Hudsy Wudsy

Greg, the ad doesn't say. The thing with frames in general is that they are mostly all the same. The differences mostly lie in the suspension. Usually you'll find different springs for different body styles (coupes, two doors, etc.) You also find different rear end gearing because of different options - stick transmissions, automatics, etc. With later cars it was common to find additional bracing in the frames of convertibles because their bodies much more prone to flexing. Of course with many brands of cars, the actual length of the frame will differ between standard models and deluxe ones. You won't be able to use a Dodge frame, even though it's nearly identical, because Dodges are a couple of inches longer than Plymouths. I guess that I'll go on to say that I, personally, wouldn't pass up a decent sedan frame just because the springs would be a little stiffer. Others may differ with me, though.

I've been posting an awful lot lately, so I really apologize if I'm being a nuisance. It's just that I came across this beautiful '40 Dodge on my local Craigslist and wanted to share it with anyone who might be looking for a prewar car. I don't know what is a correct price for one like this, but it sure looks like something that a guy could load his family into and enjoy right away this summer for $9,000. It's simply immaculate. http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/hnp/cto/5054640496.html

There's a complete '39 frame here in the Twin Cities for sale for $350. It's not correct for your '38, in that it has coil spring independent front suspension, rather than the tube axle and leaf springs that yours has. Perhaps someone else following this thread can use it, though. BTW, does anyone know off hand what the gearing is in this rear end? I guess that my point is that when you find a correct frame, you probably wont have to pay a lot for it. http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/wsh/pts/5062248379.html

C Carl, that's quite a quaint image you paint.

It's possible that the trim is there, but that would make Keiser 31 and me both wrong. I'm sorry, but I strongly differ with you about this being a transitional model. '35s and '36s look very similar, but have many differences.

Geez, thanks again to all of you guys for the great tips. I really look forward to using them. I'm kind of an old guy, so a lot computer related thinking doesn't come naturally to me.

I was hoping that you would be be the one to get it. To the very best of my knowledge, the only '36s that had round lower windshield corners were converts and trucks (including woodies). So what we are looking at in the picture is undoubtedly a '35 (with round lower windshield corners) with a '36 P2 front end mounted on it. The one thing not P2 about it is that the headlights don't have the stainless trim ring, which makes them the same as those which came on a P1. In order to create interest among the buying public early on, it was probably necessary to cobble together what ever was available for publicity photos as long as it resembled the finished product. I'm not the expert that you are, John, so it tickles me that I was able to stump you, even if it was just for a couple of hours. Your prize is a pat on the back. Let me know the next time you are going to be Minnesota!

I'd love to have that blue '36 convert. If I owned it, though, it wouldn't have '35 headlights and tail lights, and way too many bumper guards (did you see the rear bumper?). It's funny how some people will always "gild the lily", even when good taste dictates that the "lily" was nearly perfect when it left the factory!

I think that belt line molding, which truly does look to be stainless, is actually a pair of white pin stripes. Here's a pic of it from another angle: http://www.remarkablecars.com/main/plymouth/1936-plymouth-002.jpg

Don't feel bad, John. Your knowledge is vast compared to mine. I have a great fondness for '35-'39 Chrysler products, so I know them pretty well. Nevertheless, while I've seen this photo before a few times, it was only today that I realized there was something quite laughably wrong about it. I'm going to let a few hours pass, so that some others can get a chance to weigh in on it. I'm sure that by tonight, someone will see what I'm talking about.

The Plymouth sedan in the picture has a somewhat heavy handed beltline double pin stripe. I do think that the car and the strip are original factory colors, but I'm thinking that this particular stripe color is a particularly dominant one, however. It still shows quite well on the rear wheel. It does look like a stainless molding somewhat on the hood, but I don't think that it really is. I've never seen a Plymouth with stainless, but I'll take your word for it if you have other pictures which show stainless moldings on Plymouths. Still, I bet that they were never the real production models that reached the market. (Hint: Just like this one?)

I'd recommend the very nice folks at Northwestern Auto Supply in Grand Rapids, MI. Their vintage stock is large and their prices are always very realistic: http://www.northwesternautosupply.com/ PS: Keep this list for your future needs.

The right hand wiper was optional. I don't recall at this moment, but I think that it was also included in a package as well. Plymouths never had the stainless belt line moldings. Knowing that sometimes helps when trying to identify derelict bodies. Seeing some holes in the door or cowl will tell you that it isn't Plymouth that you are looking at. Still, the major issue is staring right at you! I'm beginning to think that this is too new a car for your otherwise superior skills, John!

John, you're right about the headlight rims. For that you get two points. The big prize is still there to be found. Keep looking!

Here's a photo that you may have seen before. It's a press photo from the Chrysler Corp showing Ma Perkins and her '36 Plymouth. This particular copy is being offered on ebay at the moment. I'll include a link. Anyway, I just noticed something wrong with the picture. Who will be first to identify the flaw? ebay link: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Original-vintage-Ma-Perkins-Press-Photo-1936-Plymouth-/381264584280?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item58c523de58 photo link: http://www.lindapages.com/jamboree/myrtle-11.jpg

Thank you all for your kind responses. VWLFAN, I'm not savvy enough too have ever figured out your brilliant approach on my own. I thank you very much for sharing that with us. I look forward to employing your technique! Likewise, Steve-V, I hadn't heard of "adhuntr.com". It's nice to have new tools! James Sheehan

I'll ad, also, that because ebay owns 25% of Craigslist, there aren't any long lasting companies that are able to offer a site mash at this time. If someone knows of one, please share the details.

To that end, you may find that you can get a pretty good price for the modified frame you have. To buy a new Mustang II front end can cost up to $2,000, plus the cost of installation.

This '36 Dodge frame isn't a great example, but it was one I found for you quite quickly. What you're looking at in this photo is nearly the same as your car would have been, except your's would have modern tubular shock absorbers:

John, I've always enjoyed browsing classifieds ads. Sometimes on a sleepless night I'll just go to Craigslist and search what's available in the way of vintage cars within a days drive of my home in Minneapolis. I'm not crazy enough to search every small town and locality, but I will check in on various cities and larger towns within that vaguely defined area. For example, I often see what's for sale in Chicago (a 5 1/2 hr drive), Milwaukee, Omaha, Des Moines and Fargo. I go to a site, like Chicago, click on "For Sale", then go to the left hand column, deselect "all", and click on "Cars and Trucks" and "Auto Parts". After that I simply enter a year or two into the search field. On occasion, I'll simply start my search at "1920", and then simply backspace the last number to change the search to "1921", etc up to 1940, which is sort where my interest ends. As you can imagine, there isn't ever much in the way of specific years on these searches -- even in a large city like Chicago. So, beneath the listings for "Chicago", Craigslist includes listings for neighboring areas such as (in this case) Rockford. That's how I came across this Gardner. I do this just for the sake of passing time in an interesting and enjoyable manner, but I've acquired some reasonably priced treasures in this way, also. I am mindful of how difficult and discouraging ebay has become for sellers, particularly those who only use it once in a while. I've long been aware that there has been substantial increase in the number and type of cars and parts on local Craigslists that really should be getting some sort of national exposure, but simply aren't. I've come to beleive that sellers are often settling for their local Craigslist because of all of the hassle of dealing with ebay. I fear that as a result, some rare or desirable cars are not getting the exposure that they deserve and are just all that more likely to fall into the hands of those who will street rod anything if given the chance. That is why I often post some of these on the AACA site. I don't have any specific permission from anyone to do so, but no one has complained, except for the occasions when I offend some of the many street or rat rodders who frequent this site. They don't seem to take to kindly to being called the "crate engine crowd". I'll offer another small example of my efforts. Here is a link to a '29 Desoto coupe that I just posted at the same time as this Gardner: http://forums.aaca.org/topic/257888-fs-1929-desoto-rumble-seat-coupe/ It's a wonderful car that deserves to be restored, but at it's current price will likely end up being street rodded. I'm not on a vendetta and it's not a one man campaign, I simply would love to think that maybe my occasional small efforts might result in a nice car falling into the hands of someone who will restore it, rather than rod it.

Craigslist is always full of vintage drivetrains, steering columns and seats. I only mentioned this Olds engine because it's quite old. It's always a sad litany of loss. It's also particularly irksome when you realize that much of it is quite pricey and, as a result, you are being asked to finance the seller's dreams of rat rod glory. I've learned from experience, however, that I have to be careful about complaining lest I offend one of the many rodders who lurk among us here on this site.

I came across this Craigslist ad for a very desirable '29 Desoto 3 window, rumble seat, six wheel coupe for sale in Chicago. Take a look at this under priced beauty. You can bet that the crate engine crowd are drooling over this one: http://chicago.craigslist.org/wcl/cto/5059089395.html http://images.craigslist.org/00v0v_hhVSGknDp7K_600x450.jpg http://images.craigslist.org/01313_hjxfi8SwC21_600x450.jpg

Here's a link to a Craigslist ad for a fairly rare car for sale in Rockford, IL: http://rockford.craigslist.org/cto/5035846045.html http://images.craigslist.org/00Y0Y_cEPvISKDfLn_600x450.jpg

Here's a link to a Craigslist ad for a 1925 or 1926 Buick engine that is in Grand Rapids, MI: http://grandrapids.craigslist.org/pts/5018277750.html http://images.craigslist.org/00M0M_be1oUc1HqL6_600x450.jpg

Here's a link to an engine out of a '28 Olds that for sale on Craigslist in Michigan: http://centralmich.craigslist.org/pts/4976014803.html http://images.craigslist.org/00M0M_56vGdcXWKAc_600x450.jpg