enclosed body cars, not just '20s, but '30s, '40s, and even most '50s cars, without full crash engineering adding belts, even with shoulder straps, is as likely to make them more dangerous as it is to provide any reasonable protection in a crash. Full crash testing and engineering would HAVE to be done for virtually every year make and model and body style individually! That would be many tens of thousands of cars to spend many thousands of dollars EACH just for a computer level engineering! Actual crash testing? Many times more expensive yet, likely many tens of thousands of dollars PER CAR! Who in the world could actually afford to pay for that? Not that 99 percent of politicians care at all, YOU will have to pay for it. The result would be the end of the collector car hobby anywhere such laws would be enacted and enforced. Only "politically connected " "chosen ones" would maybe be exempted. I'll shut up now before I wander further into the political afield.

VL, Your dad had a wonderful daughter! A beautiful tribute to him if ever I have seen one. I must have missed any posting that he had passed, however, it sounds as though he has. We all have known for some time now that his remaining time was short. His pain is over. I had a good relationship with both my parents, and my mother's parents as well. I can relate to all the good "shop" stories. The smells,. The tools. And the time spent in them doing what needed to be done. On the other hand, one thing my dad was not, was neat. He was the classical definition of a hoarder. Piles and piles of stuff that he could never find what he needed in. And he had other issues I had to learn early how to deal with. Some subjects you NEVER mention. Some things, no matter how much you KNOW he was wrong, you NEVER say so. In spite of all that. I worked in the family business for most of forty years. And we got along just fine. I have a lot of his tools, and use them often. I had to chuckle when Eric Hill mentioned his dad's 12 inch Crescent wrench. I have my dad's 12 inch Crescent wrench, and get a special feeling every time I use it. I have many of my dad's tools. I still use the oxy/acetylene torch he taught me how to weld with by the time I was twelve. I have the arc welder he bought and taught me how to use a couple years later. His bench grinder, I use almost every day it seems. His drill press, even about a hundred drill bits, I use with care. Only broken about a half dozen drill bits since he passed fifteen years ago. My dad also inspired me in antique automobiles. As far back as I can remember, he wanted to have one, and restore it perfectly! He never did restore an antique automobile, he was never good at following through with ideas or projects. But he did teach me how to "double clutch" in my '29 Reo I bought while I was still in high school. And, he rode in several of the about a dozen cars I have restored. He also helped the local clubs from time to time, including towing my car trailer as the trouble truck for large tours a few times. He was, all in all, a good man, and a good dad. I still miss him every day. Take your time, VL, feel your grief. And remember him fondly for always.

An "ex" is someone that used to be someone. A "spurt" is a small amount of water or other liquid, like a drop or "drip", under pressure. Therefore, an "expert" is a drip who used to be someone now under pressure. A couple details. 1909 into early 1911 model T fords had the brake handle and the hand crank brass plated. The first almost a thousand model Ts also had the reverse lever brass plated. These in addition to many bolts , brackets, and miscellaneous hardware. The early 1915 year model Ts had brass plated spark and throttle levers as well as the new design pressed steel quadrant were brass plated. Consider also. Somewhat before Ford's model T, there was another American automobile manufacturer that achieved status as the largest automobile manufacturer in the world. Before Ford's model T, another manufacturer began a form of assembly line production producing just a bit short of thirty thousand automobiles (if I recall the numbers correctly?) in approximately five years time! That manufacturer was Oldsmobile, with their Curved Dash and French Front models! And they used a considerable amount of nickel plating on most of those cars. I suspect that prior to about 1903, more cars had nickel plating than cars that did not. Stanley, Locomobile steam as well as numerous copycat cars that "infringed" or paid royalties to Locomobile, as well as quite a few electrics I know used nickel plating in the early years. I have over the years read of several early gasoline cars that offered nickel plating as an option, but I am not certain enough of the specifics to name any. I almost never watch any of the made-for-cable collector car tv shows. Bad enough they keep trying to cram muscle cars, hot rods, cruisers, and fantasy racing monsters down my throat. Fifteen minutes is about all I can stand to hear those guys talk in a month!

Saddened to hear you are not playing with the big stuff anymore. But I knew you were having issues. I remember some of those little ones from many years ago. You wouldn't want to hear the stories however.

I am glad nobody was seriously hurt. But, hey! Its a model T! I am sure the frame is bent. Left front fender may or may not be worth repairing. Rear end will need some work. Front axle and spring. Maybe re-wood one wheel. Maybe a new radiator, about $700. Four to five hundred dollars more should buy most of the T parts needed, about two months of spare time? And the T would be just as good as before. Maybe even better. I have known several "wrecked" model Ts being repaired. They are so easy to work on. Post brass parts are readily available, and not expensive. I have seen some really wasted wrecks made better than new by owners that didn't want the car destroyed on their watch. This one would be a piece of cake!

That article is nearly a year old. I wonder what has happened to the cars since then? Maybe I didn't read far enough and there was an update below the comments?

I can't be certain, because so many different cars used similar gasoline tanks back then. However, it looks very close to a '28 Chevrolet tank I had oh so many years ago. Same type and placement of the filler neck and gasoline gauge. Only exact measurements comparison could tell for sure. It may be able to fit in other years or makes of cars as well. The one I had was in terrible condition.But it donated pieces to two restorations.

I don't know how some people manage to do it. I do know that it has been done by a fair number of car people in Califunny. But I have been repeatedly told that "NO car can be titled. or licensed until it is a fully running and driveable vehicle!" DMV even showed me the code book once. I objected, said I didn't like the idea of spending that much time or money on a restoration without first having some sort of legal title in my hand. They did not care, told me "Tough *******", get another hobby, "we don't think you should be driving that old junk anyway!" All kinds of things. So, I do my work. Spend as little as I have to. And? So far, with more clerical errors than should be allowed, hassles aplenty, I have managed to get a title for every car, usually within a few months.

Car-Nicopia, Just a quick comment from me. Being a long-time early car hobbyist, leaning toward the brass era, but with interests well through the "nickel age" '20s, and some interest in newer collector cars, also passionate about history in general. I have had numerous model Ts, several speedsters (a whole world unto themselves!), a TT truck, a coupe, a center-door sedan, now restoring a '15 runabout. I study era photos in minute detail. Immerse myself in the minutia of the changes made by Ford, the why, the when. The model T Ford is the ultimate icon of mass production, fifteen million made all alike! No two exactly alike. Yeah, model T Fords are just about the most enjoyment one can get for their dollars. Eric's touring car is one of the finest quality restorations available on the market today. I have not seen it myself, but I know a few people that have.

Sometimes if is wonderful how things can fall into place!

Sometimes one wonders about the who what when and why of some errors. One of my favorite early talkies is "The Crowd Roars" 1932. James Cagney, Joan Blondell, and late '20s racing cars! What is not to love about it! Most versions of the movie available have some interesting errors. Like, how did late '30s racing cars and a mid '30s ambulance get into the picture? Well, IMDb has it in the trivia of the movie. The story was remade in 1939 as "Indianapolis Speedway". Apparently, in order to save money on the new film, they cut the original film (I would imagine the negatives?) and edited scenes from the 1932 movie into the new 1939 film. Then, when they put the original back together, they somehow mixed in a few newer pieces. Spoiler alert. One of my favorite parts of the 1932 movie is how the public's perception has changed. As the "washed up" racing driver James Cagney is saving the day by pushing the ambulance driver aside to get the friend to the hospital IN TIME! His actions indicate someone driving like was done by most people in the '20s. Slow and deliberate in manner. The mixed in '39 scenes show an ambulance screeching around corners in wild abandon! Seven years and the public's expectation of action had changed that much.

Howard, You have done a fine job with that Maxwell truck! It looks right. Kevin, Someone I know on another forum (model T club) was at that Gilmore show, and one of the photos posted I am sure was your car driving down the road! I saw it, and thought it was yours. Don't know if I can find it, but may have to look?

That is a neat looking tire pump and gauge! Something like that may have been available into the early '10s, but I doubt much later. Should be good for display with your brass cars. By the way, I saw a picture of that Mc Intyre at the OCF on another forum! Beautiful car!

NEVER TRUST MOBILE HOME AXLES, WHEELS, or TIRES!!!!!!! Thirty five years of my life was in systems contracting. Among the many more interesting places, mobile home parks have independently owned communications, electrical, and water systems. As such, we did a fair amount of working mobile home parks. Along with that, we got a good inside look at the mobile home industry. Mobile home axles, wheels, and tires, for many decades, were designed as a single use item. They had special exemptions from highways legislation over quality and safety. They were NOT made to last! Prior to about 1990, they were actually required by law in many states to be left under the mobile home. The tires are intended for a thousand miles, OR LESS! The bearings are not intended to last! In the 1990s, some of those laws changed. Used axles along with their wheels and tires were harvested to be reconditioned, and often reused, but still for only a single use short distance again.