mechanician

16hp. Considering 1 and 2 cyl cars that are "frequently" encountered, more desirable than a Brush or small 2-cyl Maxwell, less desirable than a 1 cyl Cadillac or model F/G Buick. The Buick is arguably the strongest runner of those I listed, including the REO, all else equal.

I agree. Brass may have a better long-term future than later eras. Traditional "car guys" seem fewer in the under 30 crowd (but are still present), but brass cars seem to have an appeal beyond the typical gear head (ie. the "maker" enthusiasts, and renewed interest in traditional crafts etc which seem much more prevalent in that same generation than in the generations immediately before them). It takes a different skill set and interest to keep brass cars, especially compared to post-war. Perhaps I am more optimistic because I like brass. Once you get past the idea of having zero parts support, you realize that you don't actually need any parts support for a brass car.

There are two parts to your question, the life/financial advice and market prognostication about which I am unqualified to comment; and the present merits of individual cars about which I can. I agree with your assessment that is a nice REO. It does appear to have nice original upholstery, which is a huge plus. I would take good original over great restoration any day of the week. I however, disagree with the overall assessment of that car as "unrestored." Both the body and chassis appear to have received repaints (and probably more), and the top has been replaced (all likely '50-'60s era?). I have seen cars that were "restored" at that time where the car is mechanically unrestored (or worse, poorly restored). I own one such car, I needed to mechanically restore the whole car. In my case, I had other reasons for my interest in that specific car so it was worth the trouble, at least for me. For a commonly seen car like a REO, mechanically restoring an old refurbishment means encountering the worst aspects of a restored and unrestored car. Perhaps the originality of the upholstery is enough to offset this, and I certainly understand if it is, as such cars are tough to find. Back to the mechanicals. A car that must be towed to start is not a running car. I can't say what could be wrong, but if it really needed to be towed, it is more than simple adjustments. Perhaps something was done incorrectly in the reassembly, more likely it is extremely tired and worn. The engine will almost certainly need to come out. In a 50-60s refurbishment, you almost certainly will find something wrong (in addition to whatever is making it so difficult to start). If you can do this work, and enjoy doing this work then it is a great project. If you can not, or do not want to, then you are writing checks. Those checks will almost certainly sum to at least the 23k cost of getting into the car. Then there's the question of the chassis... One could easily be >70k into a car with a '50s repaint. Again, if you like doing this yourself (and I do too) then its hours of enjoyment, and you should go for it. If not, try to find something ready to go (but ask questions and do your homework, I have seen plenty of un-sorted and even worn out "fresh" restorations). My assessments are only my opinions and made without standing next to the car. Do what makes you happy, if the car doesn't make you happy today, don't buy it. There will be one that does, and if there isn't, then there's golf or stamp collecting...

I would value the REO based on comparable sales. Results from the large auction houses are well publicized. While they present an incomplete record, and auctions can skew high or low on any given day and for many reasons, they at least put you in the ballpark. REOs sell often enough in public sales that we can come to some conclusion. For cars that don't turn over as much, it can be harder, but the idea is still to look for comparables, it is open to more interpretation about what comparable means. Here are two data points for the REO. I suspect you could find more, this was a very quick search: https://cars.bonhams.com/auction/28770/lot/506/1907-reo-1620hp-twin-cylinder-touring-car-chassis-no-8745/ https://cars.bonhams.com/auction/28770/lot/522/1906-reo-16hp-model-a-five-passenger-car-chassis-no-2911-engine-no-2911/ In both cases, I don't think the car from today could be brought up to the condition of these two for the difference in price. In that sense these cars might be better deals. Alternatively today's car might be tour-ready for a little less than these all-in, albeit at a bit lower condition. I would therefore evaluate it as a fair price but certainly not a "deal" price.

That's understandably going to be a hard sell. However well it is presented it is a highly modified car that still has the reputation of it's name. Cartercar enthusiasts or brass curiosity seekers will miss the opportunity to experience it with its most prominent feature, and to those who would never have a Cartercar, it still is. It's like buying a Stanley with a model T drivetrain. The REO sounds like it may have sold about right (depending on the exact nature of what's left to do). It doesn't sound like a bargain but perhaps a fair price.

Thanks for all of the suggestions. I would like to get it clean before fluxing, as if the flux is insufficient (as I think it likely will be on my green parts) then I will need to de-solder and clean everything again just to get back to where I was. Sounds like that flux would work great during the soldering that will come after cleaning. The muriatic acid may on the right track as a cleaning agent. That one is easy enough to get and try on some test pieces. When old timers boiled radiators in caustic soda, I think that was followed by muriatic acid, the acid being for solder preparation. Ed- that is exactly what I am looking to do, and the solder joints on your floats seem to have stayed bright, unlike some of the carb cleaners I have seen which blacken solder. Are you using it "off label" I thought optical brighteners were basically dyes?

Thanks for the suggestion, unfortunately the oxidation to be removed is beyond what flux can do (I already removed flux residue from a previous failed repair). Even with a wire brush, it takes some effort to get the olive patina of the surface clean enough for solder.

I have a delicate soldering job on thin brass, including some irregular areas. Everywhere that can get mechanical cleaning is getting scrubbed and shined. There are a few spots that are inaccessible and delicate. I would like to clean these areas so that they will tin. I am probably being obsessive, but I only want to do this job once. Does anyone have suggestions on metal brighteners, tarnish removers or other chemical cocktails that might help? I have used Flitz tarnish remover on other projects. It works, but I suspect there may be something better for this application. The Flitz tarnish remover seems to tarnish lead solder while cleaning brass, and there is old solder still doing its job in the vicinity of what I am looking to clean. Suggestions appreciated. This is NOT meant to be a discussion of chemical vs mechanical cleaning nor is it an attempt to save elbow grease, I have no other way to get the part as clean as I would like it to be in the tight spots...

I would be interested in a whole Cameron, should one turn up…I passed on one many years ago and wish that I hadn’t. Very small but interesting machines.

I got the sense he was looking for big fish stories… There were some whales, but long ago.

If there were no other issues, I would put it back together and run it. The likelihood of having three separate, otherwise asymptomatic leaks in two separate monolithic jugs is almost zero. If you chase a problem that isn't there, you will find it.

And a Pierce 66 has over a hundred cubic inches more than the Olds...

From an operational perspective, I would bet that Ed's Buick is in far better "health" than 90+% of the show cars, restored or not, on any concourse show field...

If the mag terminals are fire in order 1234 as it appears that they do, and the engine fires 1-3-4-2 as Dave suggests it may, then to get 1-3-4-2 the plug wires would be connected to mag 1 to cyl 1, cyl 2 fires last so mag 4, cyl 3 fires second so mag 2 and cyl 4 fires 3rd so mag 3. This would give an “apparent” 1423 on the mag terminals as you note.

The indicator on the mag tells you which terminal on the mag is firing at a given shaft position, which may or may not correspond to the cylinder number.

Back to the original question of etiquette, to me it all comes down to whoever initiated the request. If the manufacturer approached the lender, or solicited that they were looking for x part to reproduce, then the proper etiquette would be to supply the lender one of the finished parts, or in more involved cases compensation by prior agreement. On the other hand, if the lender approached the manufacturer proposing a future product offering as a carrot to encourage him to take the job, the lender should be willing to pay a fair price with no special discount and be happy to have received a necessary part at a fair price.

To add to Dave's post, be careful if you turn it over, be sure to have plugs grounded as he mentions. Mea magnetos (like others) have a safety gap that allows the magneto to release the electric "pressure" if spun over ungrounded without a ground path through the plugs. That said, if you spin it over without a ground path and the safety gap is broken or badly mis-adjusted, the spark can occur across the windings which will damage them. You may want to consider purchasing a rebuilt Bosch mag from Mark (much more common) at least until you get the rest of the project sorted (or if you plan to drive it a lot once sorted). The Mea is a great conversation piece and an interesting high quality design but perhaps not a "beginner's mag" or one for extended use...

There is nothing new under the sun...

They are probably flare fittings, rather than compression. May even be solder-on ends, a type of union more or less. Anyway, I have both types still holding after more than a century. Keep them clean and they should still seal if they aren't physically damaged. Don't seal the threads as the fittings don't seal on the threads, they seal on the conical surfaces. I would lightly clean the mating cones with fine scotchbrite and wipe or blow them clean.

In theory there is no difference between theory and practice, in practice there is...

Since the max torque goes as D^4\D the relationship still goes as D^3 (D being the outside diameter). A tube is never stronger than a solid shaft of the same OD and material, however a tube will be stronger for a given weight, the strength contributions from the core being small (due to r^3 dependence). You could make a really thin wall tube that is too weak; this could also fail by buckling.

Torsion strength of a rod goes as the radius cubed, so doubling the radius would provide an 8x increase in torque capacity, all else equal. Twist of the rod is determined by its elastic modulus. Tool steel and plain carbon have virtually the same modulus, so no difference in twist for a given torque load, although the tool steel will have higher strength, so it will twist further (at a higher torque) before it breaks... Pipe of any type (ie. for fluid) seems to be a non-ideal material for this application. Presumably there is an arm or pinion on the end of the shaft which should be keyed on, or possibly pinned. 3/8 or 5/16 just doesn't leave much to accomplish this even if the rod can carry sufficient torque. Are you sure that the whole column didn't turn? Either way, it can be made to work as well as it ever did, which is to ask if you know if it ever really ran well. Many early blacksmith made vehicles didn't work out so well, and in that case static display would be period correct functionality. Either way, that is part of the story of the early days, sometimes it just didn't work, and from a historical perspective that too can be worth preserving.

I think that comparison is an insult to fig Newtons!

Lead 70/30 Pb/Sn

I agree. The two places were I see that 3D is useful is if you don’t have a sample of the part to begin with (ie. Reconstructing from photos etc) and also where there are geometries that can not be made by any other process. The latter doesn’t matter for restorations since by definition the part being restored had to have been originally made by another process. For certain applications in things like nozzles, acoustics, etc it does enable designs that are not otherwise feasible. It may not even be the wave of the future, it is a slow, energy intensive process and probably always will be…