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Bud Tierney

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Everything posted by Bud Tierney

  1. Barry: Many thxx!!...somewhere in one of the old periodicals in one of the engine articles or squibs there'd been a reference to a "Comet" just as an aside: no date, no maker/owner, no location, and I'd never tried to run it down... It appears this was being worked on in the same period as the Buffum, and each has its supporters as the first... As remarkable as it was, I find very little online--a few mentions of it, nothing precisely on it...even the Hall-Scott site just mentions it...
  2. 30D: Sorry, nothing in my Penzing on any motorcycles...to the best of my knowledge, don't recall ever hearing of Beck or Corbitt books...
  3. R32: appreciate the effort, but Standard was at the end of the S's in first list... WK: Touche' again!! I just never seem to remember the Knight engined vehicles; some kind of psychological quirk on my part about sleeve valves... ALSO: will add another myself, found by accident while looking up the Davis Mfg Co V8---BRISCOE, who in 1916 offered choice of Ferro 3x31/2 V8 or a four (verified by Std Cat) which also related that later in 1916 he offered a second smaller four, air cooled, supposedly designed in France but more likely acquired from a French m'f'r... Quite the salesman, Briscoe offered buyers the chance to try the original four, and if dissatisfied to bring it back and they'd put in the V8 for the difference in price and some installation fee...Std Cat wasn't clear if that applied to the air cooled four or not... Again. many thxx to all for interest and effort...
  4. RO: Std Cats Austin--Grand rapids, 1903-20--doesn't list any 8; their last years were with the Weidely V12...nothing else in Std Cat seems to fit, not that it's infallible...any more info re' which Austin??? DAVE: Touche'!..I should've remembered these weren't always GMs and FoMoCo and listed them as mainlines, which I don't follow... Ross was at the end of the R batch, and Parenti I'd added as an OOPS at the end... As usual, sources don't agree: Std Cat V8s has: Ross 1916 "A" with an unidentified 3x41/2=254.4 Ross 1916-17 "C" and 1918 "8" with the Her-Splmn 31/4x5=331.8... Std Cat says first Ross 1915 had the Her-Splmn V8, that in Aug 1917 Co. announced 8 dropped in favor of a Cont'l 6, and in Nov 1917 announced 6 dropped, V8 reinstated, so engine history appears confused (Her-Splmn only had one size V8, to best of my knowledge)... There was a Port Huron built 3x41/2 used in the Regal, per Std Cat V8s, but apparent confusion there, too, as Std Cat lists 1915 8 as 40HP, 1916 as 44HP, dropping to 29HP for 1917 "8", implying serious detuning or a smaller engine...messy!! Many thxx to both for the interest, time and effort. Bud
  5. I'm looking for PRE-1930 orphan AUTO V8 engines and the cars that used them--no mainlines (FoMoCo, GM, Oakland and Viking)...regular production or hoped-for production engines (no special racing engines)...one-offs/one-ofs OK if prototypes/ experiments that were intended to be produced but never got off the ground...I have: Abbott (Abbott-Detroit); Apperson Bailey-Klapp, Briggs-Detroiter, Buffum Cole, Cunningham Daniels, Detroiter, Douglas, Drummond Economy Hewitt, Hollier, Homer Laughlin Jackson King Lafayette, Laughlin Madison, Marion,Monarch, Monitor, Murray Peerles, Pilot Regal, Remington, RiChard, Rock Falls, Ross Scripps-Booth, Sheridan, Standard Vernon Wills St Clair Yale For stock engines I have Buda 3x51/8, Davis 3x4, two Ferro: 3x31/2, 31/4x4, Hershell-Spillman aka Spillman 31/4x5, various pre and post GM Northway and two Perkins (Massnick-Phipps) 23/4x41/2 and 31/8x41/2 Many thxx for any additions/suggestions! OOPS--forgot the Able K-8 if used in anything besides Vernon... OOPS--the Monitor was never produced with the V8; it became the Majestic, which did have the V8... Also the Parenti had an air-cooled V8...
  6. Found the Company's 1915 announcements of the new 1916 V8 8-55---3x51/8, no maker named, matching the Buda---and a 1916 announcement that for 1917 the "larger cars" would be discontinued and production concentrated on the 6-45 models... I would guess Buda wanted cash on delivery and Massnick-Phipps (Perkins) had engines in stock they wanted to move... it's also quite possible Buda simply decided they hadn't found enough orders to set up an assembly line and Pilot suddenly had to fall back on something available to an indeoendent with slowing sales...
  7. Yes, my only catalog that covers a few (very few) of 08-09s and some of the teens is the 1917 Burd ring catalog, and it's set up by ring size--like "41/4 bore with 1/4" rings", then listing engines, cars, trucks, tractors using that size, the only other info being number of rings used. Can be helpful but mostly frustrating--so near (probably? in there) but so far (no way to be certain!!)...only three T-Hs are listed, the largest being the T-H T17 6cyl 41/2 bore using 5 3/16 rings... Interesting about the cast iron "belly pan"...being a city boy I had to be advised by Ag types that while this was used in some Industrial power unit installations, some early tractors had no "frame/chassis" in front for the engine to bolt to...the bolted in engine with the cast "oil pan" became part of the structure of the tractor itself, if I'm explaining that adequately... Had a listing from a tractor ref book from when looking for Ag engine ID-- a Lawton 20-40 (Lawton Tractor Co, Newcasltle IN, moved to St Marys, OH) 1913 or so, using an unidentified Teetor, no b/s, apparently replaced 1914-16 by a Wauk 43/4x61/4, at which time it was de-rated to an 18-38 (and died)... That de-rating would appear to mean the Teetor was larger CID or, at least, a large one...the early tractors with vertical inlines were almost always 4s for the low RPM torque...
  8. For you Interchange enthusiasts: When I was selling off most of my old car paper collection, probabaly 15-20 yrs ago, one item was a Peterson/Petersen? Interchange Manual, size halfway between Sears/Wards catalogs, hardbound and nearly as thick, but fairly heavy paper. I recall looking up some Marmon clutch parts and someting for a Hupp or a Graham; never found another listed on Ebay or autolit... Also still have a curious little Penzing Automotive Book Of Knowledge, PB, 8x101/2, 100 pgs, seems to be heavily into substituting Ford parts (ball/roller bearings. gear clusters, etc) for everything from some ALH to some Willys, etc., with some other odd substitutions thrown in...
  9. (1) Forgot Jim Tremble in Wash State was involved in rebuilding a CT in a Fageol tractor a tear or two ago (oops--Freudian slip??); he could tell you how smooth it was and/or whether they found any timing etc idiosyncrasies on theirs...he posts under his own name on smokstak...hit search, click on his name on any post and an email box will open... (2) per a 38 Victor gasket catalog looks like the 4cyl "C" series runs C, CE, CF, CH, CT, CU, CUWM (marine??) C4 and C4W; only other car listed is Elcar, but these listings are never complete... (3) If you draw a blank on other "C" series car owners you might try aths.org and justoldtrucks; they're 90-95% modern stuff (1950s up) but they're free... (4) Many thxx for oil pump info...good luck.
  10. Sounds like 1916 a bad year---EBay has lots of 1911-15, 1918 and 21 ads, but no 1916...even tried autolit (Walt Miller) out of curiosity. not that I'd be able to afford anything he has!==zero...
  11. If my catalogs are correct that should be a "CE" 3 11/16 bore... (1) Have you tried for other CE owners thru the Gardner club, to see how smooth those engines are when they're right?? (2) If no help, try (a) the Auburn people---the 1926 4-44 used a CF, another 3 11/16 in the Lyc "C" series... ( The oldihc people--IH used the C and the CT in the late 20s early 30s...lots of various Cs in trucks...is there a Stewart club??... (3) If by pulled down you mean apart, I would dearly love to know, if you do have any one of the Cs, if yours has the potmetal don't touch with a ten foot pole oil pump used on the CT...
  12. John Gunnell's Std Cat V8s says 1916 Pilot had a 3x51/8 289.8 V8, which matches up with the Buda DE/DEU... Now I find classiccardatabase lists the 1916 with a Perkins V8 of 31/8x41/2 (actually says "4", but HP/CID matches the 41/2) 245.44 CID... I understand none of the Pilot V8s are left (did they actually get into production and/or sold??)... I will check for ads on Googlebooks, but hoped some factory info might be available... I haven't found ANY installations of the Buda V8, but haven't searched exhaustively... Automobile Journal 2-15-1916 issue, with specs of 1916 cars, agrees with 3x51/8, altho left engine maker blank...
  13. BEN: (1) Welcome to the quagmire---I first assumed, looking at engine stuff, that Teeter and Teetor were misspellings...later Kent posted about a legal? name change (maybe too many jokes about teeter-totter engines?.. There's a railway bicycle inspection "car" ad headed "Hartley Teeter", or maybe Hartley & Teeter? (with illus of two-seat and one seat "cars") at the bottom of which is Teeter-Hartley Motor Co...or was it Light Insp etc? Anyway, it's a mess...and then there's poor Hartley/Hardly etc...apparently in RR lingo anything that runs on rails is a "car"... (2) does your 4x6 have a tag, and if so, would you advise what's on it---I'm trying to reconcile existing engines with the lettering system listed in parts catalogs... KENT: does your H tag have bore/stroke?? Should be 31/8xsomething (I believe the gasket catalogs 3x5 is incorrect, as other ref's are 31/8)...
  14. I have a ref (danteblog?) saying T-Hs gas,gasoline and air comp line sold to Standard Company, Richmond, in 1908... In that context "gas" would be "gaseous" fuels, a desc ranging from NG to sewer gas... "Standard Company" would probably be Standard Pattern & M'f'g Co, Richmond, IN, which per Iron Age 4-29-09, p1372, had moved and was expanding its plant "Gasoline engines and air compressors will be added to the line"...don't follow farm type engines so didn't verify... KENT: Have you contacted Mike Shaffer, Knightstown, IN, who posted on smokstak he had an air cooled 1Cyl Light Insp Car co engine and compressor??
  15. Kent: lost in all these T-H threads, but since all roads lead to Rome...trying to rebuild engine list to ID sources...slow... (1) on 2011 engine list posting find differences: 32 catalog shows AA as 33/4 H, H18, H19, 19H as 31/8...original emails lost in meltdown, probably my mistake... (2) conceptcars Am'cn U'slng has 1910 Traveler with 4Cyl 53/8x55/8 50Hp T-H...closely matches my list, but not original source as has no "only numbered "T" comment... (3) re' the story of the restorer restoring three Americans in return for one to keep, were those engines ever ID'd as to model, b/s??? (4) a 1930 wrist pin catalog lists a "19T" (McFarlan) in the engine list section; under McF it lists a "19", 1918-21 with 6cyl 41/2 "own" engine...all specs listed match EXC eng list and make list are off 1/16 length...But eng list has three Teetors, and specs in engine list and make list are ALL off by 1/16 (???!!!) (5) anything on the Teetors in the first Lawter tractors, or the "20 foot boat with 40HP Teetor" in the 1915 Hegerstown paper?? (search oldmarineengine=zero)... Will be digging more...
  16. (1) If I recall correctly, there's another piece of that War Dept claim in which T-H claims they were unable to perform only because, under the Wisc-T-H subcontract/agmt Wisc was to provide certain jigs (and patterns?), and that Wisc negligently or deliberately failed to provide them...this would appear to mean T-H never got into production. (2) Std Cat shows a Mercury, built in (if actually built) Belfast, NY., 1922, announced with a 4 and a 6, that apparently died that same year... There's also a Mercury industrial tractor, a smaller rubber tired unit if, again, I recall correctly, but don't know when it was produced, altho it'd hardly be in an automobile list... (3) the low production of the original engines may've been the basis for the "handbuilt engine line" comment... (4) I've assumed some of the comments re' providing engines for Chev, Packard etc could be confusions between actual T-H engines and their piston ring production... (4) XP, would you advise what is on you 6cyl's tag?? It looks like (on my set) "II", but I assume it's actually "TT", for which I have 41/2x6...
  17. Searched alfowners, did find I made a 2011 query, and did get a reply from a knowledgeable member that ALF used own engines (not a specific direct answer but obviously to the best of his knowledge).
  18. AArrrrgh!! Another senior moment!!! Yes, of course, Coker Tire's fire truck engine...from memory: Coker Tire was rebuilding the Marmon Wasp racer, which originally had a unique Marmon built t-head, long gone... Per their rebuilding website (profusely illus with pix of car and engine work, the last time I was in it) the closest engine they could find was in an old fire truck (one small pic then on site?), reportedly or supposedly an ALF Cosmopolitan model... Someone somewhere commented the engine looked like a T-H... Cokers computer had mine down as a spammer, blocked out; I would ordinarily've queried alfowners and spaamfaa, but if I did I don't recall any replies... I either moved on, or had a computer meltdown, losing everything, and when back online never got back to it... With the rebuilding extensively documented, Coker would have info re' the engine, and, if a T-H, the fire truck it came out of... Postings should come up Googling Coker-Marmon Wasp-Teetor Hartley Note: some stuff did come up under Teeter-Hartly; didn't run Mroz's Teeter-Hardly...
  19. Greg: Well, they came close to the truck business---I ran across a 5-4-1918 squib re' a 31/2 Ton McFarlan truck, to be built by T-H with a T-H 6cyl, but Mroz (US Trk/Comm'l Veh Ency) says "...does not appear...made it past prototype stage..."... Interesting question as to how long T-H stayed in production of T-H tagged engines...(engine business sale referred to as in 1918)... Squib 1-1-20: T-H purchased 40K in machine tools in 1919... 7-1919: Incptn Ansteds US Aut/m'tve Corp (holding co with T-H et al as subsidiaries) with announcement 10-9-20 (10-4-20 stock offering) including that all sub's to retain corporate identities and to function as prior to consolidation... hearse.com piece on 1920 Luverne hearse "with T-H motor".. 3-1-21 article, Lexington full production, plant 75% capacity (one shift), with both Ansted Eng'grg and T-H Mtr Cptn plant 100% capacity producing new Ansted motor... 8-1921 10 page article: paean to Ansted/Lexington/USAC., incl desc, specs, pix of new Ansted motor for Lexingtons..
  20. Might be helpful to know what it came off of or what you need it to go on...
  21. My Buda V8/Pilot?? thread turned into a T-H thread, so decided to start a new one under the correct name... I found a T-H file, apparently from 2007 when some then T-H posts piqued my fickle curiosity; included was a quite confused engine list... Unfortunately. in those years I seldom listed what websites said what, so I have a list of 25 or so engines/engine variations, many with b/s and many with conflicting b/s and/or question marks, obviously from differing online sources as none of my old catalogs has full b/s for any T-H engine (I have 5--count 'em, five--b/s combinations for the "T")... Bores on my list range from 3" to 41/2, except for a 4 Cyl referred to as the "only numbered "T"", a 53/8x51/2...since I have T17, T18, T19 on my list, that ID was either a mistake or an early "T"... Does anyone have, or know of, a definitive or reliable engine b/s list? I also found a note to search TEETER, but no page mentioning it; maybe something will turn up there... EXPLOR: On my machine, your tag looks like "II"; I assume it's actually "TT"?? If so, or whatever it is, I show 41/2x6, with a question ma4k, for the "TT"... Any comments appreciated...Many thxx!! Bud
  22. SCM: Just noticed your post...FWIW, have a bare-bones little Shurhit catalog: AS RB mentioned, 652D listed for 30-32 8 cyl Marmon (no model # listed), but it's listed WITH 658C, which, in turn, is also listed for the T68, N, N78 28-32 8 cyl 28-29 models...(those 28-29 models and also listed WITH 658M, 651A and D)...the catalog doesn't state whether options, production changes, single or dual ign. etc... That catalog lists 668E for 29-31 Pierce 8 and 660P for 32 Pierce 8 (no model #s listed)... Parts catalogs don't always agree... Do you know why the marine engines had different dist's from the auto versions?? I have no idea if any of those interchangeable if the correct shaft and drive installed and/or if marine use dist's different from general auto... If you haven't already, you might query Jason at Advanced Elec Rebuilders (aerrebuild.com) for possible help...with sympathy, Bud
  23. I spoke too soon on "...no Buda 8 before 1930..."...upon review of 1917 ring catalog do find I'd missed the Buda DE, DEU 8 cyl, which a 1916 Horseless Carriage squib IDs as the V8... That 1917 catalog listing is the only one for any Buda 8 in my handful of 1930 and prior parts catalogs... Buda used that terminology repeatedly, (DE, DEU); I've not found anything specifically on the point, but most often mentioned opinion is that meant open or enclosed flywheels, but not which was which......
  24. VC: Many thxx for quick reply... Yes, quite true, except for one model in 1916... Std Cat US Cars shows one 8 cyl model 8-55, 55HP, in 1916, as related in the text thumbnail therein that the V8 only lasted that year...that much, at least, matches the one 1916 Pilot V8 in Gunnells Std Cat US V8s...but neither disclosed the m'f'r of the V8... The few of my engine parts catalogs that list Pilot agree they used Teetors approx 1916 to 20/21 with Hershell-Spillmans from 20/21 to dissolution, all 4s or 6s (altho a Rutenber 6 shows up, supposedly 1917-21 in the 6-45, perhaps an option)... I'm personally inclined to think the Buda V8 just didn't sell or wasn't enthusiastically pushed, and may've been allowed a quiet demise... Buda's were, for some reason, big in taxicabs; seems like there's a taxi site or group I can try...
  25. Various early 1915 trade magazines carried the 1915 introduction of the Buda V8 3x51/8... John Gunnells Std Cat V8s lists the 1916 Pilot as having a 3x51/8 V8, an unusual b/s... There isn't enough desc in the Std Cat to really compare with original announcements, altho the Pilot was water pumped while the original Buda was TS... Std Cat US Cars says most Pilot engines were Teetors... Did Teetor build a V8?? I've not made up a Teetor list as very few listings...or was this possibly the Buda with a water pump added?? Any illumination appreciated!! Many thxx!! Bud
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