1925 Gray

I've got one of the above with three trumpets, care instructions, wiring diagram, etc. But, how do I tell if it is a Bugle and a Chime or just a Bugle? It has three terminals. Thanks

Thanks, Dave. I didn't see it but friends of mine did and took pics for me.

Any Gray owners or does any one know of any Gray owners? I've got a 1925 I'm restoring and could always use some help-advise and, of course, parts. Thanks.

60FlatTop; Acronym explation: MM = Motor Muster OCF = Old Car Festival GFV = Greenfield Village THF = The Henry Ford LTD = Lansing to Dearborn Run Did I cover all of them? Hope that helps.

Thanks for the response, Linc400. Below is sort of a progress report on both events which I posted on another forum. It's kinda long but worth the read. I'm still curious as to how many people will be bringing cars to either event this year. A couple of friends of mine met with John Neilson and, in a nutshell, the outlook is not good. I don't want to beat a dead horse but I thought I would share with you what I know. Before I go into some detail, let me cut to the bottom line: they were left with the impression that THF doesn't care about either MM, OCF or, the participants. (I'll try to put conversation notes in narrative form, so bear with me.) MM and OCF, according to Neilson, do not make money. THF makes more money on weddings on the weekends and the shows interfere with that, (My side note: For past participants or visitors to the shows, you may have noticed some weddings taking place during either show.) Neilson said they may be looking to combine MM and OCF into one show (My note: thus, freeing up a weekend. But, if they are having problems with the number of cars and trailers at two shows, what makes them think one big show is going to be easier? This also, I speculate, would severely limit the number of cars if the show takes in vehicles 1976 and older.) Lansing to Dearborn: It was started as a way to publicize OCF. Although my understanding is at first LTD was excluded from OCF, Neilson said they are welcome, just not their trailers. LTD offered to solve the trailer issue for THF (essentially doing THF's work) if they could could get a price break from the $50 registration fee. Neilson, apparently, pretty much said "no", that if they do it for LTD, THF would have to do it for others. Consequently, LTD is doing their own meet and tour and will NOT be going to OCF. Neilson: THF does not want to be known as an old car museum. They want to be known as an innovation organization (My note: it is my understanding that the name "Henry Ford" will be dropped from the name of the institution.) Neilson wants participants to dress in period costume and stay with their cars and "narrate" them. (My note: this may be why the Pass In Review, in my opinion, a key part of both events, is 50% by invitation and 50% lottery.) He wants more "engagement" and is looking for ways to pull in more young people, not car people, through the gate. Neilson said most visitors are participants or their friends, and that hurts the gate. When asked how he wants to draw in more young an non-car people, Neilson said he has no idea. As for the $50. non-refundable fee, Neilson said that when they initiated the a $25 fee, participant attendance fell, but then rose. Neilson anticipates the same thing will happen with the new fee. He said that if people were really "hung up" on the new fee, maybe something can be worked out. Now, on to what I know apart from the above meeting. It is my understanding, that very few, if any, past or new participants from Ohio will be going to either MM or OCF. LTD, as mentioned, will not be going and is creating it's own event. There are some folks who are talking to Gilmore about creating a sort of OCF at that location and Gilmore, apparently is VERY interested. It won't be this year, but, perhaps next year. Letters have been or will be sent from various clubs, both single and multi-make clubs, to Neilson and others at THF regarding the changes. I attended an old car meeting the other night where and lot of members had previously attended the OCF and it was asked, who will be going to the OCF this year. Two people raised their hands. It appears there is a general "boycott" of the events. This is something I sincerely hoped would not happen. I really wanted a meeting of the minds between participants and THF regarding both events so as to keep the events basically unchanged. This may sound over-dramatic, but the entire situation makes my heart bleed. Those of you who have been going to both or one of the events, will understand this. I have offered my services to those trying to "replace" OCF with Gilmore to organize and, although I retired from narrating, and as a narrator, should they do a Pass-in-Review. Sorry for being long-winded, but I thought you should know. Sigh.

A lot has happened since this topic was posted and I'm curious as to haw many people who have gone to either event still plan on going. There are a lot of people who either have gone in the past or who had planned on going that are not going now because of all the changes. There is talk of holding a similar event in 2018 at either Frankenmuth, MI. or at Crossroads village (very similar to Greenfield Village) in Flint.

Gary, although I agree with you, hoping won't make it. Collectors have got to take ACTION if we are going to get anywhere. My chapter is in the process of drafting a letter for all interested members to sign and send. Others need to do the same.

Gary, thanks for the response. I sure do hope that at least the local chapter(s) of the AACA get together and write a letter for all concerned to sign.

Just curious, has your club or chapter written letters with group signatures? Has anyone sent an individual letter? If so, is it something you'd care to share here? I sure would like to know if my suggestion was taken to heart. Thanks.

Scott, you're welcome. I really, really tried to do better but....... Anyway, here's the latest MTFCA thread: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/708324/720291.html?1485907254

I'm such a dope. I thought I posted this last evening but I must have written it and then didn't hit post. Sorry. Based on my conversations, it is clear that you should write constructive letters about your concerns staying positive and polite. This is probably the best bet for getting our voice heard. Outline specific concerns and perhaps suggestions on how to address our concerns would be best. I am URGING, that letters be written. But, if at all possible, NOT INDIVIDUAL LETTERS unless you are not affiliated with a club, then an individual letter would be necessary. It was agreed, that answers to the questions should come from the organizations. THF may use it’s website to address the concerns and questions. The mailing address is: The Henry Ford Program Production Registration Office P.O. Box 1970 Dearborn, MI 48121 The email address is: participantinfo@thehenryford.org I hope this helps us, the shows and, THF.

FYI: I spoke with Sarah Gaynier at The Henry Ford on Thursday and we had a nice talk regarding the changes. They are aware that people are upset about the changes, but I got the sense that they are not aware of the depth of how people are upset, nor what appears to be a partial exodus from the events. I am waiting for a response on one more item from her and, hopefully, will have more information on Monday. I will post something then.

I have been asked go post the site for the MTCFA forum discussing the MM and OCF changes. There are three threads starting with this one and then going in order. I warn you that they are long but, depending on your interest, well worth the read. http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/708324/711471.html?1484770978 http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/708324/715450.html?1485195296 http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/708324/717141.html?1485321205

Gary, I didn't take it that way. No worries. As I understand it, the Lansing to Dearborn run is no longer a part of the Old Car festival.

Gary Van, no I did not see this coming prior to my stepping down as consultant and narrator. I stepped down because narrating for 35 years -- more than half of the OCFs and wanting to spend more time during the event with my family and friends , I thought it was time. Part of me is glad that I was not part of this debacle. Another part of me wishes that I stayed so maybe participants would have a voice in the matter. Also, the changes are not aimed at the Ford owners. Although there has been talk for couple of years now of limiting the number of Model Ts and As. Even though I stepped down, the prior Special Events management asked if I would put a small committee together to discuss that possibility and how to do it fairly. That went by the wayside when the prior team moved on. And, Gary, thanks for the kind words. I'll miss the narration but with grandkids now, well, you know. Stude light, I don't think it's about the tone of the letter. I think it's about the perceived greediness and what these changes will do to what was a unique event. I think it signals many more major changes in the future. The OCF was never meant to be a concours but it looks like it is headed that way. It was, in fact, started by Barney Pollard and was run by volunteers from the local VMCCA and AACA chapter members. The Village simply provided the venue. The Festival was meant to be just that: a Festival of cars for the core of owners to enjoy. It was meant for the owners of Dodge Brothers, Chevys, Plymouths, etc. to meet and have fun: a Festival. I just hope it doesn't turn into an elitist event.

Gentleman, first let me introduce myself. My name is Marty Bufalini. Up until last year when I resigned of my own decision, I was a consultant to The Henry Ford for both the Motor Muster and the Old Car Festival. I started the Motor Muster and narrated that event since its inception and narrated the OCF for 35 years. If I may address some of the issues regarding the events. The space limitations are regarding the trailers, motor homes and, campers participants bring to the events -- not necessarily the cars within the Village for the shows. Admittedly, they have lost most, if not all, of their space outside the Village property and parking for those vehicles is a problem. However, I am sure there are other ways to solve that issue other than making these drastic changes. For the cars displayed within the Village, there is ample room and the grounds, in my opinion, are under utilized. For example, for those of you familiar with the Village, the space between the Martha Mary Chapel and the Town Hall is nearly empty during the shows. Based on my experience, I can see no reason to be INVITED to go through the Pass-in-Review, a unique highlight of the events and very popular with the visitors and the participants. Fifty percent of participants will be invited, the other fifty percent, apparently, is open. As a long-time narrator, I have rarely seen a problem with time constraints. Yes, sometimes a narrator gets too long winded but that time is usually made up. As for what can the narrators say after the 30th Model A (or Model T, for that matter) pass through, when I was narrating, we would group a bunch of like makes together and talk about them. This not only sped up the process, but it also made for one heck of a spectacle to see so many of the same makes at the same time in the same place. We would also group unlike cars together -- a steamer with an electric with a gasoline car, a Model T and a Pierce Arrow of the same year -- to educate about the differences. Limiting the Pass-in-Review makes no sense whatsoever. The $50 non-refundable fee also makes no sense. Where does that money go if I am not accepted? Can it really be to cover the cost to THF of simply registering? And if I am accepted, does it really cost them that much for the plaque, a cardboard ID card and two wristbands? Yes, I know it takes a large staff to put this event on long before and during the events. However, both events draw larger than normal crowds of visitors who pay at the gate AND pay to park. And then consider all the money those visitors pay for rides, souvenirs and, food. Twenty dollars per extra wristbands? What if you have a family of four or six? It gets prohibitively expensive. It seems to me the core of participants are hard-working folk who may not be able to afford that. Without the participants, there would be no show. (Is that their intent?) There was a time not so long ago, when a different management attempted to make changes to OCF (MM did not exist then) and the participant rate dropped to 200 - 250 cars. It was not much of a Festival. Since then, a Special Events team was in place which worked very hard to bring those numbers back up. They succeeded beyond their wildest dreams. With 700 plus cars on display and driving around the Village it became a Festival again. I know there will be those that will pay the fees and still attend (I probably will be one of them) but I believe those in charge who made the changes should be made known of owners concerns. I am by no means suggesting a boycott. On the MTFCA forum, I've suggested creating a petition to request a meeting with those in charge to at least let our feelings be known and to gain a better understanding of why these drastic -- and possibly event killing -- changes are being made. I would be interested to know if anyone else is interested in such a petition. Thanks for your time.

Al, thanks. I checked the website and private golf carts are allowed IF they are registered as legitimately handicapped by showing your handicap information at the scooter rental area or an AACA tent. I guess that answers your questions, too, Restorer32 and West. But, now, the question is -- and hopefully someone can answer this -- once in Hershey, can you locally rent a golf cart from some local company and, if so, does anyone know what the company or companies are? Any information would be helpful. Thanks.

How does one go about getting a golf cart in Hershey to use at Hershey? Transporting one from home is not practical. Does anyone rent them there, and, if so how does this work? Do they bring it to you? Do you have to pick it up? I have a legitimate handicap card. Unfortunately, conditions have progressed where I really need one this year. Any light you can shed on this to help me out would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

Jon and all, Thanks for the response. Sorry I didn't get to you sooner but been busy. I was afraid that this would be the outcome. I do plan to drive and tour with the car so, I guess I probably should look into the Stromberg M-1. I did a Google search to try and at least find a picture of what you suggested, Jon, so I would know what I'm looking for but a couple of different M-1s showed up. Could you or someone post a picture here of what I need? I did look at your website and couldn't find it. Anyway, interesting story,as I was looking for the Scoe's and asking around about them I was told by several sources I would never find one. Well, one day at Hershey a couple of years ago, I found all three within a few yards of each other at three different venders and with a space of about a half an hour!! And, I the most I paid for one was$15!!! But a lot of good it did me, eh? Thanks for the help and I look forward to seeing pictures of what I need.

Thanks! Got it and am in contact with him.

Thanks. I'll see if I can find him.

Friartuck, how do I find the Carbking?

I did not know that. Interesting and thanks.

I know it says Montgomery Ward, but the Gray came out of the factory with a Scoe. Again, would a J.B. Weld seal those small chips on the first carb? How do you clean pot metal? I don't want to put any chemical to it that will ruin it and thanks again for all the help and suggestions.

Now, if I did this right again, these are instructions for the Scoe I found on the web.