13White
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Posts posted by 13White
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21 hours ago, Frank DuVal said:
And when a club fails from not enough members left to do the work, another show/tour/tech session is no longer around for you to participate in without helping to do the work.
I don't really care for the tone of your reply; you have no idea what I participate in, or what clubs I have belonged to and for how long. I have done plenty of the work. Have a nice day.
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I think I am probably as interested in old cars as I have ever been; but clubs just don't really appeal to me. Maybe others feel the same. I think I can participate and enjoy even though I don't have a matching jacket.
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On 4/4/2022 at 4:02 PM, PeteL said:
I have no personal knowledge of this car; however, my late Cousin was very close to my Dad when they were young, and Bert was delighted when he told me of riding in my dad's 1934 Ford coupe, and having a drag race with this car on Granville Street in Vancouver. Apparently the little Ford took him off the line, but once they got up to about 40 mph the Duesie was able to even up and then pull ahead. Not bad for a 21-stud flathead...
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That Mea magneto was used on White cars 30-40 hp. circa 1910-14. I have a couple of similar ones.
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5 hours ago, Dandy Dave said:
Not always. My Model 15 Truck does not have overdrive. According to my parts book this was an option. . 3rd is forward. Direct is back and it is marked that way on the floor board on my truck. Look at the photos from my parts book for the Model 15 transmission. Gears for upper and lower transmission shaft shown. Dandy Dave!
If I keep learning like this my head is going to explode! thanks again!!!
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1 hour ago, LI_BENTLEY said:
All Whites before the 16 valve 4 and most trucks after used the same 4 speed transmission the 30, 40, 45, and 60 hp cars and trucks. The difference was the cars utilize an aluminum case and the trucks had a cast iron case. Bout cars and trucks used the same clutch. This is why the cars are so good, hard to break them.
I agree completely with all of this, but I have to add that although the transmission cases are the same, aluminum and cast iron, the Model 15 3/4 ton trucks have 3rd gear direct, and 4th gear overdrive, the same as the cars. The 1 1/2 ton model 20 truck transmission looks the same but 4th gear is direct and no overdrive.
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9 minutes ago, George K said:
Just when you thought it was safe to go back in the water. This White shows up. She’s a beaut.
While this is an unbelievable town car, I would respectfully say it is not a White
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13 hours ago, edinmass said:
According to my friend, his 1911 40 hp car was left hand drive..........and he went on to explain the 40’s were LHD in 11, the six sixty were LHD in 12, and the 30 hp cars were LHD in 13..........he has owned gas, steam, and a bunch of White trucks and busses. I do not doubt his 1911 LHD..........I'd sure like to meet your friend!
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21 hours ago, 13White said:
Well, this photo certainly has me questioning what I know about 1913 White cars.
it is definitely left hand drive as the script on the radiator is not reversed. But the gas headlights and oil side lamps are earlier more like an 11-12. Also, the external door handle on the rear door is not found on a 1913. The top of the firewall and windshield look earlier like 1911 as well. The steering wheel has 4 spokes, where the earlier cars usually have 3 spokes. The large front hubs look like the larger 40hp car.
And it definitely appears to be an original image from the past so that eliminates an inaccurate restoration.
I just don’t know what to think.So.... Based on my continuing education, I would think the ebay photo is a 1911 White "forty" I sure would like to have it now!
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33 minutes ago, edinmass said:
According to my friend, his 1911 40 hp car was left hand drive..........and he went on to explain the 40’s were LHD in 11, the six sixty were LHD in 12, and the 30 hp cars were LHD in 13..........he has owned gas, steam, and a bunch of White trucks and busses. I do not doubt his 1911 LHD..........Thank you that makes a lot of sense. The mystery car in the eBay photo is a 40hp for sure due to the larger hubs and heavier axle. That would explain the early style lamps, firewall and door handles. Most of my research has been on the 30 hp cars and that information is really good to know. Thanks again!
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On 3/9/2022 at 11:19 PM, PFindlay said:
If you Google 1912 White it's not hard to find LHD cars that are identified as 1912 Whites. Are they all wrong, or did White offer both RHD and LHD in 1912?
I have also seen over the years White cars (and trucks) of the 1913-14 era mis-identified as 1910-12. It’s even worse with White trucks models 15 and 20, as they retained the gas lights and early style hood and fenders etc up into the 1920s. But after many years of research I still am certain that LH drive was introduced for the 1913 model year for the “Thirty” model 30hp cars. The cone vs disc clutch is not as easy to be sure, as with the 30hp GK series engine and oil clutch being used in trucks up to the mid 1920s, many early cars had the cone clutch upgraded to disc as it is a virtual bolt-in conversion. It’s very interesting to try and sort out.
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14 hours ago, Mark Wetherbee said:
A bit pricey for a small picture, but this one is on eBay and thought you might appreciate it…
Well, this photo certainly has me questioning what I know about 1913 White cars.
it is definitely left hand drive as the script on the radiator is not reversed. But the gas headlights and oil side lamps are earlier more like an 11-12. Also, the external door handle on the rear door is not found on a 1913. The top of the firewall and windshield look earlier like 1911 as well. The steering wheel has 4 spokes, where the earlier cars usually have 3 spokes. The large front hubs look like the larger 40hp car.
And it definitely appears to be an original image from the past so that eliminates an inaccurate restoration.
I just don’t know what to think.-
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Just now, 13White said:
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3 hours ago, 13White said:
Based on my research and literature I have collected over the years, I would offer the following;
1912- RH drive and cone clutch
1913- LH drive and cone clutch
1914- LH drive and disc clutch
I have seen photos over the years of cars identified as "1912 White" that I would believe are 1913.
I could be wrong, but I do have a fair bit of original information. I am fairly certain that 1913 is the first year of LH drive for the 30-40 HP cars.
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On 3/1/2022 at 3:11 PM, edinmass said:
I think the cone clutch and right hand drive went away at the same time.........
Based on my research and literature I have collected over the years, I would offer the following;
1912- RH drive and cone clutch
1913- LH drive and cone clutch
1914- LH drive and disc clutch
I have seen photos over the years of cars identified as "1912 White" that I would believe are 1913.
I could be wrong, but I do have a fair bit of original information. I am fairly certain that 1913 is the first year of LH drive for the 30-40 HP cars.
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On 10/19/2020 at 6:15 AM, PFindlay said:
Going back to the Silver Brothers' cars ... Here are two pictures that Peter Trant has contributed. They were taken by Ed Aveling and give a good idea of what the Pierce Arrow touring looked like when the cars were retrieved.
Are you able to identify the guys in these photos?
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10 hours ago, PFindlay said:
In what was undoubtedly referred to as "The race of the century" we see the Wellburn Holley, the Bell Olds, and the McGladrey Curved Dash Olds throwing caution to the wind. It was the 1971 VCCC May Tour in Nanaimo and the location was the Grandview Bowl.
The first picture below was a warmup run, and it appears that Fred Bell was having a little trouble with the Olds. (I guess he didn't quite make it around to the pits.) I'm told this was the very first time out for this car and he was still working the bugs out. The second picture shows the race underway and the third shows the outcome.
And in a subsequent event, we have the green Napier taking on the yellow Hupmobile. Anyone want to guess how that one went?
Further to the One cylinder race, there actually was a fourth entry. Mike Simmons was riding a vintage bicycle dubbed “ The Spirit of Alcohol”. He did hold the lead at one point, until the chain fell off and he was unable to continue.
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6 hours ago, PFindlay said:
This 1926 Cadillac coupe was sold new ($4900) in Santa Barbara, California. The purchaser was Mr. Jesse Podger. Podger lived in Toronto in 1904, and later Winnipeg, but moved to Santa Barbara with his wife in 1919. In 1928 the Podgers moved to Victoria and brought the Cadillac with them. It appears that he (or a subsequent owner) may have traded it in to "Motor House Victoria Ltd." by 1950. Records show that by 1954 it was owned by William Duncan and then sold to Eva Craycroft, both of Victoria.
In 1957 Newell Morrison acquired the car at his Victoria Chev-Olds dealership. He was told that the car had belonged to a doctor and was used mostly on Saltspring Island. He cleaned it up and got it running well and made plans to drive it on the 1958 Fernie to Victoria tour. Unfortunately, he was unable to attend so his friend Bud Bucan drove the car for him.
In 1960 the Cadillac was sold to Island Holdings Ltd, Ladysmith, and in 1969 it went to Fred Bell for a few months. Fred passed it on to Richard McGladrey and two years later it was traded in at C and R Motors in Nanaimo.
In 1971, the car came over to the mainland with stops at Dick Erwin Chevrolet (the "great, great guy") in North Vancouver and then Carter Pontiac Buick in Burnaby. In 1978 it was sold to a Prince George owner named Duncan and then in 1981 Mr. James Perry bought it. The current owners acquired it in 2005, after Perry died.
By 2008 the car was restored and in 2008 it was driven on its second Fernie to Victoria tour, looking and running great the whole way.
There is a good article on this car in the August/September 2008 issue of the VCCC magazine The Vintage Car.
Thanks for the interesting history of this car; as you mentioned,it was owned by my father at one time.
If I may, I can add a little from the time that Dad owned it.
In addition to old cars, Dad had a couple of things he was very passionate about; steam, Colt revolvers, and Winchester rifles. He had a big safe in the basement full of Colts, and a pegboard wall in the den with a complete collection of Winchesters, rifles and carbines, from the model 1866 Yellow Boy all the way to the Model 1895 Flatside. Including a Model 1886 in .50-110 express but that’s another story.
Anyway, If Dad decided that he wanted something, nothing was sacred, and all bets were off. I came home from school one day, and the pegboard wall was just empty hooks, and the safe was gone from the basement. But there was a 1926 Cadillac in the driveway.
It wasn’t too long before Ram McGladrey had the remains of a 1905 Oldsmobile Light Tonneau. It was very rough, basically the bare engine and rusty frame. But Dad had to have it, and soon the Caddy was gone and the remains of the Olds was in the garage. The Cadillac was traded for the Olds. Dad did restore the Olds; it was Canadian built and is now in the museum in its birthplace; St. Catharine’s Ontario.
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42 minutes ago, 8E45E said:
The 1971/2 Vauxhall Firenza had an even worse reputation. There was a Dissatisfied Firenza Onwers' lobby group that actually got GM to issue a $1000 credit to owners of these cars to trade them in. That more or less spelled the end of Vauxhall in Canada; not to mention, GM's first 'world car', the T-body Chevette started production in Brazil in 1974, and by 1976, was being produced in both North America and England.
Craig
This is interesting no doubt, but it is getting off the topic of Pre-war cars that have survived.
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57 minutes ago, KLF said:
Harry Parr lived in Cloverdale. I don't know where he found this L29 Cord that he restored. I do remember it was missing the rumble seat lid and he couldn't find one. Eventually he had to make it. I had a ride in that rumble seat when I was 13 or so. I remember being amazed at how quiet it was. No rear end noise! Don't know where the car is today. That's my Dad's 27 Auburn next to it.
Ken
I can’t believe it; I have a very early memory of riding in the rumble seat of that car myself! It was at a May tour at the Tally-Ho in Nanaimo in the 1960’s. It made an impression on me with how quiet it was as well. I have never seen that car since that ride.
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4 hours ago, keithb7 said:
Hi folks, a contact of mine saw this thread and asked for a little help posting here. His car has a significant history in British Columbia.
This Canadian built 1911 McLaughlin Model 33 Touring car was the first automobile in Ashcroft in 1911.
The original owner Issac (Ike) Leeman was Blacksmith and an undertaker in Ashcroft. At thatt time Ashcroft was a major hub in the interior of British Columbia.When Ike passed, the car was sold to the Burr family in the area. The car remained in the Lillooet and Hat Creek areas of BC forseveral years . In the early 1940's plans were slated to chop up the car to use its engine for a water pump. Charlie Bond from Clearwater BC learned about this. He traded a stationary engine for the McLaughlin and become the new owner . When Charlie passed in 1988 or 89, his family requested Ed Shaw from Kamloops BC to restore the car. Local Kamloops resident Gerry Wallin leaned of the 1911 McLaughlin that Ed was restoring. The car was registered to go to Barrett Jackson in Arizona USA. Soon to be auctioned. When Gerry learned about this, and the car's history, he wanted to keep the car in Canada. Especially in the BC interior area. Jerry was able to secure the car purchasing it from Ed Shaw in 1990.Today Gerry still owns maintains after the car. It's still drivable today.The car and Gerry currently reside in Kamloops. Locals here get to enjoy seeing the car when Gerry brings it out to events. I recall the first time I saw it at a local car show a couple of years ago. It's a wonderful living piece of BC history.
That’s a great story and an exceptionally beautiful car! And interestingly enough it originated in the same town as the White. It’s something to think that they shared the same roads way back when. Here’s a photo of the White taken around Ashcroft back then. One time an “expert” told me the bail handled lamps I have are not correct. I showed him the photo and he said they must have changed them back in 1920. Lol
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2 hours ago, G.Hoffman said:
Hi all.
I was at the old Pringle place several times in the 50s and 60s . Twice with Paul and others . Old man Pringle was a Hermit with hair and beard over the shoulders. He was friendly once you got to know him so my wife and I used to visit a couple times a year. He had a huge yard with a sawmill and acres of junk. There was about a half dozen old cars in this collection. I rescued the remains of a 1913 Overland. The rad and one headlight are on my basement wall today as spares for my 12. The rad is the same as my 1912 only nickle plated in 1913. Paul and Rick Percy rescued a 1909 Cadillac fairly complete which I have lost track of now.. There was a nearly complete 1915 Franklin which is still owned by Dave Proctor. Paul bought it and fixed it up as a runner before selling it to Dave.
The 1904 Fiat was a real basket case. It had been in Pringles yard for years and virtually fallen apart onto the ground. I don't recall it being burnt. When John finally talked the old man out of it the rad was missing. The old man had mounted it alongside a single cylinder hopper cooled irrigation pump in a creek away from his house. One day he found that the rad was gone and he was really pissed. Not long after this my wife and I arrived for a visit to be met with the old man toting a 12 gauge shotgun. At the time I confessed that I didn't have any idea who would steal it so the old man cooled down for a visit. Buck was well known for having sticky fingers so I phoned him when I got home and asked about the rad. His answer was typical of Buck saying "well he didn't need it anyway "When John got the Fiat to Seattle, Buck sold him the rad for I think $100. Buck never had any money so was always trying to generate cash.
The story I recall of the Fiat is the owner of the Westwold Hotel built in the 1880s was well off by the turn of the century. In 1904 he and his wife attended the Paris Auto show where he purchased the Fiat. It was then shipped around the Horn and up to Westwold . The hotel was still there but abandoned in the early seventies. It was a huge 3 story wood structure.
Here is a story that I got from one of the Pringle sons. John and his family traveled from Seattle and visited Weastwold for a holiday in the mid 70s. Val and John went over to the remains of the old hotel for a look around. One item that John was having a problem with during the restoration was the drive chains and sprockets were completely worn out. Chain drive cars had high wear rates in the mud and gravel of these early roads. In an old shed at the rear of the hotel was a pair of new chains still wrapped and hanging on the wall. These are oddball metric European chains. The sprockets were rebuilt and the new chains installed. You can see them in one of the above photos. I saw the Fiat several times after the restoration and it was a beautiful car. I believe it is still in the family.
Cheers George.
Please keep it coming; I could read stories like this all day long!!!
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On 9/21/2020 at 9:22 AM, PFindlay said:
Here is another car that Buck Rogers saved. Funny how they all have the same general look to them. It's the remains of a 1913 Cadillac which was photographed in his front yard on Smythe St. back in the sixties. The second photo shows that it's on its way to becoming a car once again.
Thank you once again for posting. One thing for me is it makes me feel good to see that the White really wasn’t any worse than most of the cars of that era. Those guys weren’t easily intimidated!!! I’m so grateful that they salvaged so many early cars when they did.
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I must say thank you to all those who have posted; I have certainly enjoyed this thread. Although I am from the island, I grew up around pretty much all of these characters and most of these cars. Some of these gentlemen I first met as a child and then went on to become friends as an adult. It was always interesting when Buck Rogers would pull into the driveway driving his " travelling swap meet" lol. Is Paul Bolam still alive? I have not seen him in many years.
A really interesting thing would be to compile a roster of all of the vehicles that were discovered by Buck Rogers and passed through his possession to other collectors. That would be fascinating but maybe impossible to complete.
Thanks again to everyone that has posted.
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What Did the Letters GMC Originally Stand For?
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Great Mechanical Catastrophe
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