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Everything posted by jbeary

  1. @Ronnie - I'm not too sure about the pricing or availability. I do know that Raybestos still manufactures the stage 1 clutches and seems to have recently introduced another performance line of clutches when I looked. The original post is here: http://60degreev6.com/forum/showthread.php/45950-4t60e-Performance-Rebuild-kit/page2 The poster doing the rebuild, 3400-95-Modified is probably the only person I found instructions such as this from. If you read his entire post, he started by talking about a company in New Jersey offering a "bullet-proof" upgrade kit for the 4T60e. Company name is Level 10 (http://ujue5.xspw3.servertrust.com/Level_10_PTS_Bulletproof_Rebuilding_Kit_p/gmct-gm110-7000.htm). This kit is nearly $400 now and the poster had some complaints about the kit he'd received and decided to go out, do the research himself and buy what he felt were better parts than what had come with the kit. Note that he not only bought the Level 10 "bulletproof" kit but also had to buy a standard kit because he didn't have all the right parts. Granted I think some of the valve modifications were overkill but the very basic parts and pieces that come in these "kits" varies widely. Personally, i started looking for a kit for the 4T60e after I bought a rebuild kit for the Th-400 for the car in the back yard. Could not find anyone aside from Level 10 offering such a kit as the B&M performance master rebuild kit I'd bought and happened upon this guys post. To stay on topic, there's some very good boards out there regarding 3800 engine swaps. Google "3.8 engine swap". The engine swap actually sounds pretty easy if you have a 91. A little more challenging for the 89 and the fact that the 89 transmission is so weak really kills that idea for me. Hooked up to the LN3, the 440t doesn't kill the Reatta. There are lots of junked ssei's with bad 4T60e's. That's the thing about the LN3, it's too wimpy for the 440t to get completely beat up. If you try to add more power to the LN3 it gets pricey real fast and the same goes for the 4 speed autos of the era. When you get to the mid-90's these L67's having all that air shoved into them, they had to get better and they did. That's why I'm suggesting Harry buy this engine with the transmission. At 80K on the clock, I'd call a 98 3.8 sc engine "gently used". Paying someone to modify a cradle that would accommodate this engine and getting the driveline hooked up would be less in the long run than rebuilding a junk engine like I plan to do. Any thought about that Daniel?
  2. I have seen posts from people who say the most direct swap from any series 1 set up to a series 2 is to swap the entire subframe. The 91 half shaft is the only thing you need to put the series 1 bolted to the 440T4 into a 89 subframe as far as I know. Get the ECM and as much wiring as you can either way just in case. Supposedly the 89-95 Riviera subframes are the same as the Reatta's, I don't know for sure though. The 96 and beyond L67's were decked and the block is shorter so none of the mounts line up to the earlier subframe. The 95 and later ECM pinouts are different too so you have to think about the wiring or rewiring. The most straightforward method is to keep all of your existing sensors and wiring and just let your existing ECM manage the supercharged engine. You will need a new fuel map burned onto your chip. Speak with Ryan Gick of Sinister Performance in Fort Wayne who has done his share of these. He's very responsive and offers some very practical advice and I recommend contacting him. You can always resell these L67 engines so if you are waiting to make a purchase, I would not hesitate.
  3. Daniel inspired me to pick up a supercharged 3.8. Bought complete engine and tranny out of a 93 Bonneville for $350 from our local pull a part. I stuck with a first gen series 1 to avoid all the motor mount and driveline issues. Still trying to convince myself that I need this in my 91 when I really want it in my 89. From what I have read, and please correct me if I am wrong here experts, dropping a series 1 into a 91 is the best plug and play option. The drive line is the major issue for the 90 and earlier "E" body cars with the 440T4. If you've done this swap in a Fiero you know this all too well. I really wanted a 94/95 series 1 but didn't think that was the best way to go unless I expected to burn up a tranny every few years. I'm thinking the lower horse powered 93 could help with that as well as torque steer. You can swap any motor into any car given enough time and money, but if you want the touch screen, the series 1 hooked to a built up 440T4 is the best way to go. There's plenty of into out there about beefing up the 440T4, but many people tend to focus on the 4T60e because this was more widely used and is more widely available. I understand you can piggy back ECM's and use a 91 or later ECM to control the shift points for the 4T60e in a 88 or 89 and still keep the original ECM for the diagnostics, but you will need to find a driver side axle to retrofit the newer transmission. Best situation is to find a 4T60-HD from an 1989-1990 Pontiac Grand Prix with the turbocharged engine, spend $2k to beef up that transmission and then you still have the TV cable controlling the shift points. For everyone who eventually reads this I wanted to post a very good parts list to consider when rebuilding your 4T60e for a supercharged swap. I can't remember if I pulled this from a Bonneville or Fiero swap forum but so far it's the most comprehensive and complete list I can find. I had nothing to do with compiling this list, I only want to pass on the expertise here: Valves: Purchased from http://www.<wbr>transmissionpartsusa.com 84754-22k Torque converter clutch apply valve kit (standard size) 91-96 84754-23K Anti-stick 1-2 shift valve 84754-25K hi-ratio Reverse & modulated line boost kit 84754-36k 2-3 Shift Valve 94-97 84754-37k 3-2 Downshift valve 91-up 84754-38k 3-4 Shift valve 91-up 84754-39k 4-3 Downshift valve 91-up Hard Parts: Purchased from http://www.bulkpart.com A84570B 4th Clutch hub & Shaft (No bearing at clutch hub end/Sleeve race at splined end) 96-99 A84624 Shell, Reverse Reaction, Black Hardened Clutches: Purchased from http://www.level10.com (I recommend http://www.wittrans.<wbr>com for others, MUCH cheaper) 84119EAS1 (wittrans number) Friction Module Stage 1 95-up (Raybestos Part #RCPS-32) Steels: Can be purchased from http://www.wittrans.com (<wbr>I got mine from level10 after complaining) 84139EA Steel Module, L94-UP Kits: Purchased from http://www.<wbr>transmissionpartsusa.com 37936 4t60e Transmission Shift Kit, 1991-1999 (Shift Improver/correction kit, NOT PERFORMANCE) Rebuild kit: Mine came with level10 Kit, I recommend this for othershttp://www.<wbr>transmissionpartsusa.com Or second FULL kit fromhttp://www.<wbr>northernautoparts.com 37023 Transmission soft Overhaul kit 91-99 (No bonded Pistons, No steels, No fibers) Soft kit, Gaskets, o-rings, sealing rings. 84008EA TranStar Deluxe Rebuild kit (includes Pistons, steels, fibers, front band, and filter) Bands: Can be purchased at http://www.Bulkpart.com A84026A 1st & 2nd (Center Band) 1-2 Coast 91-up B84022E FWD (Rear band) 91-up B84024A Reverse (Front Band) 91-up Bushing Kit: Can be purchased at http://www.Bulkpart.com 84030E Bushing Kit 91-up Thrust washer kit and Misc items: Purchased from http://www.<wbr>transmissionpartsusa.com 37670A 4t60e Thrust Washer kit 93-up 84532-01k Differential Lube Tube Retainer 84881 Solid pump slide pivot Pin (pack of 5) 4662 Transmission Pump vane (9 needed) 37954 3rd Clutch Bonded Rubber Piston 91-99 (If needed) 37953 2nd clutch Bonded Rubber Piston 91-99 (I would suggest replacing during rebuild) 37888 4t60e Dual red strip vacuum Modulator 83-99 (Universal Adjustable type) Sprags: MUST REPLACE STOCK on 95-older http://www.bulkpart.<wbr>com A44654 1991-1995 1-2 Roller (springs rub inner race and burn out causing failure.) A84652A 1-2 Roller 1996-up (Factory one typically lasts just fine.) Now everything that has been done to my trans has been done in an odd fashion… I first purchased a Deluxe rebuild kit from Northern Auto which included all the bonded pistons for the apply clutches, two bands, and more, Part Number #84008EA… The piston are not always needed since they don’t wear out that often and most of the apply pistons have lip seals which come in the soft kit. Also when I purchased this full kit it contained the full bushing kit so I did not have to purchase this separate, I listed all the items separate above because if you buy a full kit you waste money on a set of clutches you won’t use. I didn’t do the math, but if you get a full kit that comes with steels and bushings pistons, and bands (if noted) then you may save some money over buying all individual. I only recently did the Stage 1 kit from Level 10 where I'm replacing all the clutches and steels, and replacing my bands since I found a burnt one, and also putting in all new seals since I'm in there, I'm leaving the bushings alone since they look just fine.
  4. No offense at all Padgett. I think there are exceptions to every rule and generalizations often offend so I apologize. Did not want to kill this thread because it's helpful in understanding why/how I can let the other two cars I've had for years languish while I spend time and money on my Reatta's. Also, I wouldn't say that my father in law does not work, but he certainly does not have a boss where my father does. Granted my father works 1/2 day's but he still drives in every day and is available in case of emergencies. My father taught me cobol when I was a child and while I never wanted it, my profession is in computers too. Would rather be doing something else for money but can't seem to find anything that suits me and pay's what they pay at my current jobby. My father enjoys putting out fires and I don't. Truly want to understand the generational thing here because while my wife owned and loved her Saturn SC coupe, she hates the Reatta. Just does not like the major overhang of the front end. She's a designer by training but runs the record store we own. Crazy how technology can be embraced differently over the course of generations and I regularly see new customers, young and old coming in buying records where I thought by now there would be few hold outs. I tell the kids I speak with to buy CD's and avoid the trouble of vinyl if they don't want to at least clean their needle... to maybe try and understand the concept of listening to the point of critical listening. Surprising me more is the younger females embracing vinyl where there wasn't that cross section when I started seriously collecting. Yes, you are correct, there are lot's of people who are into hunting for that $200-$500 rare record just to tell their friends that they have it. Fact of the matter is, if you have money, you can easily buy whatever you want. However, (generally speaking) attaining that position comes with years of refinement. And yeah, just because I can, I still don't buy what I know I won't enjoy. I don't get much satisfaction from having something someone else wants yet lots of record nerds do. If I hear someone bragging about having a huge collection or how they have this or that rare record, I instantly know that they are more interested in accumulating rather than collecting. That's the difference between having four huge paperweights and loving the cars I have. By no means do I consider myself a car "collector" but I do have a small collection of cars. Like you say, the best opportunity to have something pre-loved is when estates turn over and that's exactly where we are with the timing of the Reatta's popularity. What I really love is that this car is waaayyy over-engineered. And properly maintained, it's a horribly dependable car albeit not all that seat of the pants exciting. Sort of like a comfy old coat. And it was easier to justify this car to my wife over a vette or something screaming for attention.
  5. I have to do this and can post pics if that would be helpful. There is one screw off to the lower right in my 91 but the majority of what's blocking my harness is in the lower left side. The unit I have is much deeper than the stock radio but the Metra kits KDirk mentions presents a very usable solution that should look very good when complete. Best solution would be to mount a iPad mini or other tablet and link that to a receiver mounted in the console below. There's plenty of unused space behind the cubby (where the CD player was) in my 91.
  6. Damn Ronnie. Why do people like picking on you so much? Link hit counts matter and why you can't use a link in your signature is as padgett said an "arbitrary" policy decision... Walter, speaking of FREE, my uncle died last year and his prized 928 is still in the garage. He also owned a Toyota Solara. I told my aunt to sell the Solara for $6k and give the Porsche away because she'd eventually have to pay someone to haul it off. Solara is gone, Porsche is still there if anyone wants it I can send them the address in Kenner, La. Both cars needed work but at least I could get the Toyota to start. I think Padgett put up a good post with very very valid points about the 90's in general. The "greatest generation" drove innovation like no other generation in modern history. My folks, part of the "silent generation" prospered in a long span of peacetime. My wife's parent's generation, the "baby boomers" went to 'nam, came back, had trouble adapting but still prospered and passed all sorts of emotional garbage onto their children when their dreams of the 60's quickly faded from 1963 on into (and through) the distress of the mid sixties to the mid seventies. As a comparison, work ethic being one point, my father in law worked so he could retire, my father still works. What one sees as a means to an end the other sees as an end to the means. The Reatta was designed by the "silent generation" and came into being after being filtered through the "baby boomer" generation. The Reatta is an anomaly, so is the LeSabre T Type. At some point in high school (probably after seeing American Graffiti), I got it in my mind that I wanted my first car to be a '55 Chevy. I found one locally and remember my telling my dad about it and his remark was: "Why do you want a piece of s**t like that"? He bought me a really nice 72 Monte Carlo with those captain chair seats, AM/FM, A/C... I sold that car, bought the '55 Chevy and drove that tank back and forth to school for a year. I could not wait to sell it so I could have another GM "A" body. I ended up with the GS 400 by the time I'd graduated. When I could actually afford to carry a note, I bought a Grand National after college. While I knew about the Reatta, I was never much interested in it until 20 some odd years later. I never thought I'd own a front wheel drive car but I LOVE this car. IMHO, I think the value of the 68-72 GM's are being set by people who missed out on owning one back in 1980. The gen-x'rs are just coming of age now, once their kids are gone and they have some cash, they too will be looking to buy something they missed out on. And the cars from the 90's are mostly forgotten now and hardly show up in your local junkyard because people of generation X were either too busy to notice or didn't ever care that the car Lee Iacocca was riding in while waving the American flag was powered by a Japanese engine. Scarcity NEVER dictates value, popularity does.
  7. KDirk, Was is you who did the post regarding the cross possibilities available from Rat Shack? I think you'd covered the RadioShack 12VDC Inverter and their tape, (which seems unavailable now).
  8. All, I've run out of resources trying to find part numbers 22527791 and 22527792 which are the upper and lower spring insulators for the front struts. Since these were used across different platforms, I hope someone will tell me that these are easily had. Anyone know where to source suitable replacements? THANKS! Jeff
  9. Great write up Kdirk. Thanks for the details. Will look for that font. I can't imagine cutting a decal with such a thin border with an exacto knife. The polystyrene base of the mirror switch would end up in pieces. I've often looked at used cricuts on eBay wondering if they can make intricate cuts like this. I know there are expensive machines that do this type of detail but it'd be great to have something cheap that could do this even if it took longer than it should. Were your decals printed on vinyl or on some sort of acetate? Even a thick foil would be hard to join to the substrate without some bubbles but that's me. You guy may have better techniques; did you have problems like this? Also wondering if you've tried a dulling spray to tone down the gloss. Finally, if the decal isn't reverse painted, I think your decal has some translucence to begin with so mask the text and spray the back with matte black. You may already know that any good inkjet printer usually has two blacks and sometimes a glosser or de-glosser. The thought is, if you're going to go through the trouble of preparing camera ready art to have a screen pulled, why not try your art on a good water slide decal paper hit with a satin de-glosser. Heck, you could get real fancy and throw some blue and purple overtones in there on one sheet. I bet water slide would cut more easily too and hold up at least as well as the original foil overlay.
  10. Kdirk, there was an earlier post you'd made about a jobber you had in mind who could make up the metallic decals with the text perforated. See:http://forums.aaca.org/showthread.phpt=349924&page=2&p=1162778&viewfull=1#post1162778 If you need camera ready art I can do that, pm me the requirements. Also interested in what you're trying at home so please fill us in. I was was a little surprised to see these are electroluminescent. I thought the gear shift inset was the only thing like that on the car recalling a post about this in 2013. These are much different than a vinyl decal. This is made of thin foil with the text perforated and then glued onto a electroluminescent panel. The panel is mounted on Mylar with copper conductors for the power supply. Pretty cool design and considering the inverter would be yet another specialized part, I now see why GM went bankrupt. I know the IPC is a unique phosphorescent display, but this type of display is often used, I guess maybe as much as led's. What other cars had these electroluminescent decals? They really are a snazzy design because 99% is what you don't see unless your decal is torn like these below. Anything that could laser etch foil could do the font easily. And I don't think obtaining the correct font would be hard. I also think you could make hundreds of these an hour but it'd take five times as long if you expect to create an electroluminescent panel to stick the foil decal over. Panel info is here: http://electroluminescence-inc.com
  11. I pulled a console today. Pm me your email addy and I will send you a scan. If you need it to be a specific canvas size or file format, let me know that too. There's little detail left in these so most likely all you'll have is the correct template size. I agree with Mc_Reatta, reproducing an overlay would probably take at least three layers and would be difficult to correctly reproduce. Although if you have access to a Roland versastudio, I may have some specific requests.
  12. Yo Kdirk, y'all's rollin in style, fo shizzle. I'd be all up in dat mah self if'in i didn't have me two o me own. Check this, if I brought home another hoopty, it better be comfy enuf to sleep in fo sho. Try in' to keep mah shortie happy up in da crib, if'in y'all know. Two g's can bring out the happydizzle dance when it be new shoes or sumptin other than another Brrrureck. Sposin' I need to sell one byb grl be fo I go an be buyin another.
  13. Ya Kdirk. If you want to make a few hundred bucks on your recent 91 purchase, I think I could swing $2k this month.
  14. Sorry... First name is Jeff. I use jbeary for everything, sometimes to my disadvantage! Kerry is my wife. I have a book that came out about 1989, which I think was the first of the Grand National books. It documents everything known to that point about Grand Nationals but focuses on the last Grand National made which went to the author who I recall lived in Louisiana. My car came from a New Orleans dealer who brought it to auction as a trade in. The only GNX I know that sold in BAton Rouge was from Gerry Lane. These cars were plentiful elsewhere but scace here. I will post photo's of the book as well as my trunk option RPO's. The only year I know for sure offered leather was 1984. Other years did not on the WE2 option coded cars. MANY people will show leather in a 87 car on eBay. Also I see MANY 86's being passed off as 87's. With as many cars as were built I guess that's easy for a rube to miss. Walter... the 78 Regal Sport Coupe was/is very rare. Possibly optioned this way to compete with the 78 442 Cutlass of the same time. SUPER nice but very underpowered. Would really like one of those now! I absolutely loved this body style and we had a nice 78 Cutlass that I thought was super "cush" at the time. First car to have the headliner drop and that was it's demise! Could see why many of these still roll with them 24" dubs..
  15. Will check this out and let you know. I was under the impression (probably from the FSM) that GM hadn't standardized the option acronym list until after 1995, when ODBII was introduced. Possibly this is why I've been thinking that you had to go back to GM and find out your info. Is there any relation to their standardization of option codes and the introduction of ODBII? I know that the ALDL of my 87 Grand National can't tell me if it came optioned as a WE2 and without the RPO sticker I probably couldn't sell the car as a real Grand National because people have swapped these or created their own copies. The only way I know of to tell what any GM car was optioned with is to match up the VIN with the RPO sticker in the trunk and then look up the codes. I don't think Compnine does that specifically but it probably get's pretty close. Here's a good example: The 84 Grand National could be ordered with leather seats (trim code 995), and that was the only year they were offered, yet you see many "87 Grand National's" with leather seats where the seller is stating they are original to the car. My guess is that GM does not want to have to pay to do the one to many collation but maybe could help with a dump of raw data if that does in fact exist. Not just what were the RPO's of any given year, but having the VIN to RPO relationship could be very revealing (probably the same data Compnine uses). And then, if someone at GM could verify what you (we) think are very standard packages against anomalies (outliers) of handful of VIN's with whatever internal RPO lists, that information would be very useful. Wonder if GM has a research department that can be contacted? Maybe through the GSCA???
  16. Hi Harry, Yes... It looks, at least to my untrained eye, that the exhaust valve is a little lower than the intake valve. I kind of thought that the spring could be weak so I swapped the intake and the exhaust which seemed to help at first but when the car cooled it went back to missing. This is a dead miss too. The plug looks completely brand new on this cylinder but I smell the gas and know I'm getting good spark and fuel. The engine does not consume oil but with an original radiator and obvious evidence of prior cooling issues I have to think the seat or valve itself is bad. I have another sender I could try and will start a new thread on what I feel are head issues, but still would like to know if the oil pressure itself could be affected by a momentary increase in crankcase pressure. I mean I know that this is what the PCV valve is supposed to do, right? I did change the PCV valve if that matters. What if the PCV is clogged? Would that change the oil pressure?
  17. Can you PM some pics??? Wondering if you have rust issues...
  18. Hi Padgett, I know that I probably have an issue with my sensor, because my oil pressure fluctuates between 40 and off the scale high. I also know that I have a problem with the exhaust valve in cylinder 5. I don't know if the valve is burned or if there's a problem with the lifter. I plan to get a kit from Harbor Freight to do a leak down test so I haven't done that yet. What I have done is to take the valve cover off and while #5 was TDC I pulled the springs and neither intake or exhaust were stuck. However, after putting the springs back on and running the car until hot, the misfire on #5 disappeared and my pressure remained normal. When it cooled down it was back to the way it was before. I don't know what constitutes a sticky valve, but I still don't think the exhaust valve is closing all the way because I can hear it popping through the tail pipe. I had a z-28 with a worn cam lobe and that exhaust valve was stuck closed and you could hear it popping from the carb so this seems like its the reverse and this valve isn't closing all the way. Changed injectors, plugs, wires and ICM/Coil to no avail. Would a situation where there were gas and spark happening while a exhaust valve was stuck open cause the oil pressure to fluctuate wildly? I'm thinking pressure from the ignition cycle pushed through the crankcase could also cause a temporary increase in pressure. Is this possible? Car also shudders when locking into 4th gear and I think that means I'm lacking torque.
  19. I signed up for a Compnine temp account before I bought my 91 Polo green coupe #1429 and it matched for the most part. I'd have to go back to review, but from what I can recollect, Compnine did not show that the trim was also painted. Makes sense the trim is painted but then I guess it could have been done afterwards too. If Compnine can generate a list of options based upon vin numbers, I'd be surprised but it'd surely make paying for the service worthwhile. Correct me if I'm wrong here Barney, but didn't you start your database with data supplied directly from GM? Not that you can go back to the same people now but have you tried to recently contact GM to ask if they can spend some time verifying the data you've since collected? Maybe that's a better path, I don't know.... One thing I can say for sure, if you are in GM's upper management, I'm sure you could ask for and get whatever you wanted. If you worked at the Craft Center and had management approval, I'd bet you could build the car you wanted to as well.
  20. Hi Nic, Here's a few more pics of the horizontal band of underlayment. This is the grey piece running under the seat as well as the plastic wire channel. I don't know how the 91 compares to the 89 with regards to this but I do know that the plastic channel (the black thing with wires sticking out for the console and power seats) is most likely the same from what I've read in other posts. This carpet was never pulled before and you'd have to remove both seats to remove the carpet entirely and if you removed only one seat then this piece would be about half of the 60" length you describe. I mean crossways the car is about five feet wide from sill to sill and there's no other pieces that came out from under the carpet that was only 10 1/2 " wide. The black plastic channel actually sits on top of this grey flannel piece so start measuring from one side on this to the vent that's under the seat. If you pulled the vent piece along with the footwell piece, this maybe where the confusion starts. Please let me know if this helps. I may be pulling the interior of an 89 this weekend if I can get help at the yard and can take pics then if the backing is different. Or perhaps you can post a pic of what you're seeing?
  21. That's good info Daniel. Thanks and will PM you about the chip. I should have posed the ECM question differently; will a Buick ECM work with a Pontiac engine? I know that many of these parts are interchangeable between makes and maybe that's the adapter you mention.
  22. Hi Nic, Here's a couple of pics that show where the rectangular pieces are placed in my car. I know that the vertical pic is very blurry but hope you can see the beginning of the passenger rocker at the top. It's been raining on and off all day today and this is the best I can do at this time. I hope to get better pics if it's clear tomorrow. The horizontal pic shows where the pad abuts the center console and you can see where the seat power comes from out of the plastic channel on the left. The drivers seat is in the car now and you can't see that so these lack some good perspective. If this helps, great. If not I hope to get better ones up soon.
  23. Thanks guys. There's a few seemingly complete supercharged 3800's at a local pull a part. They charge a base price no matter the engine type or size. None of these I saw still had a ICM and coil pack and while I know one was in a Rivera the other two were in Pontiac's. I know Daniel has done a lot great descriptive posts on this subject but without having to pour over these now can you all let me know if the best option for a swap would need to come from another Buick or could the ECM come from a Buick and the engine come from a Pontiac? Also, there's a base price for the engine including the transmission or just the engine itself and if bought separately these would cost more than if they were bought together. My preference would to buy both at the same time. Is this wise considering that the tranny bolts to the engine cradle? Seriously considering building one of these up but would need to know what to tell a machine shop or just go as stock as possible. Could never go as in depth as 2Seater has with his but would love more low end torque from my 89. The 91 I have seems almost perfect.
  24. Awww man. There goes my summer vacation plans. Any experts want to comment on the development cycle of the 2 liter that Buick is using in this new CXL? Anyone know the most recent 3.8 liter that generated at least 285hp & 295 ft lbs of torque stock?
  25. I know that a 3800 with a supercharger isn't exactly plug and play for the Reatta. Considering the trouble it'd take to make modifications to the cradle and electronics, what engines (makes/models/years) make the best candidates for conversions?