30DodgePanel

Thats fine. I was just pointing out the descrepancies that were found. Kinda goes to your point about "just selling keys". I don't think they cared as you say what the original shape was. The more I think about this the more I can see that we are bound to run into many different versions of untruths so my conclusion is starting to shape up like this. 1.) We need to find someone who has a fully documented original car and truck and see if the keys are a match. or 2.) Original North East or Dodge Brothers literature that is time period correct that directly mentions it. That's just my thoughts at this point.

Yeah I was looking at that key last night , making note of a couple of the hex shaped ones. And yes I'm sure all key guys wouldn't want to get bogged down by redundant questioning of something that seems meaningless to them but I'm reminding them this is truely a historical piece of information we're trying to answer and they are usually pretty willing. I don't want to take up to much of anyones time but I see these answers as critical for a number of reasons. You of all people understand that. EDIT: and I agree and understand fully what your telling us in this post. Taken with a grain of salt Thanks again for the help

Thanks George, that makes me wonder why the key men told me the stock was round for my IM Code ? Interesting and I'm encouraged to see yours are Octal shaped. I still believe the North East ad is correct and that our keys were Octal shaped even though it was only an artist's rendition. I just don't believe they would have let such significant information be released at such a critical time in automobile history. I mean, if that was the case then thousands of the coil parts for these vehicles would have been falsely represented and I'm sure would have damaged their reputation along with the bottom line if that was true. But if it was a mistake I would think we would be able to find the corrected information as well. George, your face plate tells me something I never knew before. Never seen the word "ON" in all the ignition coils I've studied. Good to know. Is there anything written on the top of the face plate like the word "OFF" ? I only found the word "Ignition" on the bottom of both of mine. Thanks again for taking the time to post the information. It helps alot ! EDIT: Sorry Jason I didn't realize you were posting. Disregard some of my line of questioning now that I've read your last 2 posts...

I don't have Vol 2 but I think your referring to Vol 1 Sec 2 Page 28 Here is page 28 IM's 500-749

What a glorious time that must of been. I'll take the unsafe conditions over the EPA restrictions anyday,,,, let America thrive and build again.

If you think it will help IM Listing Vol 1 Sec 2 Page 27 Again, my key code is IM 058 2nd column in under the 050 cut instructions are 13412

Hey Graham Man, I shot you a PM but still haven't heard back from you. Some guys don't use the PM option so I wanted to double check via this route to see if you could post pics of the Carbs you have ? If I'm not interested, someone else may be able to use them. Regards, Dave

Just a brief update from George at the key men. His latest reply in regards to my last question in regards to the United Motors Confidential Auto Key Codes . My question was "That wouldn't help if we were to locate one somewhere ? It says shows lock codes for many U.S. autos from 1924 to 1936" His response was : "I have one of these. All it does is show the codes and the cuts.and their equivalent key, which doesn't even look like an original key. United Motors was a brand cooked up by the GM parts department to allow them to sell replacement keys for other brands as well as their own".

After communicating with George at the key men for the past few couple of days and explaining to him what our goal is in trying to uncover these things here is his last comment: "It's my view that it's not possible to resolve the issue unless you find an original stamped key. There is no literature that would resolve the issue unless it was Dodges orders for the keys". I did ask him if he thought the United Motors Automotive confidential key code book would reveal anything as well pryor to his comment. Just doesn't make any sense that a guy can spend $20-30,000 on a restoration bringing something back to it's original form but have a $10 key be the only thing that isn't original or is questionable at the very least.

Theres also some conflicting information in post #84. The book mentioned is "Builders Hardware" (probably a pre 36 book) showing two different keys for the Dodge key stock (notice it doesn't say Dodge Brothers because everything would have been listed under Chrysler by this point). Notice the stock numbers to the IM series IM 000-249 1098DB in the 2nd photo is a Dodge car key and 1098X in the 1st photo says the stock for Chrysler IM 000-249 but 1098X in the 2nd photo is listed as a Ford key. This is the same key that the key men are saying would be original for the 42107stock number. :confused: Both are different keys with a similar shape. So which one would have been original ? I'm assuming it's telling us that either key would work but doesn't say which key style would have been original. Also in the second photo is H1122T showing a Chrysler-DeSoto ILCO Octal shaped key. Note these are all designated for "CAR"

Jason, was hoping you could clarify something for me? In post #27 the book your showing, it mentions the DA as being a JL series code. But yet both of the DA coil's I have are both IM series, one from a car, and one from a truck. Also it seems as it's saying an entirely different stock number for the JL series, am I reading that correctly ? What am I missing ? The answer is here somewhere... that book is important to the answer, I still believe that. Is there anything else in there that would shed some light on the IM's, other series numbers, or Stock numbers ? Maybe a North East or Delco Remy section perhaps ?

I sure wish I had some better literature in my hands.... Just trying to fit all the correct answers together from many different sources in many different hands. So far everyone is willing to help and it's answering some of the questions but more work needs to be done. Heres where we are: According to the Reeds General Code book the key for IM 058 (the good Coupe coil) and IM 056 (the seized truck coil) would have been the same key design according to stock number 42107. Heres the catch, we have two conflicting pieces of information however: The North East ad shows a octal shaped key which we've always assumed was a truck key. But George at the key men is now telling me according to a Briggs and Stratton Catalog dated 1932 that he found shows the stock number of 42107 as being a round key. Key Men - Catalog #: 1098X-OEM2 The Octal shaped key stock number is 52253 Key Men - Catalog #: H1098L-OEM One other note, I assumed the stock used originally on trucks would have been brass and not nickel. Does anyone show anything that has the TYPE of stock used, was it brass or nickel originally ? There has to be someone out there who has an original key for both the car and truck that can share some thoughts. Thanks for all the help

Vol 1 only, 3 hasn't arrived yet. Won't make much of a difference though. I feel the key guy I dealt with really lead me astray on the Reeds books but live and learn. He did answer some valuable questions but I was really anticipating more info in regards to years of makes of vehicles and naming precisely what Vehicles the codes fit or showing the year ranges that they were for.. But he did warn me it was only for the Locksmith telling them how to make the cuts so I'm not complaining but he did tell me there were dates and said "oh yeah, Dodge Brothers is in here" ... it's not. Chrysler, DeSoto, Plymouth are all mentioned but no mention of Dodge Brothers and no dates so I'm dissappointed but the search continues. The key men got back to me and said they could make a key but it was round. Still trying to see if I can resolve that issue because the stock is 42107 according to the Reeds General Code book Vol 1 a hex shaped key from all indications but he told me tonight " I have no way to look up #42107 and no I don't accept keys being shipped to me to be made up, I make keys from what I have, I don't accept anyone shipping in a key in order for me to make it". So even if I find the right stock he's saying he won't do the job. Guess it's to much to ask to get it right lol...

Hi Richard, I went to your website and did a simple search for parts. Only came across 2 parts for sale after searching many different variations. It's a bit confusing to be honest, but I'd like to give it an honest look so can you suggest anything that would make my search more fruitful or do you just not have anyone selling auto parts yet ? Thanks, Dave

couple of more

Thought you guys may want to see some of these from the WPC news 1979 if you haven't already

George, thanks for that info. Can I ask, were both trucks fitted with the winged emblem when you purchased them or have you added anything ? Is it your view they are both original equipment ? Also, if they were fitted with them when you purchased them have you confirmed the parts numbers according to documention for your 31 being winged originally ? Not trying to be a smart a** or stoke a fire, I'm just trying to figure this out respectfully so I hope no one takes offense to my line of questioning. I'm just wondering... all my research tells me the winged emblem stopped sometime in 30 but obviously I am wrong in that assumption, so is the one on Georges truck a carry over ? I ask because all the 31's and 32's according to some things I've found from showroom photos like from the WPC news Feb 1979 Issue shows all of the blue triangular emblems and the radiator caps that have the DB logo on top of the cap and it's specifically discussing the 31 and 32 model trucks, not the 30 or 29. So again I'm still wondering how your 31 is a winged emblem ? Not saying your wrong, it's just a question that I'm putting forth. As I said, I'm trying to play catch up to most of what everyone knows already so forgive me if I'm asking redundant questions. I just want to solve some mysteries that we've all had according to the many posts I've read for the last 2 years since I became interested in this Panel truck of mine.

stakeside, That really is a great lookin truck and your doing a nice job on it. 1930, "I am referring to the entire frame area forward of the rear hump that you mention with the exception of the very front frame horn". Yep. Thats the style of frame I have.

I would say this is more like what we are really looking for : VINTAGE LOCKSMITH AUTOMOBILE KEY CODES BOOK

NOPE, wish I could say yes but nada EDIT: If I come across some I'll let you know but I highly doubt it's in there. EDIT #2: That's what I was hoping to find more of by the way. Pretty disappointed to say the least, but at least I know where to turn now.

Well... one of the books arrived today. Not at all what I anticipated it would be. Good for a locksmith and has some valuable information in there but I'll need to reference alot more than the Reed General Code books to get a better understanding. It's mainly to tell a locksmith how deep to make each cut with brief descriptions of which vehicles it covers. On a better note I did find this on the web and this one page tells us quite a bit but still leads to more questions (for me at least) in regards to the Clums and the Model T codes and the designs of those keys. But, not to get off track, at least I found out what I was initially going for. Heres a page showing the abbreviations and some of the meanings you may have came across. This is just a small sample of the style of keys ***NOTE*** These photos are NOT in the Reed General Code books so don't waste your money on them.

Yes, I was just looking at some pics of it the other day now I recall what I was thinking. The shape of his radiator is closer to the 28 GB's than the smoother ones from 29 forward. I'll let you know on the frame .

From what I've found the change for a few changes took place in different years. The interior, the exterior bell molding, mirrors and where they were located, bumper styles, and even bumper medallions seem to have a variation in some instances. For instance the radiator from 28 GB's started the change in style from 28 to some time in 29 to a smoother radiator shell. In 29 some were painted shrouds but mostly chrome with the winged DB emblems in 29 and 30 like the ones on the 29 Merchant Express at the Museum and my truck. Then I noticed a change in 31 and 32 were all the deep blue porcelein triangular shaped emblems with the chrome radiator shrouds. My guess without seeing the other guys radiators is that Stakeside has a GB emblem Farrellg has maybe one of each, a winged DB on the 30 and the blue triangle DB logo on the 31. And 29Dodgetruck has the winged DB emblem as well although his truck is more than likely a 30 not a 29 as he has indicated already. Would that be a fair assessment gents ? So if that's true it's pretty easy to tell one year from the next. 28 was the last year for GB radiator emblem from all indications with possibly some carryovers into 29. 29 and 30 were the same then 31 32 were the same. Interiors were the same from what I can tell from 28 and 29 then 30, 31 and 32 were the same. As for the straight frame, I'll have to check and get back to you. I believe it's straight but I just want to be sure. It does dip down at the horn where the bumper mounts but I don't think that's what your talking about. Your talking about over the front axle correct ?

Yes Vol 3 is on the way as well. He's selling me Vol 1 because he padlocks and trunks and when he ordered it he didn't realize it was for cars and truck. He has nothing to do with cars and the book just sits on his shelf. Contacted the key men 2 days ago and still haven't heard back from them. :confused: