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Scooter Guy

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  1. Jnberg- I'm glad that you posted photos. It is indeed a Doodle Bug and appears to be a Model B with the Clinton engine. I suspect that it is a "real" Model B, as in one originally manufactured with the Clinton engine, but that can be verified by checking the frame's serial tag. It should say 1046B on it indicating it was "born" as a Model B that left the factory with the Clinton engine. This scooter does have the right gas tank and style of tank brackets for a Clinton motor. There should also be a "dip" in the engine mounting plate, at the front, right at the floor board and under the oil drain plug. It is quite complete, but there are some things to be aware of. Please don't take this as criticism or think that I'm knocking down this scooter. I own worse and have saved worse! In terms of completeness, you are missing more than just the belt guard in terms of the sheet metal parts: both the right and left side covers are also missing. Those parts are all available as superior reproductions from Yesterdays Rides Metalworks (Don Jackson). The most significant missing part is the fluid drive clutch (oil filled centrifugal clutch - look like a big aluminum mushroom) - those are hard to find and expensive parts when they do turn up. As far as I am aware those have not ever been reproduced. The Clinton kick starter assembly is missing (which includes a ratcheting starter gear) - the rope start cup is incorrect. Who knows why that was done 68 years ago. Reproduction kick start assemblies are also available from Don Jackson. You also need the air cleaner (flat Simplex mesh air cleaner) and you need the muffler with the flex pipe on it. Both of those pieces are reproduced by Don Jackson. In terms of incorrect items that are there, I see a number of those things as well. There should not be a hand control lever on the left side of the scooter at all. Someone added that for some reason (probably a brake) which means that there is probably a home-brew brake mechanism (or at least linkage) that I can't see very well in the photos. This means that the handlebars would need to be repaired to fix the hole. Otherwise, it's all fairly small stuff: the floor board rubber ribbing (and attachment method) is not correct, the kill switch isn't correct, the handlebar clamp is backwards (and isn't where a "real" Doodle Bug headlight would mount but I see why they did that). Perhaps most significantly, just by looking at the photos of the side profile of the scooter, I am almost certain the the frame is bent. What I'm seeing is that the front fork tube has been pushed in towards the rest of the scooter. When this happens, the front wheel and front fender get too close to the floor board. Often the front fender will hit the floor board when turning in a reasonable radius...that isn't supposed to happen. Yours is not as bad as some I've seen, but your scooter has definitely taken some front end hits that tweaked the frame a bit. It can be fixed - it's not cheap or easy, but if you REALLY want to save it and have the frame absolutely arrow straight to factory specs, call Don Jackson at Yesterdays Rides Metalworks in Oregon. He has a frame jig and can get your frame back to factory specs. Some new steel is will likely be involved in the process, but most of what you have looks salvageable. It's hard to tell if the scooter is just dusty or if there is a lot of surface rust there, but it looks like most of the original paint is pretty much gone. Still, it's pretty neat to find some so well intact after all of those years. I feel that it's at the point where it should be restored. The good news is while pretty much EVERY surface will have to be touched, you will not have to purchase very many of the major components at all. If you are interested in keeping it and/or restoring it, my suggestion would be to get in touch with Don Jackson at Yesterdays Rides Metalworks in Oregon. You can find his website via Google. It's best to call as he's fairly "old school" and not much of a computer guy (his daughter will answer emails after a few days but if you have questions or want to order something, call). Oh...I almost forgot...Clinton Doodle Bugs (the model were made in very limited numbers (1000, thought most think 650-750, tops). Beam Manufacturing company when to the Clinton due to the short supply of Briggs & Stratton NP engines (as used on the other 39,000~ Doodle Bugs). It is said that the Briggs engines were cheaper for Beam to purchase in large lots than the Clinton, but the biggest reason for the short run with Clinton was due to lubrication problems. The early Clintons had an oil pump in them driven by the cam. The problem was that the the pump was rounding off the cam lobes which starved the engine of oil. Many of them "blew up" in the hands of unsuspecting owners. I'm not sure if there was a official recall, but I know that Clinton ended up switching to a splash system with an oil dipper instead and completely scrapping the idea of using an oil pump. The dipper proved to be far more reliable, but the damage was done and Beam went back to Briggs as soon as they could.
  2. Please post a photo of your find or a link to it. Please know that I do not offer public appraisals but would love to see it. Value completely depends on condition and originality. If you just want to flip it, list it on eBay and see what happens. There is a collector market for good scooters and parts that are original and in good condition.
  3. One of the very important things for Ebay sellers to remember (especially those that are only occasional sellers): the terms you put in the auction listing or description DO NOT MATTER. Ebay's overarching policy trumps any terms you spell out including returns and refunds. If your terms are contradictory to Ebay policy, it doesn't matter how many times you state it in your listing, you will NOT win a dispute with an unhappy buyer that wants a refund or wants to return the item. Period. Just another thing to remember when doing business the Ebay way!
  4. That exact truck in the picture is real, as in it exists. It is not photoshopped. I've seen it in person many times. It didn't start out life as a cab-over truck, but was converted at a later date. I don't know who did the conversion / what company made the parts / exactly when it was done, but it was well done. It runs and drives just fine. There was a matching horse trailer with it originally that no longer exists. It it owned by the City of Farmers Branch, Texas. Glad Acres Farm was a horse ranch that was within the city limits of Farmers Branch, Texas. The ranch is long gone and the city is yet another suburb in the greater Dallas-Fort Worth metroplex area. The truck is kept at Farmers Branch Historical Park (free, open to the public year-round) inside of a re-created old Texaco station. They have period photos of the truck before and after the conversion as well. Worth a visit if you're in the area.
  5. I am of the "younger" set, age between 30-40. This, in my opinion, should be the age group to target. Consider the following... 1. Don't call people younger than you "kids." The term is constantly used on this forum and others like it in a demeaning and disrespectful way, especially when you're typically talking about folks 30 and under. Would you like it if the young people constantly referred to all of you over 50 men as "gramps" or "geezer" or "old farts?" C'mon...show them a little respect and you might be surprised. Constantly acting like you're disgusted by their mere presence does NOTHING to encourage younger membership. 2. It's about money. Most young people can't afford to be in this hobby. There, I said it...this is, in my opinion, barrier number 1 to new membership. Young people aren't going to join a club that they can't really participate in and don't really belong in. The fact of the matter is that the unwritten "cost of entry" into the hobby is that you've got to own an old car. The younger set just doesn't have the money. They are too busy paying for college, job hunting, getting married, buying a first house, and making payments on their daily driver that they don't have the extra cash to have an old car. This is why the age demographic of the club is what it is...it takes time to accumulate the money to participate in the hobby. Most young people don't even own a house, so storage/garage/workshop becomes an issue...you can't drive a restoration project to work when it's in a million pieces and you can't restore a car in an apartment parking lot. 3. Times are different than they used to be. Shop class is a rare thing, tech schools and avocational programs are looked down upon. Cars these days that young people encounter every day are just as much computer as they are mechanical. Something goes wrong...off to the dealership it goes...no chance of working on it at home! So, young people don't develop the skills or have the tools to work on an old vehicle. Young people might have different taste than you do and might drive a tuner car, want a street rod, or to build a "resto-mod" Mustang, Camaro, or '57 Chevy and there's nothing wrong with that. I just think that expecting young people to participate in an expensive hobby and to go on to expect them to become club members is not realistic at all. I'll be so bold as to say that most clubs are frankly wasting their time trying to figure out how to recruit young people and keep them happy; when they have the time and the money they'll come to you if they're interested. Forcing the issue is just wasting time and money.
  6. This is the place to go: http://www.simplexservi-cycle.com/ The primary parts source is Wayne Mahaffey in Alabama. His contact information can be found at the link above along with a forum full of good people that know Simplex Servi-Cycles.
  7. Ok, what you have is not a Doodle Bug scooter as is being discussed in this thread here on the forum. What you have is a 1960s-1970s minibike of some sort. There were many brands and manufacturers back then. I can't help you much with that...not the type of machine I deal with. I'd suggest visiting oldminibikes.com where they will be able to identify what you have and work through whatever questions you might have.
  8. Danimal- A photo would help tremendously to identify what you have on your hands. It is not terribly uncommon for the frames to have been modified and/or painted over the years. The id tag was riveted to the inside edge of the fork tube, facing the engine, but they are frequently missing or illegible. Unfortunately, those were the only identification marks on the frame, nothing else was cast or stamped in. However, if your scooter does have a tag, make a note of everything it says exactly as it is stamped and let me know...I can tell you a lot about your frame based just on that little tag. In any case, I'd love to see a photo.
  9. There were several frames, many different steps, and many more types of bodies that could have been fitted. There were not for a specific year or make of motorcycle. EDIT: I *think* you might have the earliest version on your hands, a 1920-1923 frame, before they relocated and before they (eventually) worked in cooperation with Harley Davidson. By the way, you won't be able to post on the AMCA site (antique motorcycles) unless you're a member of the organization. Check here: http://www.gouldingsidecars.com/Home.html
  10. The guys on the CAI -Classic American Iron - forum (since you probably don't want to join the AMCA) are probably your best bet for positively identifying what you have. I know what some of it is (not interested in buying any of it myself), but those guys would know for sure and you'd have people lined up to buy that stuff if it's for sale. Maybe you've already made commitments to the folks here, which is fine...if not, ask on the CAI forum with those pics. You'll be shocked by the responses!
  11. Just because something is "rare" (or even one of a kind) doesn't mean it's valuable or "worth more." Rarity can help drive value up, but is not the only factor by any means and plenty of rare stuff isn't terribly valuable at all. Just don't put too much stock in something being "rare..." there's more to it than that.
  12. That's interesting. Auctionzip is one of the larger, more reputable, and more reliable facilitators of online bidding for a lot of smaller auction companies. I would personally be more inclined to bid in an Auctionzip facilitated auction that I would be to bid through the auction house's own proprietary system. Overall though, I don't feel that online bidding for live auctions works well. I've "lost" items when the computer has logged my bids (correctly) at higher prices than the auctioneer dropped the hammer on to an "in the room bidder." In one case I had an auction company (which I will not name) tell a friend that found himself in the same situation that if he was a "serious bidder" he should have gotten on a plane a flown in for the auction rather than bid online! If that's the stance an auction company wants to take regarding a failure of their own online bidding system, I am not interested in participating. There are many, many other places where I can go a gladly have businesses take my money without the headache! Coral99 - I did take the survey.
  13. Perhaps it's stating the obvious here, but I think we've clouded the waters a bit... Rare and desirable are two different things. Yes, 1 of 1 is (obviously) rare. It doesn't really matter if you figure 1 of 1 based on paint color, radios, engines, etc., etc. I have two modern, daily driver cars that are 1 of 1 provided that I get far enough into the list of options and use them as the basis for my 1 of 1 claim. 1 of 1 being desirable is a whole different question. A car that is 1 of 1 might not be in demand at all or might not be in demand any more than the other 50,000 examples of a given car that are configured slightly differently. This thread is really confusing the two terms. Yes, the car that is the subject of the original post is "rare" in a (I think) technical and extreme sense. Is it any more desirable than any other of the same make and model? I would say "no" just as most of the rest of you are saying.
  14. My experience is that online bidding for live auctions leaves a lot to be desired. The bidding programs and software many auction houses use is frankly just terrible: antiquated, slow, error/glitch prone, etc. Also remember that online bidding for live auctions requires that someone be on the other end with a working connection, computer, and software to be able to accept your bid and make sure that it is conveyed to the auctioneer. THAT is usually where the biggest problem is in my experience...the auctions often move so quickly that real internet bids cannot keep up or the auctioneer drops the hammer to an "in the room" buyer even though there may well have been a higher bidder online whose bid may not have been registered by the auctioneer. It happens all the time. I have been burned too many times and in too many different ways to bother with online bidding for live auctions anymore. I do bid and buy on eBay frequently...it's a whole different animal. They "get" online auctions. There is actually good customer support there that leans heavily towards the buyer in the event that things go bad. I've never had a situation that went bad and/or that eBay customer service didn't make right for me. My experience doing the online bidding for live auctions is almost completely the opposite.
  15. I am as much a preservationist and a history buff as anyone (heck, I have a degree in it - for what that's worth), so let's get that out of the way before I say anything else. Therefore, with that said... It's easy to be critical of someone's decision to throw in the towel when you're looking in from the outside. It doesn't matter if it's crushing cars, demolishing 'historic' buildings or what have you. Mostly it is very easy to condemn such actions when it's not your private property and isn't your money invested in it. As much as I hate to see neat old "stuff" lost and gone forever, I have learned over the years to step back and realize that you (that's the collective 'you') just can't save it all. The only thing an individual can do to stop the crushing of entire yards is to go in and buy the cars and haul them off to your property. That's it. I can certainly understand the allure of the scrap man. Very much a "bird in the hand is worth two in the bush" situation. Scrap price for the car immediately or wait indefinitely to see if you can do one better.
  16. Your comments point towards you being a young person. If that is the case... I don't want to be a complete and total buzz kill here, but want to ask if you've considered the insurance implications of your purchase. The short version is expect to pay a lot if you're a young man owning and driving a high performance (ie big block) car. As a young, inexperienced driver you'll pay out the nose to drive a "old" car without modern safety features that insurance companies love: airbags, anti-lock brakes, traction control, IIHS crash test ratings and so on. Then there is the power: big engines = big $$$$ in insurance premiums. Some companies may not even bother to quote you a rate. Then, pick up a ticket or two or have an accident and expect to either have your insurance cancelled or have the rate skyrocket even further. It is definitely something you should factor into the "is this practical and can I afford it" debate you'll need to have with yourself.
  17. Huh. Interesting. Maybe I'm the only one, but I have never considered Jay Leno to be a dyed in the wool "purist" when it comes to cars. He owns just about everything under the sun: steamers to jet powered and everything in between. Some original, some restored, and even some hot rods and customs. He's a car guy...he seemingly just loves them all. He is equally at home at Pebble Beach or the LA Roadster Show; good for him. I'm right there with him...I am just a car guy. I like just about all of them. Personally I think more of us could follow Jay's example and just be "car guys."
  18. It's a TV show. As much as I like the show overall, I know that these guys aren't really making money on their "picks." There is no way making a few hundred dollars here and there on an item can support two people on the road, a third person at the shop, the other overhead of operating retail stores (two of them actually), and travel costs (van, fuel, and so on). Plus there are 6-8 other people that actually 'work' in each shop that never make the TV show...gotta pay them too! Instead, they are paying the bills by doing the TV show and selling Antique Archaeology logo merchandise (t-shirts, coffee mugs, etc.) and their shops. Most of the really great stuff (especially if it is motorcycle or gas/oil) they keep for themselves. The little they do let go of is pretty high priced, but again...it's not truly where they are making their money: the show pays the bills (along with the merchandise and book deals). I try to just look past that and enjoy the show for what it is. As far as car TV shows go, I'd watch any of them before I'd watch most of the garbage on TV these days. I have zero interest in "reality" shows, sing-offs, dance-off, tabloid news, sit-coms, most made-for-tv dramas and so forth. A bad car show is always better than a "good" reality show...at the very least I can get a laugh or two out of it.
  19. That seems more like a 'warranty repair' or 'technical service bulletin' situation. If we're discussing those, I know that the little motor scooters that I like were subject to such and that was as early as 1946-1947. Just like you mentioned, the dealers received notice, not the end users. If scooters were receiving these, surely cars were too and 1947 couldn't have been the first. Not government mandated recalls, but manufacturer recalls and service notices.
  20. I read the article. It seems to me that the whole point was that high auction prices have raised the general level of awareness for the potential value of collector cars and as a result more and more vehicles are being stored and/or preserved in some sort of future attempt to ride that wave and cash in for the benefit of the "every man" type. I'm sure that one could probably cite examples of that, but I'm not sure it's as widespread as the article implies. It seems to me that it's just another way to spin the fact that high auction prices DO have a trickle down effect, but the part they don't really touch on is that the virtue of the very argument made in the article means higher prices for the "lesser" stuff the article is touching on. The TV effect is similar...televised auctions and shows like American Pickers drive up awareness (and thus prices) on the stuff we're after all the time though it would be hard to quantify just how much and how significant that really is.
  21. I wonder if anyone over at the Barber Museum would know anything about the Premocar, as they are in Birmingham??? Worth a shot!
  22. Maybe this one is legit (and let's hope it is), but these kinds of things end up on automotive & motorcycle message boards all the time and some of them are scams to get folks to donate parts, tools, or even cash. This has all the makings of that: 1. A "kid" that claims to know nothing about cars 2. Mentions some sought-after and specific year and model of car they want 3. Claims to have no money and no tools 4. Mentions current late model vehicle they are "learning" on (despite knowing nothing and having no tools???) 5. Rarely or never answers follow up questions or is never heard from again 6. Might pop up in another thread with ideas for a completely different vehicle they can get "cheap." Just look at this one: in 3 days he goes from a '65 LeSabre Custom to a MGB? Obviously I'm pretty darn skeptical of this sort of thing. I'm more of the "work hard, save your money, and pay cash for what you want" type. I do realize this poster did not come here asking for a handout and that I'll be labeled a curmudgeon for even mentioning this stuff, but it's got all of the ingredients of a potential scam setup. Maybe totally unintentional, but they're still there. I've read quite a few accounts over the years like AlCapone's: members feel sorry and they send stuff off into the great unknown to "help out." The kid turns out to be a 20 or 30 something that's playing the sympathy card and doesn't think they should have to work for anything. If this is legit, my advice would actually be to NOT buy anything right now. Instead, I'd advise saving some money, buying a quality, BASIC set of tools (you do not need Snap-On, Mac, Matco, or Cornwall tools...Craftsman work just fine), and doing A LOT of research, reading, and learning before buying anything as the original poster does not seem to really have the means to afford the buy-in and ongoing costs of the hobby.
  23. I sure don't mean to seem rude, but I can't imagine that I'd ever spend $1000 on ANYTHING unless I already knew exactly what it was. If you have to ask, it's probably not a good purchase for you.
  24. The 303 products that sfair linked to are really good. I'd highly recommend their product line, and if nothing else, using the 303 Aerospace Protectant.
  25. ^^^^THIS^^^^ You get a big +1 or "like" from me on that one! Amen!
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