Franklin-Madman

It was two four-cylinder 1905 Model C Engines coupled together. The Standard Model C engine is described in Scientific American as "The motor is a 5" x 5" flanged cylinder engine, with both exhaust and inlet valves in the heads of the cylinders, and with an auxiliary exhaust port at their base, so that when the piston uncovers this port, a great part of the exhaust blows out through a check valve before the piston exhausts the remainder on the upward stroke" On at least one other special, the check valve was left off and the auxiliary exhaust was open. It also was the first year that Franklin used mechanical inlets. There was a standing joke in the club that they could have done the same sort of thing in 1910 with Two Model H six-cylinder engines coupled together with a thirteenth one in the transition piece and called the H2O. Alas, it was a figment of someone's over active imagination.

Driving is always better than sitting.

go to Amazon and look up ISBN 9781530145515. It give a picture of the cover, details, and pricing options.

The H.H. Franklin Club Library has just published a reprint of the manual for Series 135 and 137 and it is available on Amazon Look up ISBN 9781530145515. We went out of our way to make sure that it is the most faithful reprint possible with modern POD technology. Royalties go the The H.H. Franklin Club. The club library call number is M-29-03 [Description] Reproduction of the Original Franklin Instruction Book for Series 135 and 137 of 1929. Reprinted by The H. H. Franklin Club Library. "THIS BOOK IS DIVIDED INTO TWO SECTIONS" "The first section is primarily for car owners. It contains the complete specifications, lubricating instructions and general information for both Series One-Thirty-Five and Series One-Thirty-Seven Cars. "The second section is primarily for the mechanic. It describes in detail the various parts of the car and instructs in the best method of making repairs and adjustments. A general index is at the back of the book." From a January 1, 1929 Edition, 90 pages 7" x 9.5" . [End Description]

The normal enthusiastic messages in anticipation of the Annual TREK have not shown up on this forum yet and it is only Ten Days away. Are we shy? I for one am madly trying to get my car put back together to get ready for this high point of the year and am looking forward to the TREK even if I have to leave the car at home...... .I FOOLISHLY (dumb, Dumb, DUMB!) took it apart last week after a nice drive were it performed flawlessly. Actually, some of the best times at the TREK have been in other persons' cars but I still like having mine there.

While helping a friend research a particular old engine, I came across this note in an OX5 Handbook from 1925. It reminded me of something discussed in the Franklin community and indeed it is in concordance with advice given on The H.H. Franklin Club's website concerning the main bearing nuts and rod nuts on Franklins. I transcribe the OX5 wording here in full as a refresher and to spread the word. (The OX5 was a popular Curtiss V-8 Aeroengine of about 90 HP.)

From the Franklin Instruction Book One-Thirty Under "License and Insurance Information" Sedan, Suffix 11, Seating Capacity 5, Weight 3700 "The weight tabulated above includes spare tire, lubricants, equipment, but not gasoline"

I continually flush my cooling system with a non-proprietary mixture that contains 20% elemental oxygen. It works great and no corrosion or freezing problems. Could not resist.... the devil made me do it.

Hello Again, Found a picture of a 1905 Franklin F with a top that is folded down. Digitally scaling the picture show that the top extends a full 20 inches to the rear so the car would be c. 138 inches. Hope that this helps. I Do not think that Franklin was making their own tops until around 1907 and in any event, there were differing suppliers of tops even then, so the Dimensions may vary accordingly. But I suspect that they were all --about-- the same. I would like to proven wrong (or right) by actual measurements...... anyone?

Hello Jay, Since no one who actually can measure such a car in person has responded yet: From Scaling the side view in the catalog with the specifications, the overall length (without top) is c. 118". The width is "Standard" If you send me your e-mail info in a PM, I can send you the extracts from the catalog that pertain to the Type F as an e-mail attachment. Also, you are encouraged to join The H.H. Franklin club at franklincar.org (join under the "Contact" tab). They have reproductions of the manuals for your car (under the "For-Sale" tab then "Merchandise" then "club literature"). And an OBTW: I suspect that you meant "four-passenger" rather than "four door". Unless it has been re-bodied, there are no doors as such. The front passenger seat swings up and out to allow a passage to the rear seats. (the rear can accommodate three in a squeeze so some call it a five-passenger car)

This CAN BE DONE directly from the factory drawings but takes a LOT in digging. For Example: Your Vic Brougham starts with drawing 43397 which is included on drawing 43399. The Battery cable "A" (Pos Ground) is listed on 43399 under 43397 as 4X820 4X820 is on Drawing "4 X 8-B" (spaces are important in the Drawing Name) as consisting of Terminals 30X21 on one end and 27529 (or 40315) on the other and assembled as as shown with wire number 4X1815 Wire 4X1815 is shown on Drawing "4 X 18-A" as being 20" overall length of No 0 Stranded Copper wire with specifics as to stranding pattern, insulation, over-braid and how far to strip the ends. 27529 and 40315 show the style of Positive battery terminals as supplied by various manufacturers I have not been able to find Drawing 30X21 but we should always be thankful for the drawings we have and not lament the ones that were lost with the demise of the company. It is an interesting story in itself how The Club got the drawings and digitized them so that everyone can use them. We should also be sure to thank The Club members who preserved the drawings over the years and undertook the tasks needed to get them on the web. For some of the harnessed wires, you have to dig through intermediate drawings but eventually things can be found. The Parts book specifies the size of SOME of the wires that are expected to be made in the field but many are pre-made and supplied according to part number.

There is a lively thread on Fixed Timing in the Hubmobile forum. The Hup 20 used the same ignitions system as the Franklin Model G of the period so the discussion is germane to Franklins as well. http://forums.aaca.org/f208/great-fixed-spark-debate-368267.html Prompted by http://forums.aaca.org/f208/timing-1910-hupmobile-335099.html

I would like to move this over to the Franklin Forum with your permission since it has gone beyond Hubmobile Related Topics 1912Minerva still has not had a response to how to set the VALVE Timing of a Hub 20. Anyone? Max: the car pictured with the Advance Mechanism is by strange co-incidence a 1912 D, 38 HP, but not the one you refer to. There are only three such cars in the Franklin Registry and they are a close knit grouping so I am sure someone knows about the car if it is "in the open". Going PM....

Conceptually, it is Simplicity itself. They used a Fixed Spark Bosch Magneto essentially the same as the DU4 Fixed Spark found on a Hup 20. The centrifugal advance is a spinning mechanism used as the coupling between the engine and the magneto. As the speed went up, flyweights working against springs changed the angle between the Input and Output Shafts of the Centrifugal unit. The Centrifugal advance mechanism is a cylinder about 100 mm in diameter and the whole thing spins at engine speed (or 1.5 engine speed for the sixes). It is quite something to see since you are sure it will catch on a wire or something and throw parts around. Click to expand The Magneto in the picture is a Fixed timing Bosch DR6 Dual. The big can on the drive end with screws and "x"s on it is the Franklin centrifugal advance mechanism which spins at 1.5 engine speed (six-cylinder car) For those who do not know about a MEA Mag. This is a Fixed-Breaker Magneto with the whole Magneto mounted in trunnions so that you could rotate the entire magneto to get advance and retard. I think that Eisemann used the same concept on a few mags. The MEA had the magnets arranged along the shuttle axis which gives it a very distinct appearance. The Dixie mag used completely different system from the MEA to achieve full spark over a wide range of advance.

(Read to end before getting upset) Not sure what prompted this but it strikes close to home since Franklin was very up-front about why they used a fixed spark on their small cars from 1909 to 1913 inclusive. Short answer: They did not trust the driver to set the spark properly. The Franklin of that time was outrageously expensive compared to other small, four-cylinder cars. It cost $1850 without top or windscreen (or radiator) F.O.B. Syracuse. Colors Extra..... This was very high for an 18 HP, 3.375 x 4 car of the time. The larger Franklins had a centrifugal automatic spark advance working on the input shaft on the Magneto so that the points opening-to-flux relation was always at its best to give the hottest spark. All this was before the Bosch DU4/6 Mod 5 was produced which is the first model to have the special-pole pieces give a hot spark over a wide breaker setting. The Reason for not having a spark control on ANY of their cars was quite simple: Drivers Often ran with the spark set WRONGLY. The error was usually that it was too far retarded so performance suffered and the engines ran hot. The solution to operator error is to remove the operator. They found that a small engine could be spun over the top with verve on starting so no retard was needed whereas the larger engines needed to be retarded for starting since they were a bit of a struggle to spin. Best of all: the fixed spark on a Franklin works splendidly with no-worries. It may make the car a bit peaky but when you hit the groove (above c.18 mph in top gear), it is just a matter of: If you want to go faster, open the throttle, to go slower close down on the throttle. Nothing to it and almost modern in all respects. I will admit economy played a part since the automatic spark advance on Franklins is quite complicated and it is also quite large and would not fit on their small car without serious re-arranging. The Mag to Carb distance is frightfully small. In the Franklin case, it was not Fixed vs Control-lever, it was Fixed vs Automatic All this does not prevent many people from installing an advance lever since the common notion (as expressed in this thread) is that it is better to have the driver control the spark. But if fixed spark worked well in 1910 and works well now, why change it? What else should we change to make the car run better? Maybe a Vega engine......[i make the joke that the only performance enhancement on my car is: that I generally (but not exclusively) run it on paved roads.] The Fixed spark on a Franklin G (3.375" X 4") is: 23 degrees. The Full Advance Automatic Spark on their bigger cars (4.25" x 4") is 33 degrees. The OHV hemi-head of the Franklin makes these numbers non-comparable to L-head or T-head engines. In fact, it might be the combustion chamber shape that allows good performance with a fixed spark. If So: Never mind.

There was a batch of early Series 11 Bodies that are all steel made by Raulang, a successor of Rauch & Lang of electric car fame. The cars are a bit more sedate than a normal, aluminum bodied S-11.

It is much easier to answer questions that start with What? or When? than WHY? and ANY answer to a Why? questions is speculation at best. My Speculation: Franklin came out with a Six for the 1906 model year. With individually cast cylinders, an in-line six with seven mains is the logical progression from the four with five mains. Little extra engineering is required. Also: until two-plane V-8 crankshafts came out in the twenties, V-8s suffered from the same second order vibration problem as a four whereas the in-line six is a much better balanced system than fours and V-8s with flat crankshaft. Franklin was very much concerned with making the smoothest automobile possible. The Best answer of Why Franklin went with the Six is that it WORKS and works very well indeed (after a few bugs were worked out). The V-12 is a nice engine in all respects but even then, due to the side-draft air-cooled arrangement of the Franklin, they had to use cam-shafts on the outside of each bank rather than one in the valley. The only V-8 that I know of that had two outside camshafts were the earliest Rolls Royce V-8s.

But it is a Franklin and welcome at all HHFC events where it will be admired for what it is.

The Six cylinder Franklin car of early years was the Model H. Legend has it that the factory built up a race car engine that coupled TWO of the H engines end to end and the transition piece between the two crankcases provided a perfect place to install a thirteenth cylinder. (Franklin used individually cast cylinders throughout their production so adding a cylinder here or there was no big deal). This was the elusive and ultimately unsuccessful 13 cylinder Model H2O air-cooled racing town-car. The H2O was a logical development of the historical Vanderbilt Trials Racer that had two Four-Cylinder (Type C) engines coupled together to make a straight-eight. (I could not resist:D)

A very wise former owner of a nice, dark blue 1910 G Runabout once reminded me that you can decrease the amount of smoke by backing off the oilers until you melt a rod bearing. Then you know just how clean your exhaust can be.

Hello Dean, I drive my 1910 G about 1500 miles a year and have not touched the oiler for the past several years, but check the pockets whenever I get worried and of course at the 500-mile oil change. The rod bolt Heads just barely break the surface when turning over the engine on level ground (i.e in my garage). This turns out to be seven ounces per pocket or just 28 oz for the entire engine. The 1907 crankcase is smaller than the 1910 and I do not know how high your bolt heads are so your numbers may be different. I set the oilers at a scant two drops per cycle when the oil is tank HOT (for 1910, a cycle is 80 revs, not sure about 1907). This gives me a consumption rate of about one quart every 90 miles of normal driving (mostly 3rd gear). The manual indicates 50 miles per quart is nominal. Knowledgeable owners of similar Franklins have driven behind me on tours and say that things look about right. I do not have oil control rings but do have the baffles between the crankcase and cylinders with the narrow slot on the exhaust side of the engine. As I recall, these baffles were a mid-year addition in 1907. You can feel them (or not) by running your hand up the rod. I also have the original pistons which cover the aux ports at TDC. After coming down a long hill to a stop, upon pulling away there is a lot of smoke for a while. When running in Second gear, there is twice the smoke as in Top gear, when running in First gear there is four times the smoke as in Top gear but that is just physics and gear-ratios. Steep hills either up or down will temporarily increase the smoke. The angle of the sun, cloudy days, and cross winds will all affect your perception of the Blue Haze. The most relaxing time is driving at night when there is no visible smoke at all. Great Cars... Can't imagine driving anything else:rolleyes:.

PLEASE. PLEASE..PLEASE! Let the HHFC Registrar know about your cars that are not listed as well as any other such cars that you know about. The registrar is not omniscient and relies upon owners' input to keep the registry up to date. The Email and postal addresses are in the registry along with a form to mail in if possible. The Email address is also in the ACN but has an obvious typo. I am reluctant to post those addresses in an open forum but if you send me a PM, I will respond with the form and addresses. Thanks,

QUOTE=odat;1143289]A OK folks Tom and I are in only 740 more members to hear from. I have only driven a dozen Franklins but have ridden in many more. Although everything that Tom says about the S16 is true, it begins to sound like a modern car. For a period experience, the model that I can jump into, hang my Left arm out, and drive comfortably without anxiety is the Series 9. They are light, nimble, easy to drive, predictable, smooth and comfy, but still far enough from modern that you get the feeling of driving an antique car. I really like S9s, do not own one, and have no lust in my heart. Every encounter with a Franklin is enjoyable and it is a kick when riding rapidly in a S16s or squeezing into the dicky seat of a S15. The back seat of S11 Sedans are so cozy and sedate that I cannot stay awake. The old Franklins are always an adventure but there is just something sweet and special about Driving a Series9 leisurely on a nice back-road at 20-40 MPH that makes it my favorite series of the Modern Era.