1936 D2

Ornaments are different for the four models, DCDP. They each are symbolic of the particular models' hood ornament. I have mostly seen Chrysler (Wing) and DeSoto (Art Deco Circle with sweep), just one Plymouth (Ship) and I have yet to see an actual Dodge ornament (Ram) as of yet. The bottoms of the "Wheel Shields" have a double row of trim mouldings (three pieces) on Chrysler. The lower is full length painted body color and the uppers (2 pieces) are bright stainless as I recall. I think the DeSoto has a single painted trim along the bottom, and Plymouth and Dodge (for sure) did not have any of this trim moulding at all. There will be no holes in the "Wheel Shield" for this trim on Plymouth and Dodge shields. The extended sweep style of the "Wheel Shield" is for the standard or "Airstream" style cars. The "Wheel Shields" that come straight down are for the "Airflow" designed cars. This is a Chrysler "Wheel Shield" from '36 (on a Dodge). Here are a couple '36 Chrysler "Airstream" "Wheel Shields". You can easily see the winged style ornament. This is a '35 DeSoto "Airflow" "Wheel Shield". This is a "Wheel Shield" ornament for Dodge on a '36 Coupe. A bit hard to see detail in this small photo. But I am thinking this is a later shield for Dodge, like a '37-'39 era. (The fit seems wrong in the opening too). The ornament is a stylized "Ram" with the hair flowing back. It would be a similar styling idea in '36. These are the different ornaments for '37 & '38. (Hope Jim is ok with using his photo in this educational Forum!) They show how the ornaments are different BUT, they are NOT the same as '35 and '36 ornaments. Also, these later "Wheel Shields" do not make use of the lower trim moulding.

Hey hey! Looks like you got it off! Excellent! (Photos are all about the close-up mode [or "tulip" mode] to get the shots that really help out here on the Forum). And good advise on stainless vs steel!

OH NOOOO!!! Wish I could talk you out of that decision. OK. I'm gonna say something that I will probably take some flak for but here are my thoughts. Don't sell it just yet. Even the idea that you came this far is a big plus in my humble opinion. I think if you got it in a running condition and spruced up the paint a bit you would start to build a long lasting interest in this great car. Back in the day, owners did not do all the "correct" repairs either, like in this case remove the engine to replace the rear freeze plugs. They used "treatments" all the way from chicken eggs to professional products to stop coolant leaks. Why not try some of those "from the day" ideas first so that you can start to drive the car around and enjoy it for a while. Once you can do that you will start to hear the raves of people congratulating you on a "great old car" and you will get spurred on to do more with it! I think you will be surprised at how many people will be giving you the "thumbs up" and asking questions while you gas up. It sometimes almost gets annoying - NOT! But do baby steps here. You will thank yourself later. Try this... (OK. Here comes the flak.) There are chemical preparations out there that can be used in engines to stop leaks. "Bar's Leak" ( http://barsproducts.com/catalog/brand/all/component/cooling ) has some good products out there and have for close to 120 years. Check out products like that and do some internet research on comments about them. This may be the way to start on the leak issue. That way you can be driving. It will get your "old car" juices" flowing without a lot of time, expense and effort now. Then once you are hooked (you will know when that happens) you can make plans for doing some of these repairs "the right way" for long term reliability. Another idea would be to clean up the paint, just like any old time owner would have done, by using a rubbing compound to clean off the surface of the original paint and get some of the original shine back. Maybe you could have a "Polishing Party" and have your friends over so each can take a space of the car and shine it up. Along with having a nice get together, you personally will not get overwhelmed with work and can enjoy the process. Plus all your friends can take a small stake in the project and may take an interest in helping out as time passes. I had a professional "dry chemical upholstery cleaner" (very little water is used) do the interior of my car's original upholstery and it came out nice. All the mouse smell is gone and now it just has that "old car smell" that is very unique to these older cars - but the way it was! All that for not a lot of cash and two things should happen. You will get the car looking nice - and original, and it will be able to move like a car so you can get the feel of it and have some fun. In the mean time you can take in all the comments about "keeping it original" or "do a frame off restoration" and see where it leads you. Your car as it is will allow you to jump either way. But like I said earlier, it is so nice now and a bit more rare that this may be a good one to keep original! ;-)

Very nice photos Graham! The second shot was making me wonder if the valve's shaft going through the lever is threaded or just mushroomed over on the end? Look carefully at the end of that shaft just coming out of the lever. Is that a thread or the edge of the mushroom? (I have no specific knowledge of these parts though. Too old for me!) If mushroomed you will have to grind off the end of the shaft right down to the lever casting for it to clear the diameter of the hole in the lever. If it is a thread it, of course, will have to be unscrewed. But either way you will still have to release the grip of the rust. Looking at the materials of these items from your photos makes me think that it will be OK to heat the lever arm almost to cherry red to get it to release the rust's grip on the shaft inside the lever arm. I think if you start with the heat you will be able to tell if the shaft is threaded or just mushroomed on the end a bit. Once the lever is moving on the shaft you will be able to tell. Good luck.

The 600/16 is the correct tire for the D2. Only the 7 passenger sedans used the larger/taller 650/16's. Most cars of the period were blackwalls. If the build card showed WWW then of course that would be correct. But that is rare. There is a pretty good photo out there of Shirley Temple standing on the running board of a D2 with her hand on the distinctive Goodyear "Diamond Tread" tire in the car's sidemount well. That photo was used in Life magazine ads for Dodge. Since the "Diamond Tread" is still available, I would guide you in that direction. I have seen the D2 with radials and that just doesn't look right at all for the age of the car.

Oh My! What a nice "Survivor"!!! In this current age, I would do my best on a car in that shape to clean it up as bestas possible and keep it as original as you can. I think you will be surprised at how well it will look with the proper cleaning and maintenance, and yet still be original! I tend to lean with the thoughts of "nearchoclatetown" and "DodgeKCL". Yes, the front floor heel and toe boards come out rather easily, the side splash pans and lower inner fender panels also can be removed from underneath. That really opens up the area around the engine. Again, a good cleaning up will improve the looks a lot and will make diagnosing and fixing issues that much easier and more pleasant. I would guess that you guys have a lift in your new shop. That makes transmission and clutch work much easier and more accessible. That may be the way to go. Yes, there is a water channel in the block behind the water pump. The radiator and grille must be removed if you are thinking about replacing this item. Again, my vote is to keep the car looking as much original as possible and just cleaning up the finish etc. Many people are looking to see "what is original" on these cars so when an unmolested one shows up that can be a major blessing! Besides, this one is so nice! Just keep it mechanically fit and have fun with it!

It is used for starting. It is like the fast idle control that is normally automatic on most modern cars. You would pull it out about a quarter inch or so (not too much!) so that the engine idle is a bit higher just after starting. Then once the engine warms up a bit you can push it back in so that the engine will idle at the normal slower pace. This should only take a few seconds or so. You should not need the fast idle for very long. You will know if it is too early to push it in. The engine will start to stumble if not warm enough. BTW... it is not a good idea to use this control as a "cruise control". There is no way that it will automatically slow the engine speed in the event of an accident, braking or quick road condition changes (like pea gravel or black ice). All of these will result in loss of vehicle control from over reving the engine, or damage from the same. (Unless you are very lucky!)

Not much happening over here either at -13 deg F! (That's -25 deg C). Burrrrr.

Titles in WI for these early vehicles (pre mid 1960's) were issued showing the vehicle's "year" as the year the vehicle was first sold. So if a vehicle was built in say mid 1922 but was not first sold until like March of 1923, the WI title will show the vehicle to be a 1923. WI also used "Engine Numbers" for titling purposes until the mid 1960's. That is just the way statute law is in WI. The Bill of Sale, with all descriptive numbers that you can find on the vehicle (one of which MUST be the current engine block number) should get you a Title in WI. The State's "Special Plates Section" will be the place with the most info on how to do all this. (They are much more qualified to handle these early vehicle registrations than a local DOT Registration Counter Site.) During part of this process the vehicle's numbers will need to be inspected by a State Vehicle Inspector (State Patrol) or certain Officers in local departments properly trained by the State Patrol. The more documentation you can get the better. If there is an old Registration paper from the earlier owner, or maybe some bank papers showing a loan payment on the vehicle in the past, possibly some garage receipts for repairs done in the distant past, or any such documents, you will be better off. The inspectors are trying to be satisfied that the vehicle is not listed as stolen and that the person selling it has the right to sell. Eventually you will get a title. Then, if you have the "Serial Number" (not the "Engine Number"), you may have some luck with The Chrysler Historical Collection getting a copy of the vehicle's Build Record. THAT is interesting information!

Here is the Google (German to English) translation of the entry from "peter.k": Hello friend Dodge in distant Australia It's nice that you celebrate that. would have liked to have been with my car there. Unfortunately, the road is a bit too long. In thought I am with you. Looking forward to some pictures of you. Gruss Peter.k

Parting or trade (if you are not contemplating a low level restoration) would be the way to go instead of modification. Like "Steve9" was getting at, you will have the same body work to do if you elect to modify with an S-10 frame. Why add all the engineering involved with that modification to the already there issue of body restoration? This car is in too good of shape to think about a "rat rod" idea plus I have never seen a really interesting "rat" done on a 4dr base vehicle. This car is special already because of its (probably) dual sidemounts. A fairly rare option in its day. If you are not thinking about taking on the idea of a restoration, which the people on this Forum would be glad to help you out with, then I would think the best idea would be to part the vehicle out so some of these rare parts would not fall to waste. You MAY catch a trade but that would be much more sketchy to get all the right conditions to set that up. Good luck with your decision, whatever it is. If you DO decide to part out, let the guys on this forum know first so that process will be the most efficient for you.

The location of the photo file (as described by "keiser" above) should be on your computer, not a photo sharing web site. You do not need to use a photo sharing site with this Forum. It retains copies of your attached photos itself. If you are trying to use a link to a photo sharing site there would be different instructions. The easiest way is to get to the spot in your post that you want the photo, click the icon at the top of the window, and proceed using the "from computer" tab of the selection window that comes up. If you are using a photo sharing site, you will need to have copied the URL link to the photo and then use the "from URL" tab. The photo will reside in your post at the place where your cursor was when you clicked the icon. Hope this helps.

Hey Larry... Can you show us any photos of the '36 you are starting with?

That's the way I heard it also. The locking caps are pretty rare, at least from my observation (or lack there of).

There WAS apparently variation on the exact location of the stamped numbers on the frame but ... I still never heard of both numbers being stamped on the same car. I have documentation now of the "Engine Number" being stamped in two different locations on '36's but one was on a 7 Pass Sedan and the other was on a 4 Dr Touring Sedan. So the models may be the reason for the difference. (???) Still waiting on more data to determine that. I will have to wait for "Chrycoman" to clarify I guess. All-in-all, this is still not really answering "thomas1ds"s original question. There seems to be a lack of '35 owners on the Forum. At least we never hear from them much.

That is the correct locking setup for the '36 and the '35 Dodge as known by me. (Could be other years and models too.) Not sure if the key shown is original or a later copy though.

Confused. I never heard that TWO numbers were ever stamped on the same car in the mid '30's model range. I have always been told that the ONLY number stamped on the frame of these mid '30's cars was the "Engine Number". On some model year's cars the numbers are frame stamped in a location where it can be seen fairly easily, like on Ian's '34. Others, like on my '36, need to have the body lifted from the frame an inch or so to see it along the very top outer edge of the frame near the front hangar of the left rear spring. The number here is the original "Engine Number" and is stamped very lightly compared to the photo of the number stamped on Ian's '34.

Is that an "Engine Number" or is it a "Serial Number"? Thanks in advance for clarifying.

Your car is called a "4Dr Sedan". A bit more rare than the "4Dr Touring Sedan" that had a trunk built into the back. Access to your "trunk" is behind the rear seat. From the description given, and the ensuing discussion, I would tend to agree with "Keiser" who stated "someone replaced the fender on the passenger side with a truck fender which had the hole for the spare in it." To check this out, look for a fairly large round hole (also filled) in the fender where the pickup spare tire mount tube would have gone through the fender to the frame which involves about a 2" tubular mounting. If this was a car fender (MUCH more rare), you would see a bit smaller hole in the same general area, where a rod that supports the spare tire would go through from a frame bracket and up to a chromed bracket that went through hole in the body just above the small two inch side trim piece on the cowl. This upper bracket would have attached to a strengthening member inside behind the dash. You will see the holes for this bracket there as they are on all cars but you may also then see repairs to the outer cowl area where THAT hole would have to have been filled also. I would think it to be strange that a "4Dr Sedan" would have sidemounted spares along with the rear mount spare. I do believe there was an option to have a mounting setup for two spares on the back if desired, so why take on the extra expense of adding one sidemount? That idea does not make good sense for a "4Dr Sedan". If this is a truck fender you will also not see the added bracket underneath for the bottom of the long thin rod used on the cars. I'm still thinking this probably is a pickup truck fender used to repair a damaged RF car fender. If you only have access to the original "Engine Number" from the car and not the "Serial Number", that is on a tag on the "A" pillar between the two right front door hinges, then you will be out of luck for getting any info from the "Chrysler Historical Collection". They can (and will) only search for Build Records using the "Serial Number" and not an "Engine Number". But if you find the car's "Serial Number" listed on titling paperwork or any other documents that came with the car you may have a good chance of getting a copy of the "Build Record Card". That will then tell you if the car had any sidemounts, what the original color was, where it was first delivered, the date of manufacture and a bunch of other interesting stuff. It is worth trying to find the "Serial Number" if you can! Attached is a photo set of a '35 Dodge 4Dr Touring Sedan with sidemounts. You can see how the long bar was used to stablize the spare and where the holes would be.

Luke: There's another good example of what I have mentioned before. Don't bother asking for (and paying for) a "decode" of the information on the Build Record Card from Chrysler Historical. Just get the Card copy. That is all you really need. They have the Serial Number posted wrong on the "decode", the manufacture and shipping dates wrong on the "decode", and no apparent information on the paint and trim codes. I see this so often. I am more than a bit surprised at this level of work from a professional Library. Hmmmm. I think guys fron the Forum here can "decode" your Build Record more completely, more accurately and with more detail. You just have to ask.

Exactly! I was giving some thought to what "R.White" mentioned some time back about a product available in the UK that had penetrating oil in it along with a freezing chemical, and thought you could attack this from another direction. You will need a good creeping penetrating oil (like "PB Blaster" or your other favorite), a few tungsten or cobalt drills in 1/8" size, an electronics parts freezing spray (available at Radio Shack or other electronics parts suppliers), gloves, eye protection and your big pry bar. Looking at the photo in "dc-8dave"s post #314, consider this: Drill four small pilot holes in the following manner. Center bore the head end of bolt (#4) at least 1/2" deep if not more. Drill another small hole at an angle toward the center of the bolt in the threaded area that was under the nut or lock washer. Try to angle this as much as you can toward the head of the bolt. Then drill another hole through the side of the thrust washer (#2) until passing through the inner sleeve of the silent block (#5) and just touching the bolt. The last hole will be done the same way into the thrust washer on the opposite end by the threads of the bolt. The first two holes are for applying the freeze spray to the bolt using the supplied freeze spray nozzle pipette. Short one second sprays about 5 seconds apart may be a good way to get as much freezing action on the bolt as possible. BE SURE TO USE GLOVES AND EYE PROTECTION when spraying this cryogenic chemical! The idea is to get the bolt as cold as possible so as to shrink the diameter of the bolt, cracking the rust bond between the bolt and the silent block's inner sleeve. Then, at the two holes in the thrust washers, spray a bit of your favorite penetrating oil (using its nozzle and pipette) into the fracture gaps you have just created in the rust between the bolt and the inner sleeve. Let this sit and soak for a while (as specified in the instructions on the penetrating oil label), and then repeat this whole process a couple times. This expansion, contraction, and oiling should cause a decent amount of the penetrant to get into the rusted area and may then allow you to apply the pressure effectively on the threaded end of the bolt. This is probably one of the most confounding rust issues you may encounter with your car. Good luck!

So "dodge36MA", how is the restoration going? It has been a long time and I was wondering how your late summer driving went in 2012. I was also curious about what you selected to work on so far in 2013. Keep us informed - with photos!

Here's the link: http://forums.aaca.org/f119/1936-dodge-sedan-trunk-hinges-361183.html

So... Does this stuff have a penetrating oil of some type in it also? Or is it just the freezeng agent?Can it be shipped overseas?

etnfrd67, I think you are learning a bunch of things here that took many of us a long time to discover. The multi year generalized Maintenance Manuals (from sources other than Manufacturers specifically) are generalized reference materials. Photos cover the "average" assembly but may not look exactly as the application you have in yoiur particular vehicle. This is particularily true with parts supplied from "outside vendors", as in this case "Lockheed". If these reference materials were speaking about assemblies from a particular vehicle manufacturer (i.e. Dodge) then the info is usually more directly accurate. It is most likely that if you were referring to photos or art shown in a Chrysler Corp. Manual then the diagrams would be more accurate to your car. Another thing you will find is that parts vendors' year and application listings can be rather inacurate at times. I have personally found this to be the case with Bernbaum. These vendors have to scrape this application info from many different sources for many different parts concerning many different makes and models. They do what they can but the accuracy of listings is not gospel. So, considering all this info, I am thinking that the anchors for the fronts are longer than the rears and they sound like they are more shaped like the photo you showed of anchors than those described in the tech manual photo. That would mean that the ones you are working with probably have the "C" or "horseshoe" shaped clips holding the shoes on the anchor bolts that "jpage" is describing. All-in-all, unless you have specific information created by the manufacturer you can run a risk of not having specifically accurate info for your particular application. So take all outside info with a grain of salt and look closely at how your particular car is manufactured while working on it. Take A LOT of photos and slowly make your own "reference material". Also, be sure to buy a set of manufacturer's parts and maintenance manuals for your vehicle as soon as you can after purchasing your car. They will give the most accurate info.