120mm
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Posts posted by 120mm
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See your thread popped up from 2012. What progress have you made?
Are you replying to me, or the other two people who've hijacked my thread?
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How is this project coming along? Been a while.
I've taken it down to a body shell on a chassis. Fenders and front end off, broken glass removed and 2 tons of rodent defecation blown out.
I'll be honest; I am starting to regret having started. Plus the driving force behind doing this (my father) recently passed away.
I am seriously considering letting someone else take this on; If someone wandered by with some money and promised to take it away, I might be tempted.
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I have a allmost complete 1938 Dodge D8 for parts. Let me know your needs. Thanks Dave.I shall!
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We are two months past your last report on the engine, Sept 11th. Any progress on loosening up those pistons? Just curious on the "soak time" for this job.
I have reached the "perfect storm" of "not working on the car.
My work has kind of overtaken my life, but that's good in that it increases money available.
#2 cylinder still is stuck as all get out. Penetrating oil now goes through all the others freely.
So there I am.
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Somehow I had missed ever seeing this thread. Just going to chime in and say my first car, 50 years ago this year was a '38 Dodge touring sedan, much the same as yours. It was 18K miles sitting on blocks in a garage in Chicago and the owner had passed away. As a 15, 16, 17 year old kid I disassembled everything except body from frame, learned numerous restoration skills and much basic automotive knowledge. That car was used in my first wedding.
Photo attached I'm installing the grille in 1964. Good luck with your family Dodge and enjoy the whole process.
Wow. I love that pic!
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Thanks! I can use any information I can get!
Drew
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Hi there, Good job on the trunk latch.
I filled my D.A. engine with diesel fuel in the spark plug holes and forgot about it for a few months. when I remembered it I put my 18" shifter on the drive dog and pushed. It moved easily where before i could jump on it to no avail.
All donks are different though. Keep up the good work and we should all take the view that if we do SOMETHING on our restorations every day then progress is being made. Even the cost free job you did on the latch.
Cheers Beetles
There is hope. I've found a car guy who is willing to do the machine work on the engine. Also, the level of penetrating oil is going down in all cylinders (I think beyond evaporation rates.) I take that as a good sign.
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First the disclaimer: I never unstuck an engine like yours.
But, I read about a guy that dealt with an engine seriously stuck like yours. He used what I would term "sustained torque" by mounting a U-bar on the flywheel and added weights. It took several weeks before the engine loosened up. He actually heard the bar hit the floor and knew it was free!
The clever thing is you just soak the bores add weigh......and wait. Eventually the rings will break loose or something else will break.
By increasing arm and/or weight you can achieve any torque needed.
Tom
P.S. Before doing this I would make sure the timing gear is not jammed, or better remove the chain.
I am stripping everything off the engine when I get to it, and trying that, before I pull it.
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Had a completely awful weekend; lots of busy at work, plus financial news that made me realize just how limited my ambitions need to be on this project. So, I walked into the garage tonight, and noticed that damned trunk sitting open. Ever since I was a child, I remembered that the trunk had been held closed by wire, as the latch didn't work. When I got it to my place, I threw away the wire and just propped the trunk open. Tonight, in a fit of annoyance, I decided to try to fix it. I took the latch off the trunk lid, being extremely careful not to strip out the screws, and did so on two of them anyway. The screws are extremely soft, and are slotted, and were pretty rusted in there. I hosed them down a month ago with penetrating oil, and hosed them down some more tonight before working on them. Once I got the latch off, I noticed that the latch was rusted solid AND it was completely warped out of shape and jammed. It is a pressed together stamped construction, so I straightened out the slots and slipped them back through the tabs. Everything was warped differently, but I imagined what they must've looked like before whatever bent them up, and hammered them back into some sort of straightness, trying and fitting as I went. Cleaned up the internals with CLR, then hosed it down really good with ACR (An aircraft lubricant/protectant) and reassembled. Miracles of miracles it not only fit together, but now it works! Reassembled the whole mess and installed it back in the car, though am still missing the screws that stripped out. Overall, a decent night.
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There is a real risk of bending con rods if you use too much force. I would remove the big end caps (note their positions) and take action from underneath to free the pistons indidvidually. The risk is that you could damage the pistons but if they are available and the engine is really stuck, it might be the cheaper option in the long run. The piston ring groves may be worn anyway so replacement may be on the cards any way.
Ray.
It looks like someone buggered up several of the piston tops prying on them, so some of the pistons need to be replaced anyway.
BTW, I reread my entry, and what I meant to say is "around here" as in where I live, not on this forum. I've heard some things that make sense here.
Either way, I need to watch my spending on this machine, so it's okay to take some time doing this part.
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- The ignition coil is a replacement coil so I would think it may be good. If it was me, I would assume good until proven wrong. ;-)
- Looks like somebody had it in for lights! Everything is broken except the parking lights!
My older brother and sister used it as target practice for rock throwing back in the late 60s. :mad:
The 2331 IS a correct number for a period prefocused headlamp bulb. It is the same number I use in the '36 Dodge Riteway Headlamps. I do think the lens size is different though too.My guess is that the bulbs just twist in the direction of the slots to remove? Or do you push them in and twist?
- The silvering looks pretty much gone from the reflectors. The "Uvira" deal is THE way to go! My headlamps have been using the "Uvira" treatment since about 1986 as I recall. Haven't touched them since!I sadly like the look of the old coppered reflectors. Which means the headlights wouldn't be very effective, would they?
- Taillights are going to need a bit of work. Cleaning up, straightening of the trim ring you have (not a real big deal) and finding another, (at least you have a sample!), chrome painting of the interior, maybe adding a socket for turn signal bulbs in there, and finding the lenses and retainer springs. All that is not too bad actually. Then just have to make sure all paths to ground are clean. You will have nice lights there!6 volt power means everything is much more sensitive to resistance, right? And it's a positive ground, if my research is correct.
- The trunk lid ornament is NICE! Just pack it away until whatever you decide to do with the body paint is done.- The "back-up light" is possibly a dealer added accessory. Has much potential. I don't know anything about them though. Not used on '36.
- The "Unity" fog/driving lamp is pretty standard. I am guessing the one on your car was a bit later aftermarket accessory than the age of your car because there is no sign of a bulb socket there. I am assuming it was therefore sealed beam. You can do a clear "driving" lamp or a yellow "fog" lamp. Which ever you think is most beneficial in your area.
- I see in the second last photo that there is a headlamp relay in the shot. If those were not part of the original wiring for '38, then it was added in an attempt to get more light on the road. Thinking along those lines, the "Unity" lamp was probably a driving lamp (clear) also in an effort to get more light on the road.
- Your dome light looks pretty good too, for a driver. A little cleaning and polishing will go a long way for that. Chrome doesn't look too bad! Watch for a good clean ground again as you go.
- In the 4th shot - do I see the radiator out? If so, moving right along! ANy luck on the piston soak yet?
Hope you are having FUN with it! Take LOTS of photos as you take stuff apart. I know that can be a bit of a pain but you will like yourself for doing it - later!
I have not really done much to unstick the motor. #3, 5 and 6 are letting WD40 past, though, and I believe #1 is starting to as well. One of the reasons I haven't done that much to unstick the motor, is that I just cannot figure a way to effectively put pressure on the motor to turn it without just shearing a bunch of bolts. Rocking the car by myself seems pathetically stupid, and there just isn't a way to get to the crank that I can figure out. I am just going to soak it, take the sheetmetal off the front and yank the engine, but after that I am have no idea what to do. I suppose I could try unsticking it on an engine stand? BTW, none of the auto shops, vintage or otherwise wants to touch the project. But then, my area is populated by former overpaid union factory worker types who Rod everything they can. I've been told in subtle ways my business is not welcome in the shops I've stopped in, and frankly I am stumped.
The other thing is, everyone has advice, claims to be an expert in unsticking motors that I talk to, but I am starting to think they are all full of crap.
This is frustrating to say the least.
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Due to lack of time and funds, didn't really do much, but took some pictures of stuff we've talked about and/or I have been researching. That ignition coil is evidently big bucks to replace. The headlight bulbs are 2331s, fwiw. The license plate light is a must replace, as you can't shine white light to the rear in Iowa.
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I notice that Andy Bernbaum's advertises having all the parts I need. How reliable is the online catalog as for parts accuracy and availability?
The gentleman at Old Car Lenses warns me that one cannot count on sizes being correct just based on make, model and year. He recommends actual measurement of the lens "door" before ordering. His prices are a touch higher than Bernbaum's as well.
Thoughts?
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If the reflectors have all their silvering yet, you can polish them up. I use a chemical called "Tarn-X". It converts the tarnish back to the metal it started as or removes the parts that are too oxidized. If this does not get them shiny then a typical silver polish can be used judiciously. There is not much silver on these brass reflectors.
Another idea is to send them out to a company called "Uvira" where they are stripped, the brass polished, a thin coating of aluminum is flashed on them. Then the whole surface is vacuum coated with a liquefied silica product which seals and protects the "silvered" part. That way they will never need to be polished, only dusted off every few years. The surface is a glass.
Do you have info in your "Owner's Manual" or "Parts Manual" listing the bulb numbers? Does anyone out there know the correct brand and numbers on the lenses? Or possibly good measurements of them for "120mm"?
Then it is just a matter of cleaning all the connectors well, switch contacts at the dash, and making sure the grounding is clean all the way to the bulb socket. They will work well if all this is done!
Here is a site with a lot more researched info on this subject: How good can those antique car headlights be?
That is an excellent link, sir. I am enjoying looking through it, and have already learned a ton.
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Lenses seem to be pretty easy to find yet but the "guts" are going to be a bit harder. You will probably need to find a "donor car" or "parts car" that is being parted put. The reflectors, hardware parts like springs and screws will be needed too. And while finding stuff, be sure to grab the sockets and connector parts of the wiring. They are a bit "specific" in styling. Can't help with photos of any of this for your year. I do have shots of '36 stuff. So if you find out any of it is the same, I can post the '36 stuff.
"DK" - Do you have anything on that stuff?
I wasn't very clear; my headlights are in perfect shape and complete, minus the lenses and the actual bulbs. So what I need are new lenses and bulbs. I imagine I can clean up the reflectors, install new wiring, lenses and bulbs and go with it. So, does anyone know of a source of lenses and bulbs?
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120, I did warn you ;-)
When you have everything apart this is the time to renew passenger side headlamp wiring and possibly replace the fuel line that crosses from driver to passenger side. Once reassembled you can't get to it.
I would also take a close look at the frame in this area. Could be rot in that area from water/dirt accumulating around the front fender bracing.
Tom
Just looking at what remains of the headlamp wiring, I am guessing now is the time to replace everything. At least once I get it apart.
Speaking of headlamps, does anyone sell replacement parts for the non-sealed units, or should I just convert to sealed reproduction units. I like the look of the non-sealed units, frankly, but would go repro if I had to.
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I suppose a pneumatic wrench is too big?
I've seen an old timey one that might work, (basically has an open ended socket), but the pneumatic wrenches I have are all bulkier than my little pear head.
Either way, I have the shields off and will build a tool to reinstall them when it comes to that.
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Be carefull, you might end up making a few if they become popular
I'm amazed at how open this engine space is, yet there is always, and I mean always something immobile in the way when you want to fit a wrench in and turn it.
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Yes, I did. Both flat AND angled. Problem is, the supporting metal doesn't permit those to move even one click.
What I did was use my best 1/4" pear head ratchet with a low profile socket, click it one gear tooth at a time. By that time, the head of the ratchet had backed into the radiator frame, and it took a hammer handle to flex the metal just enough to drive it out with another hammer.
What I'm going to do is get an el cheapo chinese ratcheting box end and clip the 9/16" head off, leaving a stubby with just the 1/2" end with just enough clearance to make it past the bracing.
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So, have been piddling around with the front tin, and finally got the three splash guards off. Talk about a complete PITA. Clearance between the radiator frame and the forward most bolts is tight, add to that the cross frames, and its' annoying as heck. I am going to build a tool to do this in the future, as conventional wrenches or sockets just do not work for a tinker's darn.
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A couple things come to mind:
- A wire wheel on a small electric drill does a pretty fast job on the "goo". Just be sure to wear eye protection!
- When spraying the polyurethane, be sure to do it in very light coats and give it time to tack up. You don't want to build up too much of the solvents in the spray on the decaled woodgrain or you may have issues with it lifting or bubbling. As I recall I sprayed my dash in the sun. The metal was a bit warm so the solvents would evaporate rather quickly for the initial coat. Then I did a bit heavier coats on the following ones. (But still not to the point of running of course!)
- The cylinders that had the open valves will probably be the ones with the most problems sticking. Makes sense anyway. (Another thought - considering the amount of mouse activity there was in the interior, I wonder if they have the muffler packed with "stuff" too???)
I hear you on the light coats thing.
I hadn't considered the open valves issue, but it appears to make sense.
A couple of my piston tops are goobered up pretty good. It looks as if someone took a screwdriver through the spark plug hole and tried to pry on the piston top.
I've discovered a hole in the exhaust pipe just prior to the muffler, so need to remove it anyway.
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Just an update; my professional life has just gotten really busy. I normally have one "customer" at a time and I find myself with three and another two possibly in the wings. Because of that, I've only done extremely limited things.
As of right now, all but cylinders #1 and #2 are letting fluids by. I settled on WD40 because that is what I could find in bulk at the local farm store.
I am starting to clean off the engine compartment, and preparing to remove the front tin, starting with the splash plates, but there is over an inch of old goo on the right side, and nearly that much on the left. The good news is that it looks brand new under the goo.
I took off the glove box cover, and it was extremely easy to disassemble and reassemble. Minor bad news, though and a warning: Alcohol or anything with alcohol in it will just destroy that beautiful wood grain finish. Mine is rather faded in one spot due to my carelessness. I will not make that mistake again. It is reassembled and cleaned up, now, and will hit it with clear polyurethane once I get to the store.
I've taken all the door panels off, preserved what I could of them, and removed the interior window frames. I will clean these up and reinstall for the glass makers. I will reassemble the left front door, which I took apart out of curiosity when I was 15. (33 years ago). Speaking of 15, when I was a young child, I used to enjoy reading the 1950s hot rod novel genre and then pretending to drive this car while it was parked in my father's barn. One of my favorite things was to raise and lower the cowl vent. When it arrived here this time, the cowl vent was frozen in the down position and I have coaxed it into functioning again with a judicious use of Mouse Milk.
My next thing is to continue to mess with the engine short of taking it out (just don't have the time right now) and cleaning up the engine compartment/removing front end tin as I can afford it, time wise.
Otherwise, I am talking to all the old car people I can find. Thank you for the advice so far and I look forward to more in the future.
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Just discovered this thread yesterday and read all the posts w/ great interest. What a cool car, especially being from your family! Looks like you're having fun with it and will be enjoying driving it in the pretty near future. It seemed at first you might have to rebuild the engine and now possibly not as it may have had a rebuild at one point already within it's 80,000+ miles. I also noticed your 1st post was about 2 weeks ago. I too, had a seized engine, but it hadn't sat for as long as yours. My car is a '29 and I don't know if this will work on a '38. I was told to put Marvel Mystery Oil in the cylinders, let it sit at least 2 weeks and then try to turn the nut on front of the crankshaft w/ spark plugs out. Your '38 w/ a crankhole cover may have this nut exposed. I used a heavy duty socket wrench w/ a 6ft. long galvanized pipe that fit over the handle of the socket wrench for more leverage. After 2 weeks mine wouldn't budge, so I put more oil in cylinders and waited another 2 weeks. With that lever and a couple of pushes I felt a little "give" and after working on it a while longer I actually got the motor turning over. It sounded like your valves moved freely...I know Jason mentioned your timing chain might keep it from turning, but if this has been a rebuilt engine I just wonder if there has not been enough time for the penetrating oil to work on an engine that hadn't been run in about 70 years. I am no mechanic and from what this forum has to say as well as the mechanics in your area you'll get plenty of great advice. Just thought I'd mention something that worked for me...and really it was just patience w/ the penetrating oil.
I tried this first. The first thing I noticed, is that even a little torquing on the crank bolt made it feel like I was "stretching" it. This scared me, as this stretching tends to precede "shearing", so I decided to approach it in a different manner. BTW, the harmonic balancer bolts keep you from getting a socket on the crank nut, so the harmonic balancer needs to be removed to do this.
I have a friend who has done this with success in the past. I'd think this technique would be better with a crankshaft turner. That way, if you shear something, it's just a crankshaft turner.
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In my opinion/experience if you can feel a ridge than thats not so good, I know you say minor and thats hard to judge ( on my end ) just something to keep in mind. Not saying that it would not run fine with a ridge just sayin that a ridge any ridge is a sign of mileage.
I am curious to do some measuring, but it appears that the "ridge" is actually carbon from incomplete combustion. Either that, or the bores were slightly undersized from the beginning. I am going to do thorough measurements, either way.
I will talk to an engine rebuilder later today to ask his advice.
Ava, my grandfather's 1938 Dodge D8 Sedan
in Dodge & Dodge Brothers
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So, I am bringing this 4 year old thread back from the dead.
I've been overseas, working, and Ava has been sitting in my back garage. I've returned at last, and I need to get her gone.
The local junkyard will give $200 for her. If someone here wants her whole, and can pick her up while either restoring her, or giving other cars life through her parts, that would be cool.
If not, I will consider if other people need parts before she goes to the scrap yard