JV Puleo

I agree completely.

This morning I set the radius tool up to make the crown on the heads of the bolts. The crown is fairly shallow, the total depth at the edge is only .050 but it is very noticable. all done... And just see what they will look like, I put two in. The difference between the old style and the new is striking. I won't be using them as I go forward so I've boxed them up with their washers & lock washers and put them on the shelf until I get to the final assembly.

I finished the threading this morning. In order to make this a little easier I single point the threads to within about .007 of the finished depth then run a re-treading die over them. It has to go on straight...putting it on crooked is how I ruined the first one, but if you are careful and come close to the correct depth the die will cut the rest and deburr the threads at the same time. I then dumped out my big can of antique bolts - most saved from machine's I've repaired or scrapped over the years - to find a period 3/8-16 to measure the head. It is a nominal 3/8 thick with a slight crown and no chamfer on the bottom edge. Modern bolts have a head that is about 1/4" thick and flat. Here's a modern bolt, the old one and the new one I've just made. You can see why just grinding off the grade marking doesn't really disguise anything... I ought to have cut the blanks about 1/4" shorter. Because I didn't, trimming them took a fair amount of time. I get the correct measurement with the first one and set a stop on the lathe bed. Then it is just a matter of jogging the saddle down a little at a time until it hits the stop. I'm almost done. All that is left is to put the crown on them.

Thanks Ed. That's high praise indeed but I don't think this is really a "restoration". It's in an odd place between "rebuild" and "manufacture" but it certainly isn't an attempt to replicate the work of the original maker. I can't see going to an effort like this to purposely replicate some fairly shoddy work. I think it would be different if I'd been able to start with a "best" quality car. Any of the great early makes would have been fine but if I'd waited until I could afford one of those, even in the condition this one was in, I might still be waiting. I'm not too old to do the work but I am too old to put things off for 10 years...

I think that if I were going to attempt this on an otherwise irreplaceable part, I'd look around for another cracked iron casting to try it out on. I've found that with a new process, if I'm going to make an error, I do it at the beginning. With a little practice there are far fewer errors.

I took it easy today...I started threading the sump bolts and ruined the first one. That's why I made an extra so although it annoys me it isn't a major problem. First I did the 4 long bolts... Then the short ones. I put the first one in the sump with a washer and lock washer to make certain I'd gotten the measurements right. They couldn't have been better. It couldn't have fit better. An then went on to do more. They take about 15 to 20 minutes each so something as simple as this involves a lot of time.

It is pretty clear fro the work you've done already that you are a careful as well as skilled workman. I think 98% of the errors people make come from rushing a job...so good luck and I'll be interested to see how it comes out.

First thing this morning my neighbor came over and dropped off the casting for the bracket I made last week (or was it two weeks ago)? I'm pleased with this and my pattern-making skills are clearly improving. I then went back to the sump bolts since I want to finish those now that I've started them. In order to hold them in the lathe I made a little aluminum split bushing...3/8 ID and 3/4 OD so I can hold them by the shank and eliminate the run out that comes from using the hes. I put them all back in the lathe and cut a strong chamfer on the ends. Then set up the grooving/cut off tool to put the relief in for the end of the threads using the dial indicator so get the depth exact. And right about the time I finished this I took a break and helped a friend solve a plumbing problem at his house. After which we had a beer and I decided I'd better not start the threading...so I set the lathe up but I'll do it tomorrow.

No, I hadn't seen that picture. Thanks. I pressed on with the sump bolts today. First trimming all the pieces to the exact length - 14 will be 1-1/4 and 4 will be 1/3/4. I made the blanks identical because it makes all of the subsequent operations a lot easier. Next I turned them down to 3/8". To do this I set a stop in the collet and a stop on the bed of the lathe. Then, using the dial indicator rather than the graduated scales on the lathe I got the correct dimension on the round part. The beauty of this is that once you know what the settings are, it isn't necessary to measure each one. I checked the second one and it matched the first so I went on to do the remaining 18... (18 needed and 2 spares). It still took hours but unlike working on original parts it didn't leave me washed out from the tension. The lathe tool I used has a very slight radius on the end. I used it because it gives a consistently good finish where if I'd used a pointed tool it would have been a little rougher. Butm as a result there is a tiny fillet under the head of the bolt that has to be removed. Next I'm going to make a little holder for the bolts so I can cut the relief for the threads, chamfer the ends and thread them. The hex stock isn't perfectly uniform so if you take it out of the collet and put it back in, and don't put it back the exact same way, it will run out slightly. I should have marked one flat and the collet but forgot to...but I think this next piece will compensate for that and I would have had to do it in any case because chamfering the ends of the bolts when they stick out so far from the collet might bend them slightly. For this I'm using the Harding collets that were original to the lathe. I don't use them much but they are bigger than the 5C so a 1" bar will go all the way through. The 5C collets are a lot more flexible in that all sorts of shapes like hex and square are readily available and cheap. Also, this lathe stood outside in the weather for a good ten years and when I took it apart to get it back in operation the collet adapter was rusted solid in the spindle...so It isn't in the best condition.

Good. That is about what it's good for. I don't doubt you could do this stuff...it is just a matter of practice but I understand that if you don't have a demand for that sort of thing it isn't worth the effort. I have the same reaction to welding... I don't need it much and when I do need it I don't want the sort of job I'd do. It makes more sense to send the work to someone who has the tools and the experience. I'm sure I could learn to do it and I may have to at some point but until then it's a skill I can live without. 30" swing...wow. That is a substantial machine. I wouldn't mind having such a machine myself but I have no place to put it and I'd probably only use it about once every 5 years.

That's good to hear. Yes, I also think one of the threads is collapsed. So far, it's gone well. Actually, so well I fully expect them to come out just fine. The real trick here was to get the angles on the tool and the width of the face correct. 360 brass will thread better than the steel though I've no complaints about how that came out. j

I'm a little surprised at you Ed...Atlas is a total piece of junk. South Bend, which isn't the top end of lathes, is much better. Actually, you will find that like most tools it is far more difficult to work with poor tools than with good ones. I don't think any amount of talent would let you do a good job with a really bad machine. Atlas is the Yugo of machine tools.

Pressing on with my acme threading adventure...this morning I did the LH thread. The difference between RH and LH threads is that the tool travels in the opposite direction. Right to left for RH threads, left to right for LH threads. Until I'd done this I thought there was something mysterious about it...although I think this may only be the second or third time I've made a LH thread. The first step is to reverse the direction of feed on the lathe since you want the spindle of the lathe to turn towards you but you want the saddle to move away from the head stock rather than towards it. That's done by moving the "tumble gears." Then the piece is set up to turn. But, in order to use the threading gauge to engage the half nuts you have to be able to move the saddle a few inches and the relief at the inside end of the thread is not long enough to do this. So, in this case you have to back the tool out and run the lathe in reverse to bring the tool back to the starting point for each cut. I have a brass nut to try this end with. Like the steel nut, it jammed before going on all the way, That was apparently caused by having the last thread in the nut slightly collapsed. Just turning it hard by hand pushed out a tiny burr and it went on just fine. I suspect that is what is wrong with the RH steel nut but I didn't want to force it. The finished piece... And with the nuts screwed on... I'm feeling a bit smug about this, never having made an acme thread before but we won't know if it really works until the job is done. I ordered hex stock last night and now I'll go back to the sump bolts for the car.

Well...I think you made a very fair offer. If the seller wants more, I wish him luck. Personally, I would like an early V8 Cadillac - especially if its "pre-potmetal" and the fact that early 20s Cadillacs have very little bright work is a plus to me. But...I'm unusual in having the skills and tools to reassemble it and not caring about shows or what anyone else thinks so I'm quite happy that the prices on this era car are tanking. In any case, having no place to work on it, I'm not really a potential customer for this or any additional car but I may be able to build a garage at some point and when I do, I'll be looking for a nickel era sedan to fill it.

The 9/16 hex stock I need for the sump bolts came in so I started on them. First cutting the blanks. I need 14 at 1-1/4" and 4 at 1-3/4" and I made one extra of each. Then they were all trimmed on both ends so that the blanks are of identical size. The actual measurement isn't as important as uniformity because if they are identical the same set up will work for all of them equally. If you are wondering why in the world I'm making bolts, its because turn of the century bolts had thicker heads and often a slight crown. They look quite different than modern bolts. To me, just grinding off the grade marks is pointless. They still are immediately identifiable as new. In many cases that doesn't bother me but on this engine I'd like everything within my power to look as if it was done before WWI. The LH nut I need to make the thread gauge for my acme nut project also came in. I need to make certain I can cut an acme thread before I order the 2" brass stock for the nuts, since it's expensive. If this doesn't work, it's not something I'm likely to have much use for in the future. I set the lathe up to thread... And immediately discovered I had a problem. When using my antique Armstrong tool holders, I can't get the correct angle on the bit. Unlike a turning tool which can be ground to most any shape, the threading tool has to go in straight. I improvised and cut a 3/8 slot in a piece of 3/4 flat bar... that I happened to have and luckily is just about precisely the right height. Then started the thread. I took very small cuts and I purposely used the easy machining steel for this so the thread came out smooth. I'd looked up the dimensions in Machinery's Handbook and as I got close kept fitting the nut. It screwed on at a depth of .088 which is about right as the optimum depth is between .083 and .093. But, for some reason it sticks. It will only thread on in one direction which leads me to think the threads in the nut are damaged. I'm trying to make a gauge from a worn nut so, to an extent, I'll have to trust my instincts here. Tomorrow, or perhaps Monday, I'll do the LH side but this came out good enough that I think Ill order the brass hex tonight.

So far, everything had gone well with this job but just when you think it's easy, something goes wrong. Next I turned the piece around to make the counterbore on the other side uniform... it was wildly off. And went right through the casting at the bottom edge, something I hadn't anticipated but fortunately isn't really a big issue because the casting itself is so massive. I filed the slot to make it look as if it was supposed to be there. There is supposed to be a notch on this side for a corss pin in the shaft of the crank handle. You can see here the Mitchell Lewis notion of "precision." Not only is it just a saw cut with a piece knocked out, it isn't on the center line either. So I put it in the mill and used a 1/2" ball end cutter to get a slot with a rounded bottom. I will probably use a 7/16 pin in this 1/2" slot so it slides in easily. Then I turned the piece around to drill a hole for a little Gits oiler. The hole that was there was off center and I'd plugged it. I drilled it and when I tapped it the plug moved and the tap stuck. So I made one of my threaded brass sleeves. I was able to open the hole up just enough to eliminate the remains of the plug and then thread it. And put the sleeve in. The little pipe plug is there to give me something to turn. But now the end of the threaded sleeve projects into the hole for the shaft so I had to put it back in the lathe and ream it. So...after spending most of the day on a "quick" job I did get something acceptable. I have half a dozen of these NOS oilers I'll use around the car. I then spent the rest of the day cleaning up this stack of drawers given to me by a friend. The number of small bits around the shop is starting to overwhelm me and I'm wasting a lot of time looking for things I know I have so this is an attempt to get a little more organization into efferc. I'm still waiting for my casting but the material I need for the special sump bolts came in at the end of the day so between putting stuff away and that I've plenty to do for the next week or so.

To add a little to the stitching/welding/brazing debate...aside from it being cast iron, we have no way of knowing what the original metal even is. they were very good at cast iron at the turn of the century but that does not mean that all castings were perfect or even good. When I had the blocks of my car bored once of the comments made by the gentleman who did it was that the iron was different in the two blocks. One was very dense - a really good casting but the other was powdery...not a bad casting but clearly not as good as the first one. The saving grace of stitching is that, since it does not use heat, it is applicable to practically all castings and works equally well regardless of the makeup of the original metal. And...I bet that car was off the road before 1910. It was fairly common to use the old engines for pumps, saws and whatever else a farmer or mechanic could think up and not want to spend much money on.

Yesterday I took the magnetic chuck off and setup the grinding fixture. Aside from having to tighten up the set screws that hold the bit, because it moved this part of the job went as well as I could hope. I have gotten the angle perfect and, in as much as I can tell I have the width of the cutting face right too. Unlike 60-degree V threads, the width of the flat on the end of the bit is different for each acme thread so each thread needs a different cutter. I then started on the male fixture. The hole in the center is so I can use a mandrel to turn it. The ends are 1-1/4". One end will get a RH thread and the other end a LH thread but I need a LH nut to use as a gauge - I could do the RH thread (because I have a nut) but if I did the LH thread using the same numbers while it should work...I can't be certain it would work. If I made the nuts to fit the gauge and I was off they wouldn't screw onto the part they are supposed to mate with or they might be too loose. Then, because all this took less time than I'd predicted (a very rare event) I looked around for something else to do and lit on the crank handle bracket. I bushed this a long time ago and it was mechanically straight but the casting is so irregular that it looked off center and it's one of those things that has bothered me for some time. I finally thought to turn the end. I've no idea why I didn't think of that before but it uses the same 7/8 mandrel as the threading gauge so the late was all set up. There was also a plug in the original oil hole – which was badly off center as well. Because this is cast iron it is turned at a very low speed so despite not being a very big part I spent the rest of the day and this morning on it. I'll now see if I can clean up the other end and put in a neat slot for the cross pin that keeps the crank attached to the chassis.

Wasn't Queequeg the harpooner?

I'll add that Millbury is just up the road from me...if you can save some money by shipping it to an industrial address you can ship it to me and I'll deliver it. jp

I have to endorse Ed's opinion on this. The bottom line, to me, is that welding or brazing may work and may also leave you with a really unrepairable part. Stitching will work...an my understanding is that Ed's source won't accept the job unless he can do it. You could use the dye to identify the cracks and send him pictures and a comprehensive description of the casting - like the wall thickness etc. I'm guessing he'll say he can do it and from all I've heard when he does a job it stays done. The shipping will be a killer but not as bad as making a new crankcase.

I generally follow the same line of thinking on changes. The limiting factor here though is that an oil pan gasket won't be under pressure and, when compressed, will hardly be in contact with the oil. Because this is a long throw engine, the sump is fairly deep. The surface the material would be applied to is a good 2" above the oil level, if not more. It isn't really a "seal" in the conventional sense. It's more a rubber gasket in place of a paper or cork gasket. In any case, it would not prevent me from using a cork or paper gasket if it doesn't work well. In thinking about it, it would only work with a cast sump that had very thick flanges so there is no reason why we'd see it on anything made after the advent of stamped steel sumps.The only major reservation I have is that it contradicts my attempt to do everything according to what was known and done in period and I've already made compromises there partly because the materials just aren't available or using the original technique is beyond my capacity.

I should use this more for lathe bits. I'm glad I made the little holder for 3/8 because now I can do it a lot more efficiently. I should have thought of that a long time ago. I'm going to make one for 1/4" and 5/16" too although those will probably be used with boring bars.

I'm flattered...If I was in Florida I'd probably be hanging around your place and not getting anything done. While I'm waiting for my casting I thought I'd get moving on a special job I've been mulling over for a month. It's some acme thread nuts in a size that isn't available any longer, if it ever was. I don't think it was ever common. 1-1/4-6 acme. I've never cut an acme thread so there is a learning curve involved. I was surprised to find that no one sells acme thread lathe bits...perhaps it is rare to make them the old fashioned way. In any case, after getting the proper gauges and figuring out what the lathe bit should look like I started making one. Fortunately, I have this very adjustable grinding fixture. I'm not sure what it was originally for. I bought my old surface grinder from a shop where the owner was retiring and everything was for sale. He had half a dozen of these - they were only about $25 - and it looked as if it might be useful though I didn't know what for. I've used it once to grind my first internal threading bit so I know it works. The problem is, holding the 3/8" square bit in the fixture. I started by making a little holder... I think this will work...Before I can make the nuts I have to make a gauge to thread the nuts on to and to hold them while I turn the faces. It's the same procedure I've used before for making V-thread nuts but quite a bit more complicated. Acme threads are widely used on machines for lead screws and in places where you need extreme strength and/or fine adjustment so, if this works, it will be a really worthwhile skill. I've already thought of a way to put it to use for the device I've designed to motorize my line boring bar... I'll have to make another holder for a 1/4" bit to fit into a boring bar to do the internal threads but if this works as I hope it will the next step will be a lot easier.

I think I've devised a way of holding the sump but there isn't enough travel in the table to get the edges under the spindle and the maximum spindle speed on the mill is half of what is recommended for a small, bull nose end mill. However, I am reasonably certain it will work in my vertical mill. It's much newer, built in 1962. I've had it for about 2 years but had to take it apart to get it through the door and haven't put it back together yet. It needs some work as well since I bought it in a Boston scrap yard. But, I will have to do it reasonably soon because I need it to make the connecting rods and finish the pistons. Those will probably be the last things I need for the engine. I've put it off because, unlike many other parts, real precision is required and I didn't feel I had the skills yet. I may not have them now but I'm a lot better at this stuff than when I started 8 years ago.