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llskis

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Posts posted by llskis

  1. This is just my opinion but: One can enjoy the car/truck very much without driving it. I switch off my

    cars in my "Man Cave" and enjoy looking/tinkering with them. Lot of people do not realize that there is

    a lot of time/effort/money that goes into restoring a old vehicle. It only takes one mistake or event and all that

    effort is gone. I restored my vehicles to suit me not others. Larry

  2. I am trying not to debate this any more than necessary because it is pointless to argue about the judging rules on the forum.

    As I see it, an owner has three options:

    1. Understand what the rule are and compete;

    2. Contact the VP of Class Judging and lobby to have the rules changed; or

    3. Choose not to compete.

    This is a hobby. Have fun!

    MC: Thanks for your response and your 3 points are well taken. Don't agree with your top statement though. We are not arguing; we are just voicing

    are opinions. It too bad the judging committee doesn't "tune in" to the forum for some input. AFA your three points the first two are not an option for

    me with the vehicle I brought to the G/N as the rules are written now. I will choose option #3. I do have other vehicles that I will compete in with other

    classes that do not have so many "overrestored cars". So I will be "class jumping" to particpate. Yes this is a hobby but one wants to be in a fair plane

    to begain with and with the 5 pt. rule at the G/N the fun is taken out of it. IMHO Larry

    P.S. I have nothing against "overrestored" cars but when they are not properly judged is my concern. (As examples given with my previous threads)

  3. Larry, if you got the award that you came for, why do you care??

    Thanks for the response. No I did not get the award that I came for; missed it by 2-3 points due to the 5 point rule. (G/N)

    The point I am trying to make is: If judges don't deduct points off of a incorrect overrestored cars then the point spread becomes

    to much to overcome. I'm trying to make a point that a 400 point car should have been a 397 point car if judged properly.Larry

    On the car I brought up in above thread the owner could have easily "Gray Phosphated" the hinges instead of electing to paint

    them black.

  4. From ex98thdrill:

    I have been an AACA judge for 10 years and never at any time have I ever taken, nor have I seen anyone else deduct points from a car because of overrestoration. Usually the ones who yell the loudest about overrestoration are the ones who don't have a restored car.

    Are these cars overrestored?? Yes they are, but understand that a lot of the materials that are in use today are better than what the factory used back in the day.

    XXXX But one must remember that an overrestored car may be an incorrectly overrestored car. (See my pictures on the first page) That's where I would like

    to see some points taken off. An example of this would be like a overrestored car in my class at the G/N in Moline. The car was perfect but his hood hinges

    where painted black and not gray phosphate like they where supposed to be. I know the fellow and of course no points where take off. Larry

    P.S. It not that I worried about his score its the fact as long as we got the 5 or 10 point rule it effects the lower point car as the

    "spread" becomes unjustifiable bigger. Larry

  5. I have often thought that the 10 point rule should be abolished. I was not around when the system was designed but one idea that I have heard to explain the reason for the 10 point rule is as follows:

    If there were no 10 point rule and 375 points will always win you a Senior award, there is less incentive to try to maintain or restore a car as well as possible. "I only need 375 points, so I am not going to go to the trouble to fix (insert anything here)."

    MCHinson: I totally agree with your thinking to abolish the 10 pt. rule; just don't make sense. AFA the one who designed the system they did not take any input

    from ALL other organizations. I know of no org. that has that rule. There is no rational to the thinking of way it was done.IMHO Larry

  6. Larry, you really need to go through our judging school system to learn more about how we do things. We can explain it all day, but you'll never truly understand our system until you participate in it.

    Wayne

    Wayne; Thanks much for your comments; always like to see what you think. I'm too involved now with other organizations like I mentioned. I have been to your

    judging seminairs at the meets and understand your system. Your judging system is very unique and doesn't follow any of the others mentioned. My philosophy

    just does not co-in-side with AACA. My philosophy is factory original cars;you guys seem to be getting away from that. No dealer add on's period w/o points deducted. When they started that and changed the rule

    book; that turned me off. Thanks again; Larry

  7. ex98thdrill: Thanks much for such a wonderfull reply. I think we are on the same page. OK now my reply to you:

    Where do I draw the line? I think that the AACA Judging system could be vastly improved will just a little tweeking. As long as there will be

    overrestored cars and original cars in the same class let's drop the rule where cars have to be within so many points on the top car. No body

    else does this AFAIK. Let's judge the car against your own car when it came out of the factory. Bloomington/NCRS/Camaro Asoc/Mopar/ all

    do this. As long as the car meets the minimum points for the certain award. eg. 370 to 380 Third Place--381 to 390 Second Place and 391 to

    400 First Place. My points are just example and could be redone however they want. But don't forget an overrestored car should have points

    deducted if the restoration is incorrect. As it stands now the correct original car gets hit in the points two ways. It gets deducted points for

    when judges compare the overrestored cars to original type cars and by not deducting points off the overrestored incorrect cars the "spread" points

    are increased. When dealing for example with 5 points at a G/N it don't take much to be out of the picture. I don't expect the judges to be

    experts on every model but at least ask the owner for some input if anything is in question rather than just taking off points. Of all the meets

    I have attended it is rare that a judge even ask me for anything. Another point that I don't understand is why the judges can not give you a

    quick 60 seconds on the rundown of points that where taken off. A lot of things could be corrected right there and then. This is done with all

    the other org. as everthing is fresh in the mind of everbody concerned. Thanks and comments are welcomed. Larry

  8. AACA doesn't deduct for overrestoration, but they also don't judge one vehicle against the other. I understand your point, but bear in mind that no judge will know about all of the details about every car in every class.

    ex98thdrill: Just a couple of quick comments on your comments; BTW: Thanks for your response.

    1)"AACA doesn't deduct for overrestoration" IMHO: They should for incorrect overrestoration.

    2)"they also don't judge one vehicle against the other" This has been discussed before. Here is my view. You line up 5 overrestored cars

    in a row and then one that is based on originality as delivered that car will certainly take a hit in points. Judges are only human and this

    will happen.

    3)"nor do they deduct for too much overspray, not enough overspray" Mine did as shown on my scoring review sheet sent to me. I'm sure the

    judge just thought it was a sloppy restoration paint job after seeing all the "letter perfect" latches of the overrestored cars.

    Anyway that just another point of view. Just will have to adjust in the fact that AACA judging is a lot different that other organizations. Thanks Again;Larry

  9. Looks like some trunk paint chips around the trunk rubber seal in the first picture????

    Yes it does but this is a untouched original. Picture shows how an original Camaro trunk looks as far as overspray; that being

    said it still has wear and tear on it after over 40 years of being made. Larry

  10. I also have an issue with the AACA judging system. I attended the G/N at Moline this year and got a "second" place award missing the first place award

    by a very few points. (Got to be 5 points from the top car) I went up against a bunch of "overrestored cars" in class 36B. My car was restored to be original=

    nothing more nothing less. I got docked points because my car was a little different from the overrestored ones. My car BTW is a Jerry MacNeish certified

    69 Camaro. IMHO the overrestored cars should have been docked not mine. It is my opinion that the judges did not know what a 69 Camaro should look

    like. Will show example: Below is three pictures. #1 is a picture of a stone stock 69 Camaro from the file of CRG (Camaro Research Group). #2 is mine as

    both mine and the 1st picture show a factory overspray found in all Camaro latchespost-94010-143142252276_thumb.jpg. (Some vary the amount but all have them) #3 is picture of an overrestored

    Camoro. Just like the ones at Moline; of course they sailed right through judging. OK; made my statement--Larry

    post-94010-143142252266_thumb.jpg

    post-94010-143142252274_thumb.jpg

  11. I wish this was my garage. It is 6 cars. The owner will be using the one side to put her car in and out during the winter. I found a place that I can rent for 40/month. My garage has a dirt floor, broken windows and a leaky roof. Would gasoline stabilizer work for the gas for the winter?

    Can you purchase those "Car bags" at an automotive store like autozone?

    Any good stabilizer should work for just over the Winter. AFAIK--Car Jackets can only be purchased direct. There are many sizes

    available so comunication is a must. Larry

  12. FWIW: I have used "Car Jackets" for years with great results. http://www.carbag.com/ I buy the ones

    with the zippers. Just roll the prepared (Battery Out and widows rolled up) car in and and add some

    moisture remover like the white pellets they use in motor homes and zip it up for the winter. They come

    out just like you put them in. (No surface rust anywhere) BTW; my garage is just like yours (not heated

    and concrete floor) Go to their website to read up about them. I used these bags for over 20 years. Being

    carefull the bags can be used over and over again. They are expensive though--Larry

    P.S I use Av Gas and "Stay Fresh" (Blue in color) and have never had any problem with old gas.

  13. Our first antique vehicle was a 1958 Chevy Biscayne, two door hardtop. We added lap belts before we started driving it (except Bill bringing it home the day we bought it) to it so that we at least had those. His son lived with us and was twelve at the time. He of course wanted to ride in the Chevy on the ride home, but we wouldn't let him until the belts had been installed. This hits home since we had a very similar vehicle and Bill is also sixty-nine.

    (Off Topic)Don't like correcting Susan; but 1958 Chevy Biscaynes did not come as hardtops; only 2 doors where sedans.(With Post)--

    (On Topic)Truely tragic story on that fellow out in Oregon. --Larry

  14. ANOTHER SCAM ATTEMPT,

    Attention, if not already aware there is a scammer called tonyroberts who is sending private messages re 5 million dollar beneficiaries.

    Why is it the AACA forums are under siege from scammers, through AACA I have been contacted on four separate occasions by different scammers. AACA needs to address this problem.

    Richard

    Australia

    Don't think the AACA is the only one having problems. The NCRS Discussion Board also has been shut down now and then also for similar reasons.FYI Larry

  15. FWIW: JMHO: If this would pass AACA judging then I agree with Bob Hill that the value of the AACA Awards are starting down

    a path I do not like. They are getting more and more devalued. Ever since they "reworded" the judging book to include every "dealer

    installed" item to be Ok is what started it. AACA is slowly getting away from "factory originals". Too Bad. Larry

  16. I been looking at the current NADA values of 1968 thru 1972 3/4 ton 4x4 Fleetside trucks with factory air and the high retail prices start from 26K up to 38K. Is this the "norm" for a fully restored truck of this vintage ? I been looking at some beautiful trucks out there, but I just did not realized the high cost of them. I'm into the vintage cars of the late sixty's, but are these trucks from '68 thru '72 becoming more popular to warrant these type of prices ?

    Thanks!

    steveimpala: Yes they are getting up there. In fact from 1973 up to 1980 you will find that Chevrolets restored P/U are actually worth more in some cases

    then the Chevrolet Corvette(of the same year). Of course the Corvettes in those years where way underpowered and a far cry from the earlier Vettes. But one must remember

    that the high price restored P/U have the most popular models (shortbeds) and the most popular engines. Small Blocks and even more the Big Blocks. Don't

    look for 6 Cyl. to be in that range. Larry P.S. And of course the GMC pickups are no where in the range of Chevrolets just like Cougars are not in the range of

    Mustangs. I also agree that the NADA prices are somewhat overstated but it is good when comparing different Models and Manufactures.Of course this is JMHO

  17. The hard part is that I worked really hard to not over restore it allowing some really awful craftsmanship to remain. Thanks for all of your inputs. I still think I should call and give a heads up to the judge. After it's junior judging where I never met the team captain, wasn't asked a single question and never utilized the documentation I brought, I'm afraid with the 35B position that I will either get judges prepping for their class 36 sixties production car fiesta or tired guys who just finished vettes and t birds( like last time). I may also be completely irrational and Hershey region already has a team of highly experienced judges who are looking forward to judging such a rare thing as a restored prototype. Thanks again for any suggestions you have.

    sambarn: I restored my car with the same criteria as yours. I wanted the car to look original(nothing more; nothing less) even with the known flaws. It did

    not work out for me as there where just too many over restored cars in my class which where all flawless. I wish you luck and let us know what happens. Larry

  18. This was the biggest flaw in GM throughout its history. Way too many Divisions and Duplications. Is it any wonder that they

    had to file bankruptcy? Even today they have too many Divisions: Why have two truck Divisions? Time for GMC to hit the

    Automotive graveyard as they are nothing more than a "Copycat" of Chevrolet. Larry

  19. So I'm hoping y'all can offer some advice. I'm showing the 1948 Keller in class 35B at Hershey. The car is a very authentic restoration, leaving every possible piece original and a great deal of effort went into allowing the true prototype nature if this car to show through. Bad metal work, chintzy hand cut rubber floors, poor wood on the original cieling frame work, body panels that don't line up, parts from at least a dozen other cars in it ( from the factory) and horrid scratches in the glass panels from sanders at the factory( the same bad glass is on all three remaining cars, matching sander marks and all).

    Im afraid that the judging team is not going to be aware that, sitting with deloreans and kaiser- darrins and Nash-Healeys is a true factory prototype or engineering mule. It's build quality is fairly awful but is dead on correct. I have notebooks if photos from the factory and most of the body alignment issues can be seen but will every judge believe that the voltage rectifuer IS and was from a 1940 ford or that the air cleaner is from a 36 Chevy truck or that the gauges and dash inset panels are from a 37 Pontiac. Will they even ask or take for granted I've used other car parts to complete the car.

    We are hoping to get our senior and small details matter. My question is this. Would it be a good idea to call the chief judge and try to help prep them. Would this seem to leading or needy? I'll have the car there all week and can give a ten to two hundred minute CJE style class on how the cars were built. What do y'all think??

    sambarn: FWIW; here is my opinion. In some respect this is what happened to me at the AACA Grand National this year. Don't know too much about class 35B

    but if some entries show up in that class with recent over-restored restoration I believe you will take a hit in the points. Talking to the chief judge may or may not

    help depending if time permits. At the G/N it was raining on/off all day and there was no time for nothing. Even if documention is shown the judges are only human and will still compare car vs. car. Larry P.S.Your car reminds of the 1968 Corvette; full of flaws at introduction.

  20. ^^^^Edsels are very collectable and their value is well within what other cars of that era are selling for.

    Well within?? Base 1959 Impala Hardtop ($46000) vs. 1959 Top of line Edsel Hardtop ($19000); figures from N.A.D.A. Typical

    example of production figures: compare any year Cougar vs Mustang. Same Car practicaly; made on the same production line; Cougar

    way more rare than a Mustang--Final Outcome--No comparison to value and demand of the two cars. Mustang wins all the time. Again-JMHO-Larry

    P.S. It's something hard to explain but it just how the cars are preceived from the General Public.

  21. Thanks, you nailed it. While I was looking up the production numbers, you were posting them. As you say, Corvette production was very small '55-57. Any demand at all would push up the price.

    JMO: Don't believe production numbers have anything to do for the demand or car values for a car. So many examples come to mind. The Edsel had

    very low production numbers compared to other sedans at the time and we know what happened to the Edsel. Like I said. JMO-Larry

  22. Does anyone use either a car storage bag or inflatable bubble for car storage?

    Here are the links to both systems I'm referring to:

    CCCC - Anti-Rust Car Storage Bag

    CarCapsule CarCapsule Indoor Storage Capsule - JCWhitney

    I'm looking for pros and cons of either system.

    Thanks,

    impala

    i

    I been using "Car Jackets" (carbag.com) for over 20 yrs now and there the best thing I ever come across. I use the zipper

    bags and put the white pellets in (from camping world) to draw the moisture out. My building is non heated and the cars look

    just the same as when you put them in. No surface rust at all. Only drawback is bags are not cheap. ($280) but can be used

    over and over again if you are carful but must have flat cement floor. IMHO--Larry

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