llskis

Here is my two cents. I also hardly go with one of my cars to a local shows anymore. Main reason is that 90% of the ones that put the show on have no control or even try to have control of the show. Here are some examples: 1) Dogs running around and "dumping" 2) Kids(with bikes) and strollers going between cars. 3)Having to pay to enter with no benefits of going. 4)Modified cars insisting on parking in the original car spaces. 5)People telling you that your car is not what it should be. 6)On and on it goes. I would rather pay and spend my time at a AACA show because of the control/org. they have. Of course this is just my opinion; to each his own.--Larry

West: Thanks for the response. I saw that one in the AACA Mag. but I thought that was going through the Milwaukee Region since Oconomowoc is so close to Milwaukee. I was more thinking that the Blackhawk Region would be more in Northern IL or Deep Southern WI like Janesville/Beloit Area's. Maybe I should have rephrased my question to: Any plans for N. Illinois Area's? Thanks-Larry P.S. Has Blackhawk Region ever hosted a Grand National??

Enjoy very much going and participating at the AACA National Meets.Have gone to the Mississippi and Cedar Rapids Regional Events and liked them very much. They were organized well. I also went to a National Meet with the Blackhawk Division in 2006 held at the "Clock Tower Inn" in Rockford IL. Enjoyed this meet as well. I am not one to trailer a car for long distance (over 200 miles) so I know my participating in these events is limited. Has anybody heard any plans for the Blackhawk Region to host a National event in the future? I thought for sure they would have had one since 2006. Comments Please--Thanks-Larry

Steve: Thanks much for the response. Glad this service is avail. BTW: Checked my E-Mail "sent" and everything indicates it went through but like you said it might have went into your "Spam". Thanks Again; Larry

OK; final report--They will not answer my email so I assume they will not commit to giving out info to third parties even with owners request. (Maybe they think they would field too many calls) In any event still like this org. and their events. But buyer beware: If you ever want a third party (Auction House-Buyer of Car-Value of car input-and etc.) to gain proof of award validation you are out of luck since no Certificate of Authenticity(VIN) is issused.(Even with expense paid in full by member) Larry

TG: Thanks for the response; let's see if I can respond to you in a objective manner. I'm not asking for a certificate for every possible award. I would think the AACA could provide a Certificate with the car Vin with the date and for a "Senior" award for a National Meet and one for a G/N Meet. If the AACA can not provide verbal or written proof to a Auction House (Mecum and B/J and etc) or potential buyer (With owner's OK) then there is no way to prove that the car won those awards. As I see it nothing is available to these people with the VIN attached. All auction houses are getting to the point that the car can not display any awards w/o proof. In fact the NCRS sets up a table with their pesonnel to operate their computers to get to their award base programs to show that the car was awarded. Then and only then they can display the badge or certificate. I go to a lot a car shows and have seen a AACA Award Badge on the Vehicle and by looking at the Vehicle I know the car could not have been awarded that badge. I have asked the car owners at what meet they got that award and the subject matter quickly changes. I have also seen AACA trophys for sale at swap meets. All I would like to see is to have someway to prove to a independant party that the car is what it is claimed to be. Of course all comments are welcomed--Larry P.S. I would be willing to pay for all cost of a certificate and I'm sure other members would also. Make it an option if need be.

Update to the above: Have emailed Lynn at the AACA office for answer per MCHinson. (At the start of week) No response yet. Wonder what the hold up is? Larry

Steve: Thanks much for nice response. Don't know what other members think but to me a "Bonified AACA Certificate" with the cars VIN on it and award given would mean much more to me than any trophy. FYI: NCRS has far more meets and cars to be judged at their Chapter/Regional/National meets than the AACA. At all of their meets Certificate of Awards are given. With todays computers "creating" a Certificate would be only a little more work.IMHO Thanks Again; Larry P.S. Would like to hear from other members on this subject.

Tried to get an answer in the "Judging" section but with no avail. Simple question: Will AACA give out the awards earned for a certain car to Non-Members. (With permission from the car owner) Since there is no award certificate(With VIN on the Certificate) sent to the car owners it is difficult to prove to a person that wants to buy a certain car or to an auction house like Barret-Jackson that wants to varify the awards. We all know that the AACA badge on the car tells us little since there is no reference to the VIN. Yes AACA publishes the awards on the internet but again no reference to VIN. Many potential car buyers want to varify the awards themselves independent from the owners. This can be done with NCRS and Bloomington Gold. BTW: My cars are not for sale; but who knows what the future will bring. Maybe MCHinson can make a comment on this subject. Thanks--Larry

I brought that up at the G/N Judging school in Moline and got nowhere with that idea. It is true the AACA has the VIN in their records with its awards but would they give that info to Non-Members if that person wants documentation on a certain car he wants to purchase?? Like to know. Thanks; Larry P.S.--FWIW; every major judging org. gives a certificate with the car achievments to the onwer. (NCRS-B/G-ACA-Mopars Assoc. & etc)

Here is a picture of my friends old Ford. He does not know what kind of Hubcaps on it and neither do I. Can anybody help?? Larry P.S. BTW; not too many people can say they have 4 vent windows on their car!!

While we are on the "paint" subject I also noticed that most of the "over restored" cars (like class 36B) at the G/N all had new BC/CC paint jobs. Not too many had the original type paint of Acrylic Laquer like they suppose to be. I guess the judges leave this slide also. Larry

Bhigdog: Thanks for you nice input. I guess it how everybody interpets what is original. All my other clubs like Bloomington Gold and NCRS wants the cars to look like they came from the factory even with their imperfections. Also the judges do the best they can; they are no experts on every type of car. Not sure how the problem can be solved.(Perhaps some point deduction for the obvious over restorations) Giving the main judge some preemptive info might help. This could not be done at Moline due to the weather when time becomes scarce. Thanks-Larry

Restorer32: Thanks for your comments. I guess it is just how everybody interpets original. BTW 99% of my type of car came with the overspray; it's the way Norwood (GM Plant) painted the car. There was no exceptions. I should know; I bought one brand new. Larry

Bob: You are correct on your explaination on how the your score comes about--but that's only how it supposed to be done in theory. If you "dangle" 5 over restored cars in a class and the 6th car is the way it came from the factory-it will get deductions for sure. The judges are only human and will start comparing cars not your car against an original factory car. This is just my opinion. Let me give you an example what happened to me: They deducted points for "paint in the trunk". There was "overspray" on the catch part of the trunk. Guess what--It is supposed to be that way according to all the experts of my particular vehical- we painted it that way purposely. You will not find that on a over restored car. There where more examples of this. Not complaining at all; had a good time; but lets call a spade a spade. Larry

Totally agree as the "over restored" cars where alive and present at the G/N in Moline IL. I don't mind if they over restore their cars but when it effects the judging is when it crosses the line. I know this since I got my judging sheets back. I like Bloomington Gold standards and judging as they will "deduct" points for over restorations. They are interested in original cars not sure where AACA is heading.-Larry

I agee with the above. If you got a wife/girlfriend that is interested in Cars/Mechanics you are very lucky. If you try to talk to them (lets pick a subject) like NASCAR 90% of them will give you a "blank stare". Larry

MCHinson: Again thanks; but you are missing my point completely. I not saying they give the overrestored cars any more points; what I am saying is that after seeing all these overrestored cars when they see a completely original looking car(not overrestored) that car will get deductions for sure. In their mind they are comparing cars; it only human to do so. I have attended several judinging schools.FYI Larry

novaman: You make excellant points that I like very much. But I believe you will see in the future that class 36b will be changed. Simple logic dictates that. AFA over restoration; here is my take. Judges are only human and can not be blamed. When you "dangle" 9 carriots in front of them and the 10th car is a potatoe. (But car is truely an original in every respect) that car will get the deductions for sure. My car was restored to that matter. Couple of examples are: GM always left there rear axles (lightly painted black) out in the yard in the rain/snow. They where put on the car "as is" with surface rust on them. I have a Camaro bought new with 175 miles on it; yes it has rust underneath just the way it came. Exhaust manifolds always came with surface rust on them. I do not believe our judges know enough how cars came from the factory but they do the best they can. They are simply "shocked and awed" when they see these overrestorations. And when a class like 36b has the above it is more pronouced and exacerbated. Again; just my opinion. Larry

Tommy: Always like your comments. In this case will just have to agree to "disagree". Yes there will always be a 398/400 Pt. car especially in 36b. I can't say that about all the other classes especially with one entry. I would not want the club members to start selecting classes vs. selecting cars. I looked at a lot of different classes say from class 27 on up and did not see anything in comparison to class 36b. In fact I thought that the majority of class 36b cars where way "overrestored". Showing my age now but I bought brand new Camaro's in the age bracket and none of them came close from the factory in comparison what a saw that day. This is just my opinion and I respect all other opinions. Still had a great time. Larry

novaman: Thanks for your input. But I'll still stand with my original statement. Just go back and look at the last several Grand Nationals regardless where they where held. You will find that class 36B is "above and beyond" in number then any other class. It's my opinion that it will even grow larger in the future. If AACA does not what to increase the number of classes surely they can start combining (condensing) other classes that have become less popular. I'm a member of NCRS and Bloomington Gold and one of their bylaws is to try to make all classes as fair as possible in relationship to other classes. Why should some classes have "one" entry(at almost every meet) and "skate in" to their objective and other classes have to fight for every point. Fair is Fair. Just my opinion--Larry

Susan: Many members I have talked to "wish you would"! Larry

Matthew: Thanks very much for the "procedure" for input. I will in time take this up with Hulon; will let him for now try to catch up on all the request and emails.--Thanks-Larry

Susan: Thanks for your input. I'm not sure what the proper procedure would be for the Judging Divison to look/revise the Judging Guidline Book. I'm sure Hulon would agee logically with my concerns and "see" my point. What I don't understand is it solely up to him to revise the guidelines or is there sometype of "committee" that does this. Do they even want input from the members?? Thanks-Larry

Does anybody know if the VP of Class Judging(Hulon McCraw.) reads this forum?