1910Hupp

Thanks Phil I will talk to the seller and try and find out more about the cranks. I just have to work out the time difference between New Zealand and him so I don't ring him in the middle of the night ! -Karl

Thanks -Hmm the cast bit puts me off a little. Harold Sharon's advice was not to touch a cast crankshaft - I'll consider a bit further -Karl

I'm certainly interested -however don't have the magazine could someone please give me contact details of the supplier Thanks Karl

The drive shaft on my mag has two key slots to allow adjustment of the timing. However recently I had some problems with the nut undoing on the end of the shaft (probably because the magneto and hence shaft was originally clockwise rotation and converted to anticlockwise - meaning the drive shaft nut wants to unwind all the time). My friend who is a motor bike engineer (and does design consulting working for Ducati) rebuilt it for me . Interestingly he tells me that if the taper is right on the shaft then no key is required and the gear will not slip -friction holding it in place . We re-tapered the shaft but still keyed the gear. Karl

Personally I find it very sad . Yes would be fun to drive but not as much fun as a real Model 20 ! $18k ??? I wonder what happened to the original engine/transmission -Now that I would like to buy !

I didn't do my rear end but have T hubs -Every thing looks identical to my 1913 T -Hubs , bearing sleeves and roller bearings -Karl

My drippers used to drip at rest but I adjusted them so that they now don't . Still get at least 16 drops per minute I use 10w/30w oil which helps to get the required drip rate when cold -Karl

Ah Yes - Fortunately (for us Kiwis) normal transmission returned in the second half! Where in NZ does you good lady hail from?

Andrew mine are brass but seem to be made to the Aluminium pattern. There is a repo set that turn up from time to time on Ebay - Made by the same guy who is trying to sell the repo reverse idler gear for a Hup 20. They look good but aren't cheap- mind you neither is reproducing them yourself - Regards Karl -Go the Chiefs tonight against the Brumbies !

David I'm kicking myself that I didn't have a really good look at the gearbox when we had everything out to do the camshaft -would have saved a lot of messing around and given the stuff we found in the engine the quality of the gearbox restoration was always going to be suspect . When I think about it the gearbox has always not quite been right (which in my inexperience I have just attributed to normal for a 1910 car) . The shop has suggested to me that we are looking at about $500 to put things right which is ok -Karl

Further to my recent post on the rebuild of my engine following stripping of the magneto drive on the camshaft due to some shoddy previous work which necessitated the making of a new camshaft. Everything went back in nicely and for a short time things where great then I developed a knocking noise intermittently at idle -out came the engine/ gearbox and back to the engine reconditioner. Today I got the verdict. Apparrently the engine is fine but I have a huge amount of wear on the gearbox shaft with the sliding gears . There is apparrently an 1/8 inch wear on the shaft and another 1/8 the bronze bushing it runs in. The resulting slop is causing the whole shaft to bounce up and down and resulting in tooth to tooth contact on the cogs being about only 1/3 of a tooth depth at times I think an easy fix -Hopefully will get to the shop in a few days to see it for myself -Karl

Thank you for posting and please don't pull your post -If you do that then your excellent knowledge will not be passed on and our whole hobby suffers. Karl

Tom Mine would be about 15 degrees BTC when running nicely Some one has (hopefully accurately) marked 32 degrees BTC on the fly wheel and the sweet spot is about midway between this and TDC . I did get a very detailed PM from a knowledgable lister regards this issue . Essentially what I think he was telling me is that even though you have a range of advance and retard on the interruptor housing as you advance more and more you end up getting less current produced by the magneto as you go outside its optimal pole positions for production of current so there is little to be gained by over advancing . I have a Mod 5 DU4 which apparrently has different ? extended pole pieces so that this is less of a problem Hopefully he will read this and correct me if I am wrong -Karl

It depends- starts and runs best at idle as set up by the factory . For running runs best at a setting slightly more advanced than this . As I have said previously the factory instructions seem to set up the fixed ignition slightly retarded after TDC which sounds a little strange to me . I set up the ignition with the magneto fully retarded and the flywheel in the same factory position for fixed ignition set up . -Seems to work for me- I initally set the magneto up fully retarded on TDC (as most cars of the period did) but never seemed to run right and was quite sluggish for some reason ??? Karl

Sorry Tom I feel for you as well. After pulling my motor recently to replace the camshaft which in the end necessitated a new cam and bottom end rebuild. I have now developed a rattle when the car is warm .Only intermittent at idle in the back of the motor or clutch /gearbox area -It really sounds like something is loose in there and bouncing around . So out comes the motor/gearbox again to investigate this . Frustrating aren't they ! Karl

It came off with just undoing the nuts -Maybe my studs are shorter than yours -Karl

I pulled my oil reservior off recently when I removed my motor -Didn't need to do any thing to the steering column at all and had plenty of clearance ???? It's possible mine is non standard but doesn't look like it is to me Karl

Hi Tom I suspect you have the correct book I have recieved a PM suggesting I check that the instructions I gave you for timing are correct . Like me the messenger can't work out why a fixed magneto would be set retarded! If you look on the post " '10 Hup drive train repairs " (sorry don't now how to link it) the Owners Manual instructions are reproduced by Edgar Bowen (who I think probably knows as much about early Hups as anyone alive) . He (and the Hupp owners book) definitely states rotate the fly wheel 3/8ths of an inch to the right from the TDC (first) mark to set the magneto - That must be retarding (although not much) the ignition. ?? I guess its all academic because the ignition setting that starts the car and allows it to run well is the correct setting. Karl

Here is the article I wrote - a bit chatty but again you get the idea -Karl IMG_0001.pdf IMG.pdf

As per previous posts and so as to not bomb Toms thread David I'm happy to post information on my Mat. I used Bill Cuthberts article as a guide and made some modifications to the way he did it . I wrote an article for my local Vintage Car Club on how I did it and I will try and track it down. In the meantime here is a photo I just took in the garage -Not the best photo as its night here and I used my cellphone but you get the idea -Karl

Tom In the owners manual it tells you how to set up the timing Essentially there are two marks on the front of the forward cylinder block . Looking from the front of the car the left mark is TDC and the mark 3/8ths to the right of this is the one you line up the TDC mark on the flywheel with . You then set up the magneto so that the points are about to open when the rotor is on the segment for Number one spark plug then mesh the cam and magneto gears. Of course that is for the original fixed magneto . What confused me for a long time is I read a report on the Hupmobile which stated that "although the timing was fixed Robert Hupp stole an idea form the French and set the timing slightly advanced" - well of course following the factory instructions actually the ignition is set slightly retarded !. I to have modified the magneto to provide variable timing for mine. I have set the magneto retarded on the original timing mark ( ie slightly retarded from TDC) whch seems to work fine for me although I must admit I don't fiddle with the ignition timimg as much as I though I would when driving. If you need a copy of the owners manual I'm sure one of us will send you a scan of it -Karl

I made a a mat with the embossed Hupmobile logo in it . Was surprisingly easy to do . Made the mold by water jet cutting three peices of scrap metal and laminating them together Cast the logo in Devcon rubber and bonded it to the mat turned out pretty good . I can post a picture if you would like David . Regards Karl

Nice car Tom Can't help you on the rear end as I've never had mine apart and I suspect Mine has been modified as well. With regards to timing if you follow the factory handbook way of timing the engine then you line up TDC on the flywheel with a mark on the front of the block This mark is slightly to the right of a mark which marks TDC ie The correct timing is slightly retarded - All the best Karl

I met with some vintage car friends tonight and one of them mentioned that he had heard that some one (in The States) is considering a run of replacement forged crankshafts for the Model 20. I haven't heard anything about this . Has any one else ? Karl

Thanks couldn't have done it without you all on this list. Used your advice regards pulling the engine , setting up the camshaft ,reinstalling the engine and finally readjusting the gearbox once we had it back in. Thanks once again Have just returned home from an Easter break to Tauranga about 5 hours north of where I live . While there I caught up with a Model 20 that has just been imported from the States. The car is the one featured in a Hemmings article and was on Ebay recently . Vault cars in California sold it . Wow it is one nice car ! Restoration is really top notch. As far as I can work out everything looks original. Most impressively the owners wife drove it to the show. The owner Roger found me through this site so hopefully he will join up and post some photos (my camera wasn't working!) We seem to be getting a collection of early Hups down under -Karl