1912Minerva

Hi Phil, Mine is marked on the teeth opposite to where the camshaft gear and crankshaft gear align. Because you have marked a "valley", the opposite spot should be the tip o a tooth I think. These marks can then be set in relation to the centre punch marks on the camshaft housing where the magneto gear cover bolts on. My marks were actually out by 2 teeth and we had to check the valve timing looked right at various settings before deciding what the final position must be. In terms of gasket thickness / backlash, I just used some normal gasket paper and it seems to work ok but there is some detailed discussion on this point somewhere on this forum which I will try and find. You must be getting close!! Cheers, Andrew.

Hi All, After getting my Hup 20 running I tried to drive it but found the motor was slowing and stalling when I pushed my foot on the clutch. On taking the motor and gearbox out and separating them, I can see the problem: the ring that presses onto the clutch to disengage it (first pic) has nothing between it and the clutch. As it presses on the clutch it is just slowing and stalling the motor. I have purchased a Torrington needle roller bearing of the right ID and Ok OD and associated thrust washers for either side but I'm not sure if this is the best solution. There is a groove on the drum which houses the clutch spring (see black arrow on 2nd pic) so am wondering what originally should be here? I have read about 2 bronze discs and a fibre disc on this forum - are they for this spot? If so, where can I source them? As always, any help would be much appreciated! Regards, Andrew.

Hi Max and all, Thanks for your replies. The baffle for the cam gear is a good idea and I think will largely fix the problem (why didn't I think of something like that ??). Is there a way to adjust the clutch brake so it comes on later in the travel of the clutch pedal? I can put a bit of pressure on the clutch pedal to pull the car into reverse or first gear and off I go but when I try to change into top the car comes to a shuddering halt. Can you adjust the clutch pedal travel so it only goes to a certain point? Does anyway have a diagram of the clutch / gearbox for the Model 20? The instruction book has good diagrams of the motor but not much on the transmission side of things... When running, my engine has a bit of whining noise which I have noticed to some degree in most Model 20's - some more so than others. Is this the noise of the cam gear meshing with the crankshaft? Thanks again for your help and advice - I seem to be making progress anyway...! Cheers, Andrew.

Hello all, I now have my Hup 20 torpedo running - its first time in 50+ years I think. The motor starts on the crank very easily and idles nicely. I drove it for the first time today and it went Ok but there are a couple of problems. Firstly, I have heaps of oil coming out of the area where the magneto is driven from the camshaft. I have the cover on but oil is still pouring out. Is there a trick to sealing this or maybe a sign I have a bit too much oil in the crankcase? The other problem is that the engine slows significantly when I put my foot on the clutch - everything seems very loose with the linkages so I am hoping with proper adjustment this problem will diminish. Any help or advice on either issue, as always, would be much appreciated! Regards, Andrew.

G'day Phil, All those points are greasers on my car - hope that helps. Cheers, Andrew.

Phil - I would be interested depending in price. Regards, Andrew.

G'day All, The valve springs on my Hup 20, while OK, look they have done a fair bit of work - does anyone know if new valve springs can be sourced and where from? Also, I'm after any tips on joining the inlet and outlet manifolds to the block ie., what type of gasket and sealant do folks use? Also after similar tips to how people join the water inlets (the pipe at the top of the blocks and the one that runs behind the oil reservoir tank). I have redone mine and they seem fine - I used a black gasket material and water pump sealant (permatex) and it seems to be OK. Many thanks in advance and regards to all, Andrew.

Hi Max, Yes, I suspect you're right. I am going to look into a few options before I turn it into a boat anchor! You don't know of any one in Australia with a block they would be prepared to sell do you? Cheers, Andrew.

Hi All, I thought I was making some headway with my Hup 20's engine at last but have had another set back. After experiencing a leak in the combustion chamber (see a previous post) and leaks around the studs in Block No. 2 (Cylinders 3 & 4) I blanked off the side water inlet and filled the block up with water. After a while, I noticed a very slight weep of water developing in the outlet port of No. 4 exhaust. A bit of prodding with the sharp end of a needle file and soon I had a gush. More prodding and now I have hole around half an inch long x a quarter of an inch wide...See attached pic. At least it is somewhat accessible. Short of a new block, I am after some suggestions as to how to repair. Ideas contemplated so far: 1. Try and fill with a high temp epoxy as it is 2. Angle the block with the corner the hole is in down and fill that corner with some filling agent such as the cement they use in drag racing engine blocks (or some such product) 3. Tap a bolt up through the bottom of the water jacket so the end of the bolt draws up just beneath the hole to provide some positive reinforcement for some sort of epoxy 4. "Glue" a patch over the hole with epoxy and then cover the patch with more epoxy (not so keen on that idea as if this fails, the loss of water may be very quick and fatal to the engine) Any other suggestions??? Has anyone had a similar problem on a Hup or other old car? Regards to all, Andrew.

Hi Everyone, I am about ready to put my Hup 20 motor back together - this is a motor that has never run (since a rebuild 10+ years ago). I currently have disassembled it down to the crankshaft in the crankcase (still in the car). While I marked the location of the gear on the crankshaft with respect to the large timing gear on the camshaft (and taken reference photos), I don't actually know if it was in the correct position to start with (ie. before I pulled it apart). Is there a way I can check this? I have read the Hup 20 manual but about replacing the side plate and retiming the motor but this is really assuming that the motor was already timed correctly before it was pulled apart. Any advice, as always, would be greatly appreciated. Regards, Andrew.

Nice! Wish I had a Breeze for my car - I'm going to try a new Holley from a T Model. Cheers, Andrew.

Hi Max - thanks again for that. Another q (for anyone!) - what arrangement do you use for the nuts on the big ends? My engine has nylock nuts fitted which seem to be OK but am wondering whether ordinary nuts with Loctite would be better? Does anyone wire the nuts? Regards to all. Cheers, Andrew.

Thanks very much for your reply Max, I thought it was strange that there were no grooves. Now, just to be sure I understand your description, I have drawn a few lines on my picture of the end cap - hopefully this is (kind of) what you meant?? Cheers, Andrew.

Hi All, Thanks Max for your reply - most useful. I think I am getting there but have now completely disassembled the pistons and have found that the big end caps, although babbitted nicely, don't have any oil grooves located in the babbit bearing to spread oil across the bearing face. See pic below. I am assuming they should, to allow oil to get every where that it needs to? If I am correct in thinking this, what is the suggested pattern for the grooves? A friend has suggested a V-shape to take the oil from the inlet hole towards the edges of the bearing. Also, my big end caps were fitted with Nylock nuts - do folk visiting this forum think they will be OK? (As opposed to locktite, wired up nuts etc.) Thank you and regards, Andrew.

And...on a related topic! The valves on my motor seem very loose, they are Australian made DUFOR N valves that look to have been turned down to 7.8mm. I would be interested in what type of valves people are running in their Model 20's - will Model T valves work? Cheers, Andrew.

Hi All, Getting ready to reassemble my Model 20 motor after fixing a water leak in the combustion chamber of No. 3 cylinder when we noticed that the gudgeon pins (wrist pins) in the pistons do not have the normal circlips to contain the gudgeon pin within the piston. There is a pinch bolt securing the gudgeon pin on the underside of the piston. We looked at adding circlips but noticed that when we moved the pistons on their gudgeons to a point where the circlips would fit in the grooves in the piston, the pistons seemed out of alignment with the holes in the crankcase. Does this seem strange to anyone? Is there any issue with running the motor with out circlips? Maybe the bolt holding the piston to the gudgeon is not centred properly? Attached are a few images so you can see what I'm talking about. Any thoughts / comments appreciated. Regards, Andrew.

Hi Max and everybody, Happy New Year! Max - yes the sleeve has been chamfered to fit the rings so all good there. Thanks for the tips about checking the other block as well. I have the other block off as well and will have it properly pressure tested shortly to make sure it doesn't have the same problem as it's neighbour. One things thing the engine guy who put my sleeve in recommended was that I fill the void below the stud that holds the water channel to the top of the block with a two part epoxy to reinforce the sleeve and make sure no water leakage occurs into the combustion chamber. I put a piece of wire down this void and it is quite deep - can anyone tell me if the void area below this stud actually has water circulate through it or am I Ok to fill it with epoxy? Cheers, Andrew.

Hi Phil, I just noticed from one of your photos that you were using a ring compressor when putting your block back on down over the pistons... as I will be putting my blocks back on shortly, can I ask how you did this? Does your ring compressor open up so that you can slip it past the piston once the rings are in? Regards, Andrew.

Hi Everyone, For those interested in my tale of woe, the block has now been repaired with a sleeve being inserted. Where the stud that holds the water pipe on top of the block is, the stud must have been seized or broken and someone drilled out the old stud and put a thread insert in. When drilling, they went way too deep, into the combustion chamber. So, hopefully I'm back in business! By the way, what is the trick to getting the bonnet rod out? It looks like it is threaded at both ends - when I turn it, it loosens off one end but tightens on the other? I got the blocks off without removing the bonnet but it would be a lot easier to put the blocks back on with the bonnet (hood) off. Thanks for the "keep positive messages". Cheers, Andrew.

Hi Phil, Yep - I think the whole combustion chamber was full for this to happen. Luckily the priming cup was not screwed in too tight or I may not have even known. I have now pulled the block off and it looks like it might be a pin hole in the cylinder wall. The block is at an engine shop and they will pressure test it properly early next week and see if it is repairable. Otherwise I may have a very expensive boat anchor .... Will keep you posted. Regards, Andrew.

Hi All, I filled the radiator on my Model 20 Hup for the first time and water quickly started leaking out of one of the priming cups (from the thread where it screws into the cap). Obviously this is not good!! There must be crack or corrosion between the wall of the water jacket and the combustion chamber. Is there any way of fixing this? It seems to be worst on No.3 cylinder. Any suggestions very welcome... Thanks and regards, Andrew.

Thanks again 1910_Anon and Trimacar, Will try and track down a set of DU4 CCW points from somewhere, however, will see how I go with the points I have now. Will dab a bit of Vaseline to lubricate. 1910_Anon, the serial number of the magneto that came with my car is 3523759. It also has "DU4 Ed. 18" stamped on it - "Edition 18" maybe? Thanks for the info on the switch wiring, I guess what I was wondering about is the arrangement of the wires on the actual switch terminal post. It only has one so are the 2 wires separated by an insulated fibre washer or similar? Regards, Andrew.

Hi again 1910_Anon, I checked the magneto that came with my Hup and it has CCW points (although the arrow on the oil flap points to the right). I built a simple magneto tester (the design of which I stole from the Model T forum!) and I get a nice blue spark for each terminal so I am happy. I am also including a picture of the tester in case any one is interested. Thanks for your information - I am learning all the time... On a related matter, can anyone tell (or show) me how you wire the magneto up to the switch on the dash??? Regards, Andrew.

Hi 1910_Anon, Interesting - I'm glad I posted the photos! Can I use a clock wise magneto and reorder the spark leads to get correct firing order? I bought this magneto for another car I have (a Minerva) but was told it was from a Hupmobile. As it looks in better condition than the one that came with my Model 20, I thought I would use it. However, if I can't use the clockwise one, I may have to use the orginal one. Will send some pics of under the cover when I next get the chance. Thanks again. Another example of how useful this forum is. I apprciate it. Regards, Andrew.

Tom - thanks very much for that explanation, that all seems clear. I'm looking forward to getting my hands on a copy of that book - hopefully it is in the mail! Thanks again, Andrew.