Bullfrog_eng

Thanks again Jesse, sounds good to me. John

Thanks Jesse. Did not think of the top of the windshield, as there was nothing on mine, probably disintegrated years ago. Regarding the rear window seal, I assume that the "U" rubber goes round the glass. Did you use any sealant between rubber and body? John

Thanks Bob. That is what I thought may be the case, but needed confirmation. My rear window fitted OK, but let's just say whoever cut it to size was less than professional, but it looked OK when installed. For front windshield, will follow up with Myers, but could probably get it locally and save on freight if I knew what size. The DA I looked at the other day had obviously incorrect rubber so was no help. Thanks again. John

I am about to tackle the Front and rear windows in my Budd bodied sedan, but I am confused. REAR WINDOW. Had a look at a mate's DA yesterday and his rear window is fitted in with a large rubber extrusion that extends out around the window surround area. It looks quite OK and he says it was in the car when he got it and in good condition, so he re-used it. I seemed to remember that when I removed mine some years ago that it was held in with some sort of calking compound with no rubber, and this was confirmed today when I had a good look at it. However, close examination of the window shows that it is VERY roughly cut to size, so I am thinking that it may have been replaced at some time. So, can anyone tell me how it SHOULD be fitted? FRONT WINDSCREEN. Appears to be sealed around the edges with "T" section rubber, but there is not enough left to really know. Is this correct and if so, how long is the vertical section of the "T"? Hope someone can help. Regards, John

Andrew, certainly does help, particularly the second one that shows where it is attached to the firewall with a screw and bracket, and where it passes the steering column. Many thanks. John

Thanks for that, yes, it all helps. Bearing in mind that mine is right hand drive, I now think that I have a pretty good idea just where it goes. Will check my "pattern" cable (meaning that it is not good enough to use) to make sure it fits before getting a new one made up. My DA was missing the cable when I got it and the one I have I THINK is DA. Now I am happy that I can prove it. John

Many thanks to both of you. I had spent some time looking on the net and the forums and could not find anything that really showed me. The only one that was REALLY clear did NOT show the cable going through that hole, which confused me (which is not hard!!). What you have shown me confirms what I thought MIGHT be correct. Thanks again. John

Please fellas, surely someone with a DA knows. John

Can someone please clarify for me? Trying to route the Speedo Cable from the Speedometer to the Gearbox on my Budd bodied DA sedan, right hand drive (not sure if that makes any difference). Does the cable go through the hole in the firewall indicated in the photo? If so, does it then go to the right or left of the engine. Am getting a new cable made and want to ensure that the cable that I will use for a pattern is correct and will fit where it is supposed to. Also, have seen windscreen glass frame in both paint and chrome. What was available new, or are both possibly correct? Many thanks for any help. John

No, side of chassis is visible and all there is. Means that paintwork has to be better quality than most of us would normally do on a chassis! Nice looking car but. John

The oil filter that Jason modified appears to be the original type as shown in the owners manual. There is another type that has a removable filter that can be cleaned. I have both types, but the “removable filter” type appears so common here that I would assume that it may have been fitted as standard equipment in some cases (for export ?) or fitted early in the life of the car. Glenn Smith (Vintage and Classic Reproductions) has a modified top for this type (listed under his DA catalogue) that takes a modern filter insert. This is what is on my DA. His list price is $265 AU but that is the equivalent to $207 US at the moment due to the exchange rate, still not cheap though. Worth remembering if anyone in US wants Australian goods, now is a pretty good time to buy. The first two photos show the two types with the “removable filter” type dismantled. The third photo shows this type with the Glenn Smith top on my DA. John

Paul, probably not a bad idea, but not right now. More to the point though, I am really only adding to others posts and I have not really rebuilt a STANDARD box myself from scratch, as mine had been modified probably 50 years ago. Still, when winter comes around and I am looking for an inside job, might reconsider. John

Well, now I know. Removed worm using hydraulic bearing puller (note I did not experiment using my best worm!). Note in photo that shaft has key way, although this does not appear to be a removable key, key is part of worm. Worm also has a number of "ridges" on about half of its internal diameter. It is not just a smooth bore. These bite into the shaft, you can see marks on the shaft either side of the key way. Again, this is for DA, not sure of DC8. John

To be honest, I don't know. I assume the worm is pressed onto the shaft, but I have not tried to remove one. I have a few that are seriously unwell, so might have a go at removing one out of interest. John

Well, I have finally got the steering box back together. Yes, I know it has taken a while, but lots of other things got in the way (including two short holidays!!). Some of this may help someone one day, some probably not as it appears my box was modified to take different worm bearings, but here goes anyway. Thanks to idrjoe_sandiego for “Hot Rodding the Gemmer Steering Box”. I have adopted most of what he has described. There is also an article on the web by Bob Carabbio titled “Rebuilding the Gemmer Steering Box”. Although specifically for Model “A” Fords, the boxes are very similar, so much of what he has written is relevant to the Dodge box. Also thanks to robert b for confirming thrust washer thickness and other suggestions. So, here we go. Please note that the part numbers referred to are from the DA Instruction Book and photos are for a right hand drive box. First I modified the box to fit seals, tube, etc., as per idrjoe_sandiego. I then got some bearings to suit my (modified) worm shown previously in this thread. I used NSK 07098 Cones which fitted the Worm with NSK 07196 Cups to fit the steering box housing and steering worm adjuster. Both the housing and adjuster needed machining to accept the cups. This sounded a bit difficult for me so I had it done at a machine shop. When I started to reassemble things, I found the roller bearing cage fouled on both the adjuster and housing. I had to relieve both slightly and as this did not require any great accuracy, I did this myself. Adjuster in the lathe, housing in a pedestal drill using a specially machined locating sleeve and a “practool”, which is a device that uses a lathe tool to cut large diameter holes in plate steel. Won’t go into that any further, as probably will not be relevant to anyone else. Then installed worm with the new bearings and all OK. EXCEPT that the steering shaft was bent. Bob Carabbio talks about this, but as my car had not been in an accident I thought it would not be a problem. WRONG! Anyway, managed to straighten it OK eventually. For the top of the steering column, I turned up, from nylon stock, a “top hat” type bush to accept a bearing SCE1416. This pushes into the steering column jacket (6) and the bearing locates the steering main tube (10). This replaces the steering main tube bushing (5). See photo. Next came the sector shaft. When I installed the seal (as per idrjoe_sandiego), I installed new brass bushes as well. I decided not to go for roller bearings here as the shaft in my opinion was pretty good but may not have been good enough for rollers. I did however replace the Sector Thrust Washer (20) with roller bearings. This was part of the original purpose of this thread. I was unsure of the thickness of the thrust washer. I measured mine and robert b measured one of his and both appeared to be around 140 thou, so I used roller bearing TC1828 with two thrust washers TWA1828. The thrust washers go either side of the bearing and give the bearing a good surface to work on. Total thickness of two washers and bearing is 142 thou, rough enough for me. Therefore the housing requires no machining. The only problem is that the sector shaft has a radius where the thrust washer fits, so the inside diameter of ONE thrust washer (closest to sector itself) must be ground out slightly to allow it to sit flat. I used a die grinder. The bearing itself fits quite OK without modification. See photo. The sector adjusting screw (23) had to be ground flat (Bob Carabbio), then I was ready to assemble. This I did and adjusted (with difficulty) as per the Instruction Book. I was not really happy, the box seemed to have too much play, but decided to install it in the car anyway. After connecting everything up, I convinced myself that it would be OK. That lasted a couple of days, by which time I had convinced myself it would NOT. Note that it is helpful to actually MEASURE the play at the steering wheel rim, going by feel can be deceptive. I tried to adjust it in the car, but that was no more successful. Out came the box. On the bench, I again adjusted as per Instruction Book, but no better. Went back and re-read everything I could find, but no answer. I sat down and thought long and hard about this and it eventually dawned on me that while adjusting the box, when meshing the worm and sector too deep so that it dragged, it was not in the middle. These boxes are designed that when driving in the “straight ahead” position, the play is minimal (where it matters most), but as you turn right or left, the play increases. With mine, from the straight ahead position, if I turned right, the play decreased till it started to drag, turning left did not. Therefore, I was not getting minimum play straight ahead, but to one side. I deduced that the centre of the sector shaft did not line up with the centre point of the worm, in other words, the worm was further toward the bottom of the box to what it should be. This is not explained in the Instruction Book, probably because once adjusted in the factory, it should stay that way for life. But not only was I using a sector shaft that came from a different box, I was using parts that had been machined to take different bearings. The possibility for error was huge. Bob Carabbio hints at this when he talks of care in machining the bottom worm bearing without really saying why. The diagram at the top of his article actually describes the adjustments required, but is not very clear. What is required is to adjust the centre of the sector shaft to be exactly in the middle of the worm. This can be adjusted by the eccentric screw at the bottom of the steering box (see photo). I am not sure just what cars had this adjustment, for example, DA does, mate’s DC8 does not (fixed). In real terms, as per Instruction Book, as you are adjusting for minimal play, turn this eccentric screw back and forth so until you can get drag when wheel is in the straight ahead position. In reality, mine produced drag very slightly EITHER side of straight ahead eventually, but this is OK providing it is even, that is, a little bit to the right and a little bit to the left. But it MUST be even, NOT providing drag ONLY to the right, or left. Once you have achieved this, the sector shaft is central to the worm, so leave the eccentric screw alone, and go through the other adjustments (46) till drag just disappears (this adjusts how deeply the sector meshes with the worm). You should have minimal play in the straight ahead position. In my situation, because so much work had been done to the bearings, even with the eccentric screw fully to the right, it was not quite enough. In hind sight, this means that the bottom worm cup is set a little too far in the housing and should have been shimmed. I compensated by grinding away a little of the housing at the eccentric screw and inserting a 80 thou spacer to move the sector just a bit closer to the bottom of the box. I was now very happy with the adjustment, there is very little play “straight ahead”, less than ¾ inch. I may have lost you through this, it certainly took me a while to get my head around it all. Unless you have mixed parts from other boxes and/or installed non-standard bearings, this should not be necessary. So, back in the car, all connected up and still happy as Larry. End of story? Well, not quite. Filled box with semi fluid grease. After a couple of days, a drop of oil appeared on the ground. After all this, was not happy. Turns out leak was from sector shaft adjusting screw (23). I had not even considered it may leak from there. Put some Teflon tape round screw, and so far so good. If this helps someone some day, good. If you never need to know, even better. John

That's great, now I know what I should be looking for. Thanks also to Manuel for starting this thread. I did not know I should be even LOOKING for rubber for the top of the doors. Learning all the time! John

Excellent. Makes sense now and I now know why the tops of my doors were slightly rusty, just like the photos!!! I gather that the rubber, being sort of T shaped, is held on by that metal, removable panel on the top of the doors? Many thanks, John

Thanks Bob and Nearchoclatetown, look forward to photos. My DA has/had the seals for the windows and the bottoms of the doors but nothing at the top. John

If the body is all steel then it should be a Budd and definitely not Richards. Also very interested in the petrified seals. Where do they attach? Photo will probably show this anyway. John

Are we talking about Budd or Richards bodies? If we are talking Budd, I was not aware they had any. There is no evidence of them on mine or any I have seen. The exception is at the bottom of the doors, where it appears that something like flat insertion rubber or similar was used. This is attached by metal strips, virtually between the door and the door upholstery card, its purpose is to ensure water from inside the door, when exiting the holes in the bottom of the door, does not find its way inside the car. If anyone can tell us the width of these strips, I would much appreciate it. John

Well, I have now got a little bit further with this, but not out of the woods yet. I now think that I was incorrect when I said I thought there were two types of worm bearing and cup. No one has yet given me any part numbers and I have also been dealing with A.A. Bearings in Melbourne. As has been mentioned in this forum before, Denis is very helpful and sent me some bearings to try, but ultimately these were unsuccessful. However, he did hit the nail on the head last week when he suggested that the bearing cones on one of my worms may be removable and therefore show a bearing number. This proved correct and I have ordered some bearings from him this morning. There is a big BUT, however. I now believe that this worm has been specially machined to take these bearings. This must have happened a long time ago, as I have had the car over 40 years and it was derelict when I got it. If anyone can prove or disprove this I would be most interested. Photo shows the "normal" worm on the bottom, my "modified" one on the top. However, there is another "but". The cup for this bearing is too large for the normal steering box housing. As I do not have the housing that this worm belongs to (it's the one I "lost") I cannot confirm this but I intend to have another housing machined to fit as it is only a bit too large. I have not included bearing numbers at this stage as I want to make sure this all works before I muddy the waters. Will let you all know if/when all is sorted out. One thing that I still need to know about is the thrust washer on the sector shaft. Can anyone confirm what it is made of and how thick it should be? John

I am in the process of rebuilding a Gemmer steering box for my DA. I have read the previous posts including “hot rodding the Gemmer steering box”, all have been extremely helpful. However I still have a few queries. If I have missed this information in the posts, my apologies, I have only had a “mans look”. 1. Sector Shaft. I am intending to NOT replace with roller bearings (unless someone talks me out of it) but need confirmation as to the diameter, I think it is the same as the Ford Model A, 1.123 ish inches. It would appear that bushes are readily available. More importantly to me, what do I use as a thrust on this shaft. It seems that in the DA they used a leather seal, model A seems to use a brass washer. What and how thick should I use? Where from? 2. Worm Bearings and Cups. As I understand it, there are two types (as with Ford), with different width rollers and different angles. I have enough parts to use either if necessary, but I have no part numbers for either option and my local bearing suppliers are in “unhelpful” mode. Are they the same as the Model A ( I am not sure of the dimensions of them)? Does anyone have a bearing or cone number for either option? Finally, you may as well have a laugh at my expense (take note Taylormade, if you read this). I shifted house some time ago, but after I had partially dismantled the steering box of my car. I have the shaft, steering wheel with controls, and worm, but no box or sector shaft. It is in my shed but for the life of me I cannot find it. Having spent a week off and on looking, I have finally given up. It will no doubt turn up when I no longer need it. However, I do have another three boxes, all in poor condition but I think I will be able to salvage enough to build a reasonable box. The worm that I have from my car is in good condition, as are the bearings, but I have no cups. So, don’t shift house, or at least be more careful than I was. Thanks for any help. John

Seeing that is a week since you posted this query, you have probably worked it all out by now, but just in case, a photo of my DA latch which MAY be similar. With my DA, only the top is chromed, the rest is painted. However I decided that I wanted to zinc plate the shaft so that it would not rust. To remove it and get to the way it is in the photo you need to drill out the large brass rivet that goes through the large hole in the shaft. I then used a suitable piece of brass rod to replace it when I reassembled it, peening over both ends as per the original rivet - not easy, but turned out OK. My hood catches were in pretty bad shape, had to use a lot of heat (oxy) to dismantle them, and dismantled about 10 of them to get enough good bits to make 4. Your photo looks pretty good, so pulling them to bits may not be too bad. Good luck,John

Len, my first reply went astray, so if I finish up posting twice, I'm sorry. Glen Smith makes reproduction parts. I have one of his bases and float chamber tops on a carbi I rebuilt some time ago. Not cheap, but good product. He is in Australia, but should not be a problem. His web site http://www.vintageandclassicreproductions.com/ Good luck. John

Getting back to the ball on the steering arm, some time ago I had one repaired for the DA. The engineering company made a hardened steel ball then turned down the arm so that the ball slid over the taper they had turned, then SILVER SOLDERED it onto the arm. Have not had the car on the road yet (can't rush these things!!!) so cannot vouch for reliability, but they had apparently done a lot that way. I believe they used silver solder so that it was not necessary to get the arm and particularly the hardened ball as hot as would be required for welding or brazing. John