pvmw

Spotted on PreWarCar https://www.prewarcar.com/235393-maxwell-prototype-1901-advice-welcome-what-is-it

I have a 1916 Model 25 which is slowly undergoing restoration/rebuild to be a speedster. The engine was complete, had compression and looked to be OK - but I thought I'd at least drop the sump and have a look inside before trying to start it. My first discovery was a sock inside it! A black one. Unfortunately only one, so not a great deal of use for its intended purpose. How on earth did it get there? This did make me concerned enough to get a torch and look up the bores, at which point I couldn't be quite sure what I was seeing so removed the head and extracted the pistons/rods....................... At some time in the past someone had fitted aluminium pistons, which had a slightly higher crown height. The solution to this was, to put it mildly, novel. All the conrods showed signs of heat and had a "bulge" about half way down. It would appear that they had been put in a press, heated and then "squashed" until they were the correct length. If I could post a photo I would. Whoever did it, presumably a blacksmith with large muscles and small brain, was skilled at what he did - every rod was true with aligned big and little ends which is quite an achievement. The pistons were new, so it would appear it was never run subsequently. Opinion was split about 50:50 amongst those I asked (including a couple of metallurgists) as to whether it was safe to use them but I thought it too much of a risk so replaced them. I've never seen the like before.

the trouble with that is that they will be the same as the old rods before they were modified - too long. I need to either find/make a set of rods that are the same length as the "modified" ones. or replace the pistons.

Thanks for that. The journal dia. fits, but if the overall length is different then maybe the centre to centre dimension is different. I'll need to find out what it is. I don't think the factory would have done anything quite as messy as shown in the photo below. All the rods have been done , but all are different so they weren't done on a jig or anything like that. It is hard to believe, but I think someone must have done it to be able to use new alloy pistons.

I wondered if someone might advise me................... I'm restoring a 1916 Maxwell, and recently dropped the sump for a look inside. I found two strange things, The first was a sock. OK, its a sock. I can live with that! The second was that all the rods had been shortened at some time in the past by heating them and then compressing them, such that there is a bulge in the middle. Quite bizarre, I've never seen anything like it. I suspect it was done when someone changed the pistons to alloy, the crown height was different so the rods were shortened - apparently by a blacksmith of large biceps and small brain (tho' to be fair, to have got them all the same length and true in both axes is quite an achievement). However, I don't want to risk using them so I'm looking for an alternative. I first thought Model A, the length (7 1/2 inches) is about right but the journals are too small. However, I think the Model B rod has 1 7/8 inch Big Ends which would be very close. Could someone please tell me the dimensions of a Model B rod, length between centres, big end and small end journal diameter and big end width? Thanks.

You probably won't want to hear this, but in my experience replacement CWP gears are not available. I had a similar problem with the car that is my current project. My solution was to have a new set machined, using the old ones as a patttern. I used a very good specialist gear company in Birmingham in the UK, and they made me a new Crownwheel, pinion and pionion shaft in about 2 weeks. Not exactly cheap - about £1100 total - but when you consider it was a one off bespoke item made to pattern I thought not bad. At the time he said that if I could find customers for a bulk order of 5 sets, he would be able to do them at about £500 to £600 each, but I couldn't generate any interest. If your crownwheel is OK, they might just make you a pinion gear and match it to the CW, but I'd replace both - they ware made in the same factory with the same materials so if one is broken I wouldn't like to trust the other. I imagine similar companies exist where you are, but if you get desperate I can give you their details.

I have the engine and chassis number, and the necessary paperwork containing those numbers to get the car registered. First I have to get a declaration from Customs that any necessary import duties have been paid. I have a purchase receipt and a copy of the original shipping invoice so that will be sufficient to satisfy C&E. I was curious as to what the number quoted on the Florida document might be, although it is stated as the VIN on the form it isn't a chassis number as the format is completely wrong. I'm not going to send C&E a copy as it may simply cause confusion, and it isn't necessary to give it to them, but I wondered if anyone could tell me what it is. I also have a small metal plate a few inches long with the number stamped on it that was included in the documents that came with the car. I'm guessing some sort of body number or build number - but does anyone else have something similar attached to their car?

Hi all, I have been, for the last 5 years, slowly restoring a 1916 Maxwell which was imported into the UK in 1990 by a previous owner. Its getting closer, and so I thought it was time to register it with the UK licencing authorities. This is proving much harder and more stressful that building the car in the first place! They have now passed me to the UK Customs and Excise as they need proof that import duties have been paid. I have a copy of the original importers invoice, and also a copy of a form called "Owners Vehicle Identification Affidavit" from the State of Florida Department of Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles. On this form the vehicle identification number is stated to be 301-30-0049. This bears no resemblance to the chassis number which is just 6 digits (and dates the car as late 1916). My question, to which someone may know the answer, is what is the number on the form? Is it something anyone recognises? The reason I ask is that I can see a problem with some bureaucrat if they notice that the chassis number and the number on this form differ. The more evidence I can provide the better, but if it is contradictory it might be better if I didn't include it.

This is a link to an advert in the "The Herald", Carroll, Iowa from Wed. April 24th 1918 which refers to it; http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=2288&dat=19180424&id=Y8UnAAAAIBAJ&sjid=1QQGAAAAIBAJ&pg=3613,936550 Warning - serious distraction from the task in hand may be encountered. I now know that a farmer has discovered that you can gas moles using the exhaust from his motor car, an attempt to increase the price of wheat to 2.50 dollars/bushel was defeated in the Senate and that little Fern Maeke, who has been quite ill with pneumonia, has been improving and will be able to leave hospital shortly!!!!

Hi, A quick question (it needs to be quick, for reasons that will follow)....... The reconstruction of the 1916 Maxwell proceeds - rather slower than I'd planned - to the point where I have planks of ash and a bandsaw in operation. On the watch for appropriate fittings, I've spotted a rather nice period speedo in an auction tomorrow (wednesday). I can't get the time off work so I've left a bid on the phone - and then got to thinking. The propshaft is enclosed in a torque tube. I can't from memory (I'm at work and can't check) think of any gearbox fitting that might drive it, there is no gear on a front wheel as is sometimes done, do my question is:- I have several photos of complete cars, and at least one of them clearly shows a speedo, with a drive cable disappearing through the floor. To what is is connected, and does anyone have an example of a speedometer fitted to their car? Thanks in advance

you might try asking these people;- Richards Bros - Vintage Wire Wheels If they don't stock what you need they can make them. Not cheap, but not actually as expensive as you might think Paul

Hi Howard, I got the e-mails thanks, you should have a reply by now. Looking at the sun/planet gears though the available holes they look OK, so I'm tempted not to disturb the diff. cage. I saw your earlier posting about front wheel bearings, and the moment I saw the Hyatt roller bearings I knew they weren't going to come off the shelf. At the moment they look OK - they are big enough after all. Compared to the CWP I don't think bearings will be to much of a problem. With the fronts, it depends whats worn. The fact they are cup and ball (a la bicycle) makes having them made possible I think. I've already had a friend with a machine shop turn me up a similar outer cup for a 1921 Rover I have. Alternatively, and a better solution, would be to machine out th inside of the hub to take a pair of modern thrust races, and if necessary turn down or sleeve the stub axle to fit. I think I'd prefer to sweat a sleeve on it if necessary rather than reduce the diameter. At least the lack of front wheel brakes means the loading on the bearings/hub is minimal If those big Hyatt rollers need replacing, then a bit of thought will be needed, but I'm sure things could be modified to take modern bearings again. As an aside, I think the Model T uses Hyatt roller bearings, I assume you've looked and they are different? I'll follow up on you contact, and I'll let you know how I get on with bits cheers Paul

hi Howard, its turning into a long evening, downloading all the pages of handbooks etc you pointed me at. I know from experience that a CWP for my Frazer Nash, which is spiral bevel, is about £400 - but the club has them made in some numbers. As the Maxwell is straight cut I don't expect it'll be too hard to find a gear cutting company who'll make me one. One-off prices will be quite a lot more, but it should still be viable and modern design knowledge and materials should mean they are stronger. The comment about "long legs" is encouraging as well, I'd thought it looked quite high geared - I think it works out at about 25mph/k revs in top and I'd think the engine should rev to 3k or so. 75 mph should be enough with those brakes!!! It sounds like there might be some other owners out there who might be interested in CWPs. I have contacts in the old car restoration community in the UK and I'll start asking around tomorrow, but if you can pass the message on to any other owners you know it might bring prices down to get several sets made. Also, If anyone else seeing this is interested please get in touch cheers Paul

Wow!! Overwhelmed with information, I've got some reading to do. Back to my current problems......... Remembering your comment about rear axles I took it apart this evening - and ouch. The crown wheel is not good, there are chunks of the outside of the edge of the teeth missing and several appear to have been "repaired" with weld. However, no problem is insoluble. Being straight cut I don't see a problem with having a new CWP made, but that raises another question.... . I had hoped to get it going to see what the gearing was like before replacing bits, but if I'm going to make one should I consider higher gearing? Its going to have the minimum of bodywork - rather like the photos of the speedster you found me - so if its light do you think it could use a higher top gear? As I'm unlikely to ever find one in the UK I can have a drive of, I'm going to have to ask anyone who has experience of one. So, can you give me any idea of what the current top speed is, and whether it could pull a higher top. I reckon the engine would probably be capable of 3k revs, but can you tell me what sort of revs it runs out of puff at? cheers Paul

You are absolutely right. A couple of fresh batteries in the torch and scrub with a wire brush and the chassis number is 108588, I'd expect engine numbers to be higher than chassis, which makes it likely the engine isn't the original - but that is hardly surprising after 95 years. The back axle is fitted, and I tried re-attaching the torque tube last night. Not a successful mating, far too much into mesh, so it looks like someone has been there before me and things are going to have to be dismantled and re-assembled correctly. Ah well, things were going too well. With your previous warning about axles in my ears I'm going to be careful to get it right and give it the best chance possible. Paul

Howard, thanks very much, that's just what I was after. It wouldn't have thought of looking there. I've scraped off the paint I've just applied, and the chassis number is 10858, engine no. 107687. Is there any record of chassis numbers against date of manufacture that you know of? All quite encouraging. I'm on a promise of a spare engine and gearbox, which I'll get in a few weeks with any luck, After your earlier warning its a pity there isn't a spare back axle as well!!!! thanks again, I'll report on progress - when there is any worth reporting on. Paul

Well........ there has been some progress. I'm reckoning to having it on its wheels within a week or so, at the moment I'm applying paint to the chassis before I fit hubs and wheels. I have one question someone may be able to help me with. While painting the chassis I kept an eye out for any numbers that might be stamped on it. I didn't find any, tho' there is a number stamped on the front axle (I haven't cleaned the paint off yet but it looks like it might be 52892) Does anyone know is there is / should be a number stamped anywhere?? There is also a number (I think its 5874-A) on the rear engine bearer. Do these numbers mean anything to anyone??

Thanks for that, there is useful info there. If the crown wheel and pinion is a known weak point that's worth knowing. It doesn't put me off completely, as there are people in the UK who will make one-off CWP for a not outrageous price. One of the reasons I asked what sort of revs would be fair on the engine was that I had in the back of my mind the idea of a higher ratio axle. It may also as you suggest be possible to modify something like Model T to fit. Don't worry about short inglorious death. If I make this work then it'll be a regular competitor. The VSCC in the UK are very keen to see Edwardian cars being used, so it'll have plenty of playmates – the existing cars in my shed might get a bit jealous tho!!! The photo is great, that is the sort of style I was imagining. The driver looks quite cute as well, but if that is her mother sitting in the passenger seat...........!!!! I'm going to have a look at the bits, then I'll have a better idea about it. Any more pics like the first would be great, if I'm going to do this I might as well try to get it as close as I can to a proper style.

<meta http-equiv="CONTENT-TYPE" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><title></title><meta name="GENERATOR" content="OpenOffice.org 3.1 (Win32)"><style type="text/css"> <!-- @page { margin: 2cm } P { margin-bottom: 0.21cm } --> </style> I'm after some info. From the thread title it might be guessed by an astute reader that I'm contemplating buying the mortal remains of a 1916 Model 25. Mechanically its all there, but bodily it isn't. My thoughts are to create a light "speedster" style vehicle with two seats, bolster tank and simple body to do some light vintage competition. it won't be my first attempt at body creation, so I'm fairly confident I could do a passable job. I really want to know what performance I might expect. I know that the engine is approx. 3L and rated at 25bhp AT 1700rpm. It should be much lighter than with the standard body, so should go quite well, but is geared at about 30mph/k revs. The question it comes down to is what will the engine comfortably rev to - two bearing crank and all? I've had a hunt of the web, but there is so much stuff out there that any pointers (tech. details, photographs etc) would be appreciated. I did try following the thread below titled "Maxwell racers", but it seemed to be a bit of a red herring