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JV Puleo

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Everything posted by JV Puleo

  1. The people who bought expensive cars like the White were every bit as fashion conscious as they are today. I suspect that Ed's original assessment, that it was relegated to someone's summer place in upstate New York is spot on. It rapidly became too old to be seen in the city...driving an older car would imply that the owner was either hopelessly eccentric or in financial difficulty. But, those folks often had no need for the small amount of money an old car might fetch and had places to keep it so they just sat...largely unused for decades. Years ago I heard a story about a Napier, perhaps about 1908, in Argentina. It belonged to a very wealthy family who were sentimentally attached to it and kept clean and polished (or their chauffeur did) until the 1970s when they suffered some reverses and sold it to an American collector. There were ramifications to that I won't go in to but it was felt that the American, by dickering over the price, had humiliated the family and this was not well received by their friends. I knew a fantastic 4-cylinder Locomobile that was ordered in 08 or 09 with the body coming from a NY coach builder. The purchaser died before the body could be attached to the chassis and the two pieces, still new, remained in the carriage house until James Melton bought them in the 1950s. Back in the 50s or the early 60s there was a '21 or '22 RR Silver Ghost that was both new and had never had a body fitted for a similar reason. It was bandied about that the original warranty (something like 5 years or 25,000 miles) was still in effect. These things happened, not often but often enough so that the early collectors like Melton, Winthrop Rockefeller, George Waterman and Austin Clark searched high and low for them. It was a big help that they belonged to the social set the original owners or their children did.
  2. I noticed that my cousin Gail thinks I'm a bit daft for even wanting them but she probably though that to begin with. I called my nephew to tell him I was giving him all of his Great Uncle's fishing gear and took the opportunity to enlist him n the moving project.
  3. I'd missed yesterday's post and just read it tonight and I was going to reply something to the effect "whatever the problem is, it's probably so insanely simple that you'll be saying 'how could I have missed that?'" It happens to me all the time...especially when the problem comes up at the end of the day. Usually the solution is obvious, but not until the next morning.
  4. My 1910 Mitchell is a good example of how the revs were limited. In fact, it appears that very little balancing of parts was done even though the value of this was well known at the time. Rather than do that they simply limited the revs by using a small carburetor and restricting the intake manifold. The intake ports are about 1-5/8" in diameter but the original tube connecting the intake to the carb is barely more than an inch. My assessment of the original manufacturing standards is that if allowed to rev to even 1500 rpm for more than a second or two it would have shaken apart. As part of my rebuilding, I've changed this - it's one of the reasons I made a new intake manifold. I've calculated that, at 2,000 rpm the car will be going 63 MPH. I've no intention of going that fast but I would like to get it to the point where it can hold 40-45MPH more or less indefinitely and do 55 in a pinch. A few times in the past I've found myself in a situation where I had no choice but to go on a highway, usually because there is a bridge to cross and no alternative route. To do this I'll have a balanced crank, rods, and pistons with pressure lubrication to the mains and camshaft. The stroke is not overly long for the diameter of the piston (4.25 bore/5" stroke) so with the added value of the pressure lubrication I think it will handle it. When the time comes to test it, I've no intention of pushing it as far as it will go but, not being an engineer, all these calculations are empirical. The aluminum pistons are already half the weight of the iron pistons and I'm no where near finished machining them. Much the same for the rods I'll be making. I've no intention of making a racing car but it would be nice if it could get out of its own way when needed.
  5. As if I didn't have enough to do, I've been helping two of my cousins clean up the family home so it can be sold. Until recently their brother was living there but he died unexpectedly a few weeks ago. In walking around the property, a place I've know literally all my life, we came to the barn - actually a boat house - that collapsed in a hurricane about ten years ago. Sticking out of the rubble were some handlebars. My cousin George and I both had Nortons about 40 years ago...at one time or another he also had a Triumph and an Indian. I'd presumed they were long gone but George was one of those people who hardly ever dispose of anything and the bikes were still there in the ruins of the boat house. This is the Indian. The Triumph... And the Norton They gave them to me...I'm not sure what I'll do with them. I will probably restore the Norton as George had been planning to do. His brother tells me there is a pile of NOS parts for it in the cellar. Getting them out of there is going to be a challenge. I've started shifting the rubble but I think I'll enlist one of my nephews to give me a hand. The materials for Ed's water pump shaft arrived yesterday as I was leaving so I'll get on to that tomorrow if I'm not in North Kingstown moving rotten timbers.
  6. Here's the page with the engine with most of the distortion removed. It isn't the greatest job. I could do better if I had a lot more resolution to work with. Ed...is that a DU4? If so, isn't it a bit small for that engine or does that make any difference? I'm thinking of the Bosch advertisements that designate what mags are appropriate for different displacements. I'd think an engine that size should take a D4. I know it isn't what they originally used but will the mag size have any effect on the way it runs?
  7. That's a good tip. I'm at loose ends for the moment. None of the material I need for Ed's water pump shaft has come in and I ordered more to make the spring shackles. The next job on the Mitchell is the bearings but that will be demanding and I need to really focus on it. At the moment, I have a lot of other stuff going on so I'm trying to do simple things I've put off before attacking the bearing job. Today I started on a die holder. The technique of single-pointing threads about 3/4 of the way and finishing them with a die worked so well making the shackle bolts that want to make a die holder because the set I have only goes to 1-1/2". This will be useless for cutting coarse threads to their full depth but the die holder I have isn't much good for that either. Dies for some of the really archaic sizes can be found but they are often intended for use in a big die stock. So, I decided to try making a 2" holder. These are the two pieces roughed out. I'd have made it in one piece if I had the right piece of bar. With any luck, tomorrow I'll post some photos of my "barn find"...
  8. Re Chrome... Yes, I have. It won't load on my computer as the operating system is too old. I should add that I use that computer for my book design and editing work with InDesign. It's the last InDesign version that is not an internet subscription service. It works just fine for my work but there is a limit to the operating system I can use. Even if I buy another computer I cannot go more than a generation or two past the present one in the operating system or I'm out of business. Upgrading to the current system is a lot more complicated and expensive than buying another computer and I don't make enough on my design work to justify the expense of signing up for the latest version of InDesign. I'd be working for Adobe...
  9. I'm having similar, but different issues. All the computers I use are Macs...this site no longer works with the old version of Safari I have, It does work with Firefox but who knows how long that will last. I can't upgrade either because I am at the limit of what can be done with this computer. Like Frank, as much as I enjoy this site I am not going to buy a new computer to access it. I belong to four or five web forums and have more trouble with this site than all the others put together.
  10. Unlikely but not impossible. Whitworth threads were used in the the US prior to WWI. It's certainly worth checking.
  11. I finished drilling and reaming the 5/8" holes. And set it up in the mill to cut the middle out of them. I got down to just below the bolt holes... And this happened... After the fact, I was able to work out what happened. You can never forget that these machines generate a huge amount of power and when something goes wrong, it happens very fast. But, I think this is only the third time in 10 years I've had a problem like this. I'll have to re-think how to go about doing it. I probably should have switched it over to horizontal and used a horizontal cutter. I'll have to get more steel...I don't have enough left to make both pieces...but I'm going to sleep on it and go back to it tomorrow. This is a good example of why I'd rather make parts than work on the original parts...when something like this happens you've lost time but you haven't ruined something you can't replace. Ed...what size are those 1/2-12's you need. Length and head size. I'm at loose ends tomorrow so I may be able to knock them out. there's no point in wasting time.
  12. I know who Ted bought the car from and when. I'm skeptical of that date as well.
  13. I knew Ted quite well and worked for him at the time of the movie. In fact, I was also in the movie with my 27 Cadillac. The original yellow paint, as used in the movie, was a quickie job done in the body shop at Ted's Volvo dealership. The saddle colored upholstery was dyed green with Connoly's leather paint. It was very much a slap dash job but Ted never cared a whit about what anyone else thought and was completely indifferent to how cars performed as long as they went down the road. Looks, flamboyant looks, were all he cared about. He once bought a huge amount of cheap gold velour and had three or four cars upholstered in it...we called it "bordello yellow." I don't know how anyone could call that louvered hood a "restoration"... it certainly never was to begin with. I'm very skeptical about the advertised restoration cost as well...no matter how complicated they can be to work on. In any case, after Ted died Mrs. Leonard sold his cars. I was approached to get them running again but passed on the job as I had no place I could bring them to work on.
  14. Ed's water pump shaft is all packed up. I'll take it to FedEx in the morning... I got a little done on the spring shackles today... with the two blocks bolted together I put a center hole in for the shackle bolts. If it looks like I'm using a sledge hammer to swat a fly, I used the mill for this because I can move the table very precisely. Then over to the drill press where I used two angle blocks bolted to the table as a fixture to locate the hole. doing it this way, all four holes will be in the same relative position to the blocks. Drilled and reamed to 5/8" for the bushings that will be pressed in.
  15. Is it a spur gear or a helical gear? On a spur gear the teeth run straight across the face while on a helical gear they run at an angle. If it's a spur gear any 60-tooth spur gear of the right diametrical pitch, thickness and hole size will work. There is a formula for calculating the DP...I don't have it at hand but it isn't hard to do. Is your gear worn out? If it is a fiber gear - which is what the picture looks like, you could replace it with a bronze gear. All of this presumes you can't find one easily but I'd think there must be NOS timing gears around...there would not be a big demand for them.
  16. That's my reaction too. I suspect that faced with a real tricky repair I'd still want to use the professional but for a simpler repair - like a cracked leg on an antique machine, I'd be tempted to give it a try.
  17. Yes, by all means. I don't think I have it. email is: jvp5070@gmail.com
  18. Boy do I hat it when that happens. I've been known to type a long answer to something into word and copy it to a forum because if it vanishes into cyber space I know I won't do it again.
  19. Not only did Gary make the hypothetical mating gear, he brought it up to the shop this morning so we could compare them. While waiting for him I milled the blocks that will be the spring shackles down to the finished length. No sooner had I finished that and Gary arrived so we tried the gears to see if they worked together. It looks as if I've calculated the the helix and the diametrical pitch correctly. The 3-D printer software wants to make the gear 2.75" in OD while the original gear is about .100 larger, hence the flats at the tops of the teeth are a bit wider. This is a characteristic of Helical gears...they can be made slightly larger than spur gears for the same tooth and DP settings. I don't know why they did it but it's something I've seen before. The Mitchell timing gears are also a bit larger than the tooth count warrants.
  20. I have to go up to the shop this morning...why don't you stop by and I'll show you the real shaft. I need to take pictures of it before I send it back to Ed. I'm at 401-323-4433...I'll be there in abut 30 minutes (9:50 right now) Cheers, JP
  21. Sure! Thanks. jp [EDIT] What a great idea. My machinist colleagues suggested exactly that except they presume I have another gear to try it with - which, obviously, I don't. We're about 99% sure it's 14.5 degrees but there are some further measurements I can take to confirm that.
  22. This is the big issue with "reverse engineering"...it looks like you just copy the part but there is A LOT more to it than that. I'm in complete agreement though. If all I had to do was order the parts I'd loose interest pretty fast. I posted a picture of it on the Practical Machinist Antique Machinery forum. There are guys there whose knowledge make my efforts almost embarrassing...but it looks as if I've figured it correctly. A 20-tooth DP8 spur gear would be 2.75" in diameter but a helical gear with the same DP can be larger. 20-degree and 14.5 degree gears look subtly different but I have never worked with 20-degree gears and don't have any to compare this one to.
  23. Pressure angle is 14.5. I'm not even sure 20 degrees was current in 1917. Certainly I've never seen a car or a machine took from that era that used 20-degree gears. One of the advantages to helical gears, aside from running quieter, is that there is some flexibility with overall diameter. I did measure the teeth with my gear gauges, which is how I arrived at DP8. I haven't measured them with my B&S Gear Vernier but in this case the challenge is to replicate the gear as it is... I put the shaft in the lathe to see if I could polish it up a bit. Another curiosity is that it's nickel plated. Beside the corrosion there are a few burrs from the plating peeling off. It may not be as badly worn as it looks although I think it's too corroded to use long term. Ed sent me the piece that screws into the end which confirms that the diameter and depth of the counterbore are inconsequential. I was worried that something fit into the piece but that isn't the case. This is going to allow me to utilize most of the length of the large diameter section to anchor the shaft. Because it turns counter clockwise I will have to come up with a means of making it effectively one piece...this may be why they made it in one piece. At the moment I'm leaning towards reaming the hole and using a slip fit secured with a set screw but the jury is still out on that one. I have to plan all of the steps before I start machining. I have ordered the materials and some bits of tooling I'll need so I will be sending this back to Ed before I actually start making the new ones. While thinking about how I'm going to make this, I worked on the spring shackles. The first step was to cut 2 pieces... These were then set up on the drill press using angle blocks to make sure they were in perfect alignment with each other to drill and tap them for cap screws that will hold them thoether. Then they were drilled and one tapped while the hole was enlarged on the other and counterbored. These holes are located so that they will hold the blocks together while machining them but be eliminated in the process. The counterbores are deep enough so that the cap screws don't protrude on either side. And, the engine after three or for days (I think I did this on Monday). The second drip is directly under the plug in one of the banjo bolts...this isn't what I would consider much of a leak. I'll see if I can eliminate it but if this is all I get, I'll be a happy camper. Gary, some place at home (I haven't found it yet) I have the Brown & Sharp manual titled "Formulas in Gearing". I'll want to check that before I start cutting teeth. It's clear that the White company had there own way of doing things...the thread on the piece Ed just sent is 7/8-13, a size not listed in any of my period catalogs and I have them going back to at least 1891. [EDIT] I see that the 20-degree was in use at the time so I'll have to figure out how to measure it. I think it's unlikely they used it, but it's best to be sure before we start cutting.
  24. True enough but to anyone seriously interested in early automotive engineering this is really a once-in-a-ifetime opportunity... a rare car, beautifully made in as near untouched condition as is imaginable...in fact, unimaginable in the real world. How it avoided being "restorated" in the 50s and 60s is a miracle in itself. I've seen several fantastic unrestored cars, a 1909 Packard, 1911 48 HP Locomobile, 1910 Stevens Duryea, 1921 SG Oxford tourer...etc but likely never one as complete and unaltered from new as this one. It's as good as the 28 Franklin I went to see in my neighborhood when I was in HS...put up on blocks in 1941 and still on them in a beautifully kept, clean barn (aside from a light coating of dust...Dr. Marshall kept his outbuildings in perfect condition) with the original tires still holding air and the sales brochure from the Franklin dealer, with the car circled, in the driver's door pocket.
  25. Excellent! Since it's flat on the top it's clear that the depth of the threaded hole and the actual thread have no effect on anything. As long as it goes in and is the right length, we're all set. This is getting better all the time. It does look as if the water pump shaft turns counter clockwise.
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