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Edgar Bowen

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About Edgar Bowen

  • Birthday 08/17/1936

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  1. Re: petcocks and the correct quantity of oil in the crankcase to stop oil being forced out of the engine. 500ml or half a litre for each pair of cylinders is what it should be. That is 1 litre of engine oil altogether and you won't have any more trouble.
  2. Hi Edgar here, Hupp 20s have tricks and traps for the unwary in their clutch design. As Max said mine was slipping more than usual until it finally didn't work at all. The unit which holds the plates broke at the clutch release bearing, causing lots of mischief. I fitted a needle roller bearing in place of the brass shims which worked well. However I failed to notice that this spigot was already warn badly from previous brass washers, so the needle bearing rolled around the spigot and eventually parted it off as clean as a lathe leaving the gear box oil heavily polluted with powdered iron. All four of my spare clutches were similarly worn, so I had the worst one built up with nickel bronze at red hot temperature and cooled very slowly in lime. I also have a needle bearing fitted between the clutch drum and crankcase so the engine doesn't stall when de-clutching at idling speed. These bearings are far better than brass and fibre washers. I found it easiest to drop the rear axle and undo the gearbox from the engine rather than lifting out the whole power unit. Here is a word of warning; because the clutch unit as a whole forms the rear journal of the crankshaft. Do not attempt to remove it from the engine to work on the clutch. Instead undo the 10 round slotted bolts after cutting out the wire which runs through each of their heads. If the wire is not bent at all, make up a jig to put the bolts in so that each one goes back into its original place otherwise you have to refit each one with washers so the holes for the tie wire, line up when you put it back together. Otherwise you will never get the wire back through them again. Because of the very strong spring inside, you need to take out 3 bolts and replace them with high tensile rods 3 inches long with 5/16 UNF thread and nuts screwed down to the clutch unit. Then remove all the other bolts with a short ratchet screw driver. Gradually undo the nuts on the threaded rods in turn until the unit comes undone. Inside the heavy spring impinges on a race of ball bearings in a brass holder. If this ball race is worn out it is easy to make a replacement. Just turn a new brass holder on the lather and bore a series of holes in it to hold new steel balls. Make the holes exactly the same size as the balls. Place the balls in the brass one at a time and crimp them in place with a steel hole punch (slightly bigger than the balls) on both sides of the brass ring.
  3. Hi Karl, this may not be what you want to hear, but I find the surest way to remove the engine is to undo the radius rods at the gear box; undo the brake rods; support the back end of the chassis on axle stands; undo the u bolts securing the centre bolt of the transverse spring; Support the front of the torque tube with another axle stand on a low engine trolley on wheels. Then lift the chassis off the rear spring and slowly roll the back end on its wheels, until the universal clears the gear box. Now with radiator and engine hood removed, hoist the engine tilting it upwards at the front until it clears the front cross member, and move it upwards and forwards until clear of the vehicle. Installation is exactly the reverse except that you need a very fine wire or fishing line to support the floppy universal to get it back into the rear of the gear box. This requires two, even three people and a flash light as the flywheel needs to be turned to meet the entering universal when the back axle is moved forward to mate up with the gear box. When you come to undoing the clutch drum, be sure to hold it together in a strong vice as you undo the bolts. I use Torrington bearings for the clutch, inside against the spring, and outside against the crankcase. I know Max Burke disapproves, but I have done thousands of miles with them and never had a scrap of trouble because the clutch runs in oil. Patience is all that is needed for this job. Edgar:)
  4. I agree that this car is most likely a Model B made in early 1911 serial number 7000 to 8000 with an old incorrect body restoration based on that of a 1911 Model C without doors which were optional or removeable. One might be tempted to think of it as a Model C, i.e. late 1911 but the rolling chassis has the characteristics of Model B with small size brake drums and bolts on the crankcase to lock the main bearings of the crankshaft in place. The restorer did not know that Model B headlamp gimbals are bolted to the inside of the chassis side rails with the headlamps low set; all traps for the unwary! I have two Model B cars, one in the 5000s and the other in the 7000s, with an original driver's handbook, so can speak with some authority on them. Edgar
  5. Some very interesting pictures of what appears to be a genuine Model B Hupmobile 1910-11 but definitely not a Model A of 1909, engine and gearbox numbers would verify that. However the car is not original regarding the body. It should have short aluminium step plates with differently shaped rear fenders (mudguards). The dash board has been reproduced out of low grade wood and should have a curved top, not straight like the one in the picture. The side-light brackets should be angled and fastened to the rear of the dashboard with the dashboard supporting brackets on the front having six fasteners and not four. The angle of the fuel tank behind the seat looks too upright, it should slope forwards. The wheel hubs look correct but should have larger aluminium hub caps and not brass ones which were fitted to subsequent models from mid 1911. Edgar
  6. I can help you with pictures and information about 20HP Hupmobile cars in their various models of 2 seat runabouts: A 1909, B 1910/11, C 1911/12 and G 1912/13. Each model is slightly different. Model E was a long wheel base 2 seat roadster; and model D was a long wheel base 4 seat touring. Are you talking about small model kits made of wood or plastic, or full size reproduction cars made of steel with wood coachwork? Edgar
  7. Hi these are beautiful reproductions but you got the dating wrong. The brass hub caps were introduced in 1911 for the Model C runabout and other current models. In 1909 and 1910 the hub caps were aluminium and of different shape. They were fitted to Model A and B runabouts and other current models of those years. Edgar
  8. Hi Phil, there is no gasket but I use exhaust cement to make sure gasses don't leak out at the joint which should be a tight fit. Be aware when using non original parts that some brass nuts have a different thread from that on the exhaust manifold. Edgar
  9. That was what I thought last year. Then I found the intake manifold was sucking air because the clamps holding it on weren't tight enough. I made new gaskets and fixed the problem but then had to re-tune the carby. I found the fuel level has to be ¼ inch below the top of the bowl. When running the engine again I re-set the main jet for best performance and now it is perfect.
  10. Phil, the camshaft has to be melted out if you want to change the timing gear and the home hobbyist can do it. It's a real fun job and I mean it, giving an immense feeling of satisfaction when complete. This is how it is done take my word for it. You will need the following tools: 1 portable propane gas cylinder with cooking top, or camping propane cooker; 1 cast iron ladle with a long handle; one cast iron animal glue pot or similar container to melt the babbit metal in; 1 infra red pyrometer to measure the heat of the side plate (costs around $120 and essential); hand held propane blow torch; old engine cylinder head in which to put threaded rods to support the side plate which needs to be about 6 inches above the cylinder head so it can be heated from underneath; oxy-acetylene welder to heat the side plate evenly to a temperature of around 190 degrees celsius; diesel grade babbit(white metal); nickel anti-seize extreme temperature lubricant spray can; 2 steel jigs to hold the camshaft in place and six aluminium jigs to contain the molten metal. Making the latter is time consuming and that is where the expense lies. The critical issue is in lubricating the camshaft journals. Where most operators fail including tradesmen, is ending up with a seized journal next to the timing gear. This is because of the mass of cast iron in the side plate at the timing gear end. When the side plate cools down, there is more shrinkage here than around the other three journals. The secret and simple remedy is to wrap two layers of newspaper around this offending journal held in place by the lubricant! If you or anyone else would like to have a go I will send details on how to make the jigs using cardboard patterns. If you do the job yourself the financial outlay including white metal and pyrometer but not the heating devices and other tools will be say $400. If you need a new camshaft because the old lobes are badly worn, they are obtainable in Brisbane, Queensland, Australia. Cost wise, if you get a tradesman to do the job, 'how long is a piece of string?' My knowledge and experience cost nothing. All the best Edgar
  11. Hi Phil, regarding your question about how tight rear wheel hubs should fit on the axle, the answer is very tight if they are tapered axles. They are not hammered on but drawn on with the nut being tightened up. However don't do that without having a puller to get them off again, one that screws onto the hub cap thread with a bolt through the middle that screws against the end of the axle. If your axles are straight ended and the hub is held on by a pin through the axle. The tightness will be a light tap on fit with a wood mallet. In either case make sure there is a small gap between the top of the key and the hub. In other words the tightness must be on the sides of the key and I wouldn't have it too tight either. Edgar
  12. The little rings which join the manifolds to the cylinder blocks can be cut out of exhaust pipe tubing.
  13. Hi Phil, I have a mandrel made up to fit inside the rear axle housings so they can be turned in a lathe. That is by far the most accurate method of determining how true the mating faces of the dif bell housing are. As to the bronze bearing, I wait to see a photo of it. Wishing you a Merry Christmas
  14. Thanks a lot for that tip Phil, I will definitely try the John Deere grease. It should be just the right thing. It might even work in the universal joint too. I have my Hupp running perfectly now after several carburetor adjustments. I go to church in it and take it to do my shopping to the amusement of people down town. Edgar
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