Gunsmoke

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Everything posted by Gunsmoke

  1. Thanks for this perfect ijnformation, it is pretty much everything I need to answer my questions. I was interested in seeing you have both types of front springs, including one with the shock eliminator, I have never seen one of those except in the parts book. Some minor challenges remain for me, the underside of the flats for my axles have the nut/washer areas recessed into the casting (this area is flat on yours), making it a bit more problematic to place a shock mount. I will likely just place a spacer as necessary to raise that surrface sufficient to allow a shock plate. This explains why 2 of the front ubolts were longer than the other 2. Regarding the shackles I showed initially, I understand figure 8 types these were standard for Chryslers of 1931, they used the so called "silent blocks" that year, designed to give a quiet ride, similar to the blocks shown in your front springs. The second type you show are similar to the shackle pin style used on my '31 Chevrolet and I see those shown diagramatically in the Chrysler parts book for other models, but not for CD8's I spoke with some knowledgeable Mopar guys today and they suggested if the rear "silent blocks" are still tight and flexible, even if they are 85 years old, that I just leave them, and down the road if they become a problem, deal with it then. So I am thinking I will go that way, as all 6 blocks (4 Rear-rear, and 2 front-rear) are sound. I will clean up the cracked rubber washer/seals, sand blast and paint, and let the next guy worry about these 80 years from now! Thanks again for your great help. Sites like this are so valuable to vintage car restorers.
  2. I am disassembling the suspension pieces for my '31 Chrysler CD8 Roadster, the car was rebuilt in 1952 using whatever was available, so I am somewhat blindly forging ahead. I have a few questions 1. The shackle bolts in the rear and the bushings/silent blocks, appear to be original and bolts are siezed in bushings. Any advice on just how to free up the bolts so they can be knocked out and then advice on how to press the bushings out. I believe I can get replacement bushings/blocks and bolts locally (Parts for Trucks outlet). 2. The front springs have had some relatively minor modifications made to them which I can clean up. My primary ?'s are how to properly fit them to the axle pad, it is dead flat while bottom of spring is curved? Was there some sort of curved saddle they sat in originally? Or were original springs flat at center point (these springs appear to have had a short curved extra leaf added to bottom). 3. Also I note axle pad (I believe axle is from a '33 Chrysler) has no extra hole for securing a shock absorber? Any thoughts? 4. The U bolts were bolted directly onto springs with no means on top of spring of holding the bolts from sliding potentially. Most applications I have seen show some sort of clip/saddle fitted over the center bolt that holds the U bolts. This piece also often has a rubber bumper in some cases. Anyone know what I am supposed to have here? 5. While rear springs appear to be original CD8, the rearend is from a '34/35 Auburn. I may swap it out. My question is whether the spring mounting plate through which the U bolts fasten appears to be proper Chrysler CD8? It has a hole for fixing a shock absorber arm, the brackets are possibly mixed left versus right, not a big deal. I don't have a proper rear end yet so don't know if Chrysler axle housing is same diameter as the Auburn one at this point?
  3. My barn find '31 CD8 Roadster has nothing left of its original floor/sill construction, except for a couple of 12" lengths of thin steel flat s near cowl, out as far as end of toe board. everything else was hand built very rough by a PO in the 50's using 1.5x1.5 steel angle iron along both sides, shaped to space about 1/4" off frame and 3/32" steel plate floor from seat back to rear. Area under seat was open when I got car. I have the original toe board and the transmission cover. So my question is does any one know what the floor/sill construction was for these CD8 Roadsters, and better still, anyone have any pictures or diagrams showing how they were made and fitted? I see in the DB site that a DC8 Roadster had a substantial wood sill system sitting on frame rails. I'm considering using a modified version of that for the CD8. However, if I had a good idea of how the CD8 floor/sills were built, I may try that. Helpful advice always appreciated.
  4. Nice complete re-chromed pair sold on eBay last week or so, only about $1500 for the pair!
  5. That is a very nice frame (year/model?) and looks strong. I was surprised at how "flimsy" the CD8 ladder style frames are. For a 124" WB car, there was not much to prevent twisting except the engine, and for sedans, perhaps the body as demonstrated in some of the marketing videos of the time. The crossmembers are of pretty thin material. I know many european race-bred cars used a 4 point solid mounted engine as the primary means of eliminating chassis twisting.
  6. Firstly, the Cadillac Flathead with a LaSalle transmission was mounted much further rearward, and had its own homemade mounts/crossmembers, rough and since discarded. The engine mounting points shown in pictures are original and riveted to chassis. The '31 Deluxe CD8 Engine I have has the same yoke/cradle affixed to timing chain area as shown in the picture you attached. It is bolted solidly to block, as originally designed. As you may know, when Dodge (1930) and later Chrysler (1931 forward) began using the straight 8, vibration problems were a technical and marketing issue. I understand the early Dodges (2&7/8" bore) relied on the 2 front mounts and the 2 rear mounts only, and later added a transmission mount as well. Chrysler introduced the intermediate cross member and later stiff extra "crossmember brackets" and a " steady rest" to try and eliminate the vibration issue, especially as the horsepower increased as bore rose to 3.25", and higher cruising speeds were possible. Eventually they went to a different support up front, the so called pendulum system. In '31, the 4 point engine mounting and intermediate braced crossmember (effectively a 5th point mount) allowed the engine to substantially stiffen the rather weak ladder style chassis, which was prone to twisting. Later Chrysler went to the X-frame which solved the twisting problem somewhat and alowed a 3 point mounting of engine. TMI perhaps, but knowledge of these technical developments has been hard to find for me, and thank goodness we have some knowledgeable Chrysler/Dodge guys who have been willing to share this info with me. I expect nailing down the engine in its final proper spot will require some precision fitting of the 3 rear mounting parts, the 2 side pieces and the steady-rest, (to achieve minimum vibration, good alignment with rearend, and effective stiffening of chassis), and even then the original vibration issue will likely still show up at 80MPH!!
  7. As indicated in opening post, the original front engine mount points are still on the chassis (see pic, with some additional steel plate which was added by a PO, since removed), so other than rubber washers (which I am told should be about 3/16" thick, one above and one below the mount with steel washers top and bottom), that end should be OK. I've secured the siderail brackets firmly to rails (without the bell bracket part), and plan to set engine and be3ll housing in place to see just how things look. The frame has had a lot of modifications, but generally straight, and other than the missing oil pan support crossmember, most parts are with car or can be easily made. Hope to lower engine into car tomorrow, I'll post a picture if it looks OK
  8. I bolted the intake manifold to the block and sure enough there is a slight angle difference between carb mounting spot and alignment of head/block, somewhere around 5 degrees down toward rear. I'm thinking I will set chassis level on 4 jack stands (difficult to know where level is on these chassis fore/aft as virtually all of side rails are curved. Would try using axle ends, but car has no load on chassis so springs are not under load. I think the short stretch of frame where door opens is normally horizontal so door verticals are plumb. Once jackstands are level all around, I'll set block on rubber washers on front mounts and lower it gently until carb mounting face is horizontal and see if that looks about right. I'll then put an adjustable jackstand under oil pan support bracket and assess next steps. The confirmation measurements from Maryland Rob (Vintchry) will seal the deal.
  9. Thanks Rusty for the tip regarding the 7 degrees and the carb mount. My barnfind has been substantially modified, and while I am trying to bring it back to something resembling original '31 CD8 Roadster specs, it is quite a challenge since so many parts are missing and what is left is also altered here and there. When I get the dimensions from Rob in Maryland for the brackets, I will make some and hopefully when installed will allow engine to sit where you suggest, with a slight tilt to rear.
  10. The photo of brackets I showed above are from a colleague in Maryland. The rubber in my side mounts seems in very good condition and brackets have no rust. The CD8's have a heavy crossmember under rear of oil pan as shown and it rests engine weight on a rubber steady rest/pad. I have no idea if it was intended to take full weight of back end of engine/transmission (perhaps 300 lbs) and then side brackets were tightened or what the ideal assembly process was. I gather this method evolved over a series of attempts to eliminate/reduce vibration. By this method, the side mounts are less under load. They keep engine in place and assist in preventing vibration, as well as stiffening the chassis generally. Similar to DC8 Dodge, they bolt to ends of bell as shown in above illustration. My thinking now is that I will bolt up bell and the transmission and align the output shaft with centerline of hole in crossmember. and pull a string through to rearend and see what alignement looks like. The parallel rule makes sense so U-joints are working equally and whole assembly is more or less balanced and in-line.
  11. I am getting ready to set a '31 Deluxe CD8 engine in the chassis of my barnfind Roadster. The intermediate cross member it is supposed to sit on at rear (on a rubber center steady rest) is missing, and the 2 rear engine mounts which bolt to bell housing were missing when I got car (a PO had installed a Flathead '47 Cadillac engine). I now have the 2-rear mount outer pieces which bolt to the side rails in original holes. However I need to make the inner parts of these 2-piece brackets, pieces which rise up to suit proper location of bellhousing. So my question is: Does the engine sit more or less horizontal fore/aft when installed originally? I have 3/16" rubber washers to put under front mounts, so front should be just where it belongs. My plan is to set engine with bell attached in chassis, temporarily bolt front and cearefully lower rear until fore/aft alignment is right and then make the bellhousing brackets and crossmember to suit. These are pictures of the required crossmember and side brackets for your ease of understanding the query.
  12. The earliest CD8 models began production in late summer of 1930, as 1931 models and I understand production continued through out 1931, with some cars being sold into 1932 perhaps. Chrysler did not have an 8 cylinder 1930 Model, while Dodge had the DC8. I recently acquired a somewhat tattered but complete CD8 manual, after a lot of searching. It is dated September 1930. The Deluxe CD8 Series began in late spring 1931, likely had its own manual.
  13. Mystery solved. A member kindly sent me this photo of his Deluxe CD8 setup, the piece is part of the rear engine suppport sandwich shown here. Not sure if the rubber was vulcanised to one of the steel pieces or held in place by screws thru lower plate as shown here. The crossmember shown is missing from my car's chassis (when a foreign engine was installed in 1952), so I guess I'll have to get one fabricated unless one of you has a spare.
  14. No one has given their suggestion for this "add-on, so here's my thought. These engines are a challenge to mount on an engine stand due to the sheer weight cantilevered from one end and the load that places on the "ears" of the block where bell mounts. So a jack stand at front of engine is advisable. However, if one has the pan off (to work on internals), then by putting a part like this "add-on" after oil pan is removed, one has a support for a jack stand at this end. So in essence this is not a car part, but rather a servicing tool, which has been left in place. That might explain why this "add-on" is not listed in Chrysler Master Parts list. Any old mechanics out there have a view? I don't see any evidence it could be used for much else. I considered it may be intended to go on other end of pan to protect pan from rocks etc, but the lowest part of the pan goes 2-3" lower than this plate. So......?
  15. Here are photos of the mentioned "reinforcing/protection/mounting plate on underside of '31 Chrysler Deluxe CD8 engine.
  16. My car came to me from a barn with the exterior handles shown in photos. It had no interior door handles (parts book does not list an interior door handle for 1st, 2nd series Roadsters but does list part #335924 as interior handle for deluxe series roadsters). Anyway, does anyone have photos or other evidence which can tell me what the 1st/2nd series Roadsters used on inside, and also tell me/show me what exterior handles were on Roadster. My car has escutchion holes at 1.5" cneters, and corresponding reinforcing plate on inside skin of doors (non-suicide doors)
  17. Bought a Deluxe CD8 Engine recently and I notice it has a heavy steel "over the pan" piece at rear of oil pan, looks like it might be a mounting bracket/support of some sort, fastened to block with the pan bolts. I don't see a similar part on my earlier CD8 Series1 block/pan. I know a crossmember runs side to side under the engine in this area and wondered if anyone knows whether the Deluxe Series used the cross member as an additional support for the engine, perhaps to reduce vibration? On the early car they used 4 point mounts, 2 at front and 2 at rear via bell housing. the Deluxe engine raised the horsepower 33% or so, and so I thought an additional center bracket might reduce torgue winding. Anyone know?
  18. Thanks Rob. This engine was rebuilt a while ago, pistons are 60 thou oversized, so I suspect valve seats were ground and valves as well back then. I plan on taking engine to a rebuilder and see what he suggests, he may prefer to install steel seats rather than grind block again (he does that on Model A blocks), and may then opt to use existing valves (I have a very good set of all 16 valves from an earlier block version Dodge DG8 with the smaller intake valves) if he can clean and refit them without having sharp edges on valves (which causes valve burning). If he was putting new steel seats in, he might suggest just using same size valves for intake and exhaust, would only slightly affect engine performance I suspect. I see Egge has full refit kits available for this engine, I'm hoping I only need intake valves and gasket kit, but won't know until rebuilder has a good look.
  19. I am interested in a set of valves for a '31 Chrysler Deluxe CD8 engine, this one has the 3.25" cylinder bore, may match later years?. Especially need intake valves if anyone has a set, don't need to be perfectly new, but good used ones would do if not already ground. Or does anyone know who might sell these retail? I note intake valve is larger then exhaust, like about 1.5" intake, versus about 1&3/8" exhaust. Thanks.
  20. It appears all valves are in fact working on this engine. I guess I didn't realize how many times you need to turn the flywheel before they all get their turn, I guess 2 full revolutions, or is it more? Anyway, they all go up, some stick open but will go down with a tap. As suggested I olied all the stem/guides for now, will need to pull all the valves for evaluation if they are useable. Engine is sitting on floor right now, plan to mount it to engine stand soon and pull pan to check the lower half. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that it can be used "as is" for now with a complete change of lubricants, flushing cooling channels, and checking oil pump operation etc. I'm used to the pretty detailed info on the VCCA site (Vintage Chevrolet Club of America) for restoring my '31 Chevrolet 2 door Coach, Bill Barker there has a site exclusively dedicated to '31 Chevs, and it is invaluable to restorers. Does anyone know of a site where a solid dose of '31/32 Chrysler restoration tech stuff might be found, other than this site, which I find very enjoyable, but not heavily used. Thanks for all the assistance so far.
  21. I have a '31 Chrysler Deluxe CD8 engine recently purchased and have been assessing its rebuildability. Removed side pans, all internal valve train looks fine, well oiled, removed head and 7 of 8 cylinders look good, one was missing a spark plug in head, so there is some surface rust on that cylinder. Used a power bar to turn engine over at flywheel end, and it turned easily but I then noticed 5 of the intake valves are not moving, appear to be stuck in head. I am concerned as the rest of the 16 valves rise and fall as expected, although a couple have stuck in up position. My concern is whether cam shaft might have gotten damaged by the frozen/stuck valves. Do I have a major issue on my hands? I'm a newbie on flatheads who restored a '31 Chevy 6cyl a couple of years ago, but it had O/H valves with pushrods. I presume "freeeing up" all the valves should have been a first step before attemptingb to turn flywheel?
  22. I purchased a 2 ton engine stand from Princess Auto franchise, looks to be plenty sturdy for the Chrysler straight 8, has two legs extending out front about 30". My next question is whether the Chrysler CD8 block is designed sufficiently strong to be suspended by one end, i.e. are the cast "ears" where the bell housing bolts to engine strong enough to withstand the cantilevered weight of the engine, I'd hate to crack off an ear!. As I see it, the engine without head/oil pan and flywheel probably weighs about 400 lbs, and with an average of 1.5 foot cantilever/leverage, places about 600lbs of pull on the upper 2 bolts in a normal hook-up, or about 300 lbs per top bolt. I see there are 2 bolts that secure the starter linkage a little higher up and they thread directly into the block and might be useable as well. Those bolts I think are 7/16". Any one ever hung one of these suckers by one end? I may try it that way and place a steady jack under front of engine, resting on legs of engine stand for insurance while I work on it. Advice needed for a novice engine builder. depending on what I find as I disassembel it, I may eventually send it all to a pro, but would like to disassemble myself before hand, perchance it only needs light refurbishing rather than a full rebuild.
  23. I like the look of this setup, while it may be a bit overkill, it does not seem to hard to achieve for the piece of mind. I will likely be working on my CD8 engine for a few months, so rather be safe than sorry. thanks for suggesting this old thread. Gunsmoke
  24. Any suggestions on an engine stand for working on a '31 Chrysler CD8 flathead. these are pretty heavy engines, even when stripped of externals. I see several commercial "1000 lb" units for sale, most say will take V8's which are quite a bit shorter than the 36" long flatheads.
  25. As per an earlier thread, this barnfind CD8 Roadster, which was heavily modified in 1952, has a '34/'35 Auburn/Columbia rearend and from photos, I have had it confirmed that all the rear wheel setup is '34/35 6 cyl Auburn. As seen in photos, the front drums match the Auburn rear drums (5 bolt at 5" centers) and I have confirmed they are Auburn. However as seen, the front brake shoe setup and backing plate appears to be '33/34 Chrysler model CO. That leads me to seek advice here on whether the hub/axle is likely Chrysler CO as well, based on looking at illustrations in parts book I don't see an alternative. It is interesting that the '34/'35 Auburn front drum seems to fit very well over the Chrysler CO hub/brakes, bearings seem ideal fit. Can anyone offer opinion on my conclusion, does axle appear to be of '33/34 Model CO vintage? Car ran for about 20 years (1952-1972) with these components before being " barned".