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#507446 - 05/05/08 12:25 AM
Re: Dealer rip offs
[Re: 'Reatta1']
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dkbuick75
Member
Registered: 06/21/06
Posts: 62
Loc: Oak Forest, IL USA
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Don't expect the dealer to "cut" any deals. 98% are union shops and the techs will infom their labor board rep if the dealer tries to alter from the established labor rate book times that are are allocated for the job you are having done. Do not expect the dealership to be over enthused about you suppling your own parts. First they will make the statement they can't warranty the part-- even if it is New OE in the box, because they did not sell it to you. Second, think of it as walking into a restaurant for breakfast and giving the cook your own eggs to cook for you. It's unfortunate that dealerships don't wise up and sell their parts at the wholesale prices to their customers- because you can buy the same part @ any parts store for the discounted wholesale price, this would really show customer service and generate customer loyalty to that dealership, but most are greedy bean counters and only think and see full maximum profit on any and every service sold through their store. But, if you plan on removing the vehicle from the dealer service dept- which you have the legal right to do, be prepared to pay for some kind of Diagnostic charge for the services the dealer has already performed in inspecting and diagnosing your problem. Usual customary charge is 1 hour diagnostic at their normal labor rate, which can be anywhere from $85 to $125/hr depending on your area of the country. A lot of people do not understand this charge, but remember a tech has already spent time looking at and hooking up various test equipment to your vehicle in order to properly diagnos and tell you what is wrong with your car. In most states you have to sign the repair order first, giving the shop permission to inspect and/or repair your vehicle, prior to the shop touching your car. Just some thoughts to be aware of in case the service advisor has not already explained this to you when you had it towed. Hope this helps.
Edited by dkbuick75 (05/05/08 12:35 AM)
_________________________
Don Adams/Past Director
Chicagoland Chapter/BCA
BCA # 21957
ROA # 10055
1969 49487 Riviera GS (orig, unrest 32k)
1975 4PB67 LeSabre Conv. (Senior)
1997 4NJ37 Skylark 2-dr (1 of 4041)
1998 4GD07 Riviera SC
2007 Pontiac Solstice
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#507461 - 05/05/08 04:43 AM
Re: Dealer rip offs
[Re: 'Reatta1']
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simplyconnected
Member
Registered: 11/06/07
Posts: 147
Loc: Detroit (Royal Oak), Michigan
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My cousin, a retired GM exec., broke down in Kalamazoo. He has a Pontiac Trans Sport. Just like you said, they had to replace the fuel pump, filter, etc. There is only one Pontiac dealership in Kalamazoo, and they are NOT a union shop. They soaked him for $1,000.00.
NAPA had that same pump, within eyeshot of the dealer for under $100.00. BTW, GM doesn't make thier pumps. They buy them, like everyone else.
If it were me, I would pay a tow driver $500, just to save $100, and have it done locally.
Bringing your car to a dealership shows good faith with the corporation. Many times you can speak with a service rep., who may cut you a deal (like, GM will pay for ½, or ¼, for bringing it in to an authorized dealership). The dealership doesn't care who pays, as long as he gets his money. He isn't acting as an agent (between you and the corp.) he is an independent franchise owner, with NO allegiance to anyone but himself.
Michigan has ONE Ford dealership that is unionized (UAW), and there’s only ONE in Ohio. Their rates are no higher than the area’s other dealerships, and both of those dealerships unionized in the past year. GM dealerships aren’t unionized either. Most of those shops treat their mechanics very poorly.
My cousin PAID $1,000. He was hopping mad.
The dealer said, “Cha-CHING! It’s payday!”
For that kind of money, they should have replaced the entire fuel tank, with everything in it, and returned it full of gas. No such luck.
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#507502 - 05/05/08 09:20 AM
Re: Dealer rip offs
[Re: simplyconnected]
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Barney Eaton
Long Time Member
Registered: 11/12/99
Posts: 4555
Loc: Georgetown TX USA
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I believe the reason the "fuel pump" is so high.... they replace the entire in-tank unit.(pump, sock, gas gage sending unit)
It is much quicker to pull and replace than to put on just the fuel pump (which is expensive from GM but not $500)
I learned this in the early '90's when a Bonneville would not start and I was in a parking garage... had to find a wrecker that would clear the building and the Pontiac dealer was wanting the same high price way back then.
After talking to the service manager, they did sell me the parts at "wholesale"
I also learned that GM is the only game in town when it come to the gage sending unit. A good friend purchased a nice Reatta but the gas gage did not work. After doing the diagnostics, they pointed to the intank unit.
The winding part was good but the wiper at the pivot point was not touching...an attempt to bend it and make it rub, snap the thin brass wiper. We made a repair that is still working fine, after trying every auto parts store only to find that it is a GM only part.
_________________________
Barney Eaton
BCA technical advisor for Reattas-
Keeper of the Reatta database-
BCA technical advisor coordinator-
BCA Board member
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#507509 - 05/05/08 09:46 AM
Re: Dealer rip offs
[Re: Barney Eaton]
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Matt Harwood
Member
Registered: 10/09/01
Posts: 1605
Loc: Cleveland, OH
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A good independent mechanic is worth his weight in gold. They're rarely as expensive as a dealer, use pretty much the same parts, and for a simple R&R like this, it's fairly hard to screw it up. I bet an independent could do the whole job for less than the cost of the part from the stealership. The only downside is the diagnostic fee (do they waive it if you do the work there?) and paying to move the car somehow. It might be a wash at that point.
The dealerships are pricing themselves out of the market and parts/service is where they make a good deal of their profits. I have a great local mechanic who has solved all my problems for incredibly reasonable rates and doesn't mind me bringing my own parts for the more obscure repairs. He's a little high on things like mounting/balancing tires, but impossibly cheap for things like extracting broken spark plugs from the Big Red Dodge.
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#507516 - 05/05/08 10:06 AM
Re: Dealer rip offs
[Re: Barney Eaton]
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Ron Green
Member
Registered: 05/24/00
Posts: 1820
Loc: Camp Hill, PA. USA
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I believe the reason the "fuel pump" is so high.... they replace the entire in-tank unit.(pump, sock, gas gage sending unit)
Sounds similar to my wiper motor in my Chevy tow mule. Complete motor is $400 and if you do some research you can buy just the circuit board for $40, however the dealer won't tell you that.
_________________________
Ron Green
AACA Member #337715
AACA Gettysburg Region (board member)
President Amphicar Club (IAOC)
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#507559 - 05/05/08 01:45 PM
Re: Dealer rip offs
[Re: Ron Green]
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Barney Eaton
Long Time Member
Registered: 11/12/99
Posts: 4555
Loc: Georgetown TX USA
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My grandaughter has a '96 BMW and it is always interesting when something needs fixed.
Examples
* Convertible top is a complex series of motors and switches, but it also relys on two "bungy" cords that run from the windshield to the bow above the rear window. When they wear out like old underware, you must "help" the top.
Cost...the bungys are $58 on Ebay, but the entire top must be removed to install...total estimate $1200
* Rear windows use a capstan attached to the motor with a cable wrapped around the capstan, her cable slipped of track, kinked it and BMW does not carry the cable, you must purchase the "regulator" which is the mechanism, but no motor or glass.... price for just the part $325
* Last week the A/C controller failed...could not select anything. BMW price new $600, rebuilt $300, Ebay vendor fixed it for $40
_________________________
Barney Eaton
BCA technical advisor for Reattas-
Keeper of the Reatta database-
BCA technical advisor coordinator-
BCA Board member
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#507566 - 05/05/08 02:09 PM
Re: Dealer rip offs
[Re: Matt Harwood]
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simplyconnected
Member
Registered: 11/06/07
Posts: 147
Loc: Detroit (Royal Oak), Michigan
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A good independent mechanic is worth his weight in gold. They're rarely as expensive as a dealer, use pretty much the same parts, and for a simple R&R like this, it's fairly hard to screw it up.
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#507599 - 05/05/08 05:06 PM
Re: Dealer rip offs
[Re: Ron Green]
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Reatta Man
Member
Registered: 09/25/00
Posts: 1515
Loc: San Antonio, TX USA
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I know about the problem you mentioned about the circuit boad in the wiper motor.
Hoever, please don't mix comparisons; Barney is right. The entire in-tank assembly must be replaced. And, I have heard time and time again that the only way to go is an AC-Delco unit. I'm a fan of NAPA parts, but in this case, OEM is the way to go.
You can get a cheap pump from Autozone or many other places. If you do, keep your receipt because you (or your mechanic) will be replacing it over and over again.
If you can save money by buying an OEM pump from a parts store, great. But please don't ever go the cheap route by just replacing the motor with a 'Made in Bangladesh' part.
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#507632 - 05/05/08 07:47 PM
Re: Dealer rip offs
[Re: Reatta Man]
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simplyconnected
Member
Registered: 11/06/07
Posts: 147
Loc: Detroit (Royal Oak), Michigan
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Does that mean Accel, Bosch, Carter, & Edelbrock are all 'cheap pumps?'
GM (ACDelco, Delphi) has the best pumps? Very interesting. GM and Ford don't make their own fuel pumps, they buy them like everyone else. Where does GM gets pumps from?
The Mustang pump I'm looking at says "Denso" on the pump motor. I recognize Denso as an electric window motor company from Japan. I wonder if Denso is making Edlebrock's pumps, too?
I trust Edelbrock (or any of the others listed). It looks exactly like the Mustang GT 5.0 OEM, and it comes with a 1-year warranty, ALL FOR UNDER A HUNDRED BUCKS! Not $500 or a Grand. 41-gal/hr, $93.99 out the door at Murrays:
http://www.partsamerica.com/ProductDetail.aspx?MfrCode=EDB&MfrPartNumber=17930&PartType=52&PTSet=A
It even comes with a new electrical pigtail, hoses & clamps, and new pickup screen. What warranty does the GM pump come with?
Show me the other $900.00, in labor. I need to be convinced. I love the OEM's, but this is blatant robbery. Nobody can rationalize charging $900 labor for four hours work. A good mechanic can do it in two hours (or better).
An independent garage mechanic couldn't look you in the eye and ask that much money for a fuel pump change. - Dave
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#507663 - 05/05/08 09:31 PM
Re: Dealer rip offs
[Re: simplyconnected]
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JohnD1956
Member
Registered: 03/29/03
Posts: 2207
Loc: New York
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Before running to the nearest dealership and burning the garage doors off,look under the car. While this price sounds exorbitant, what is really involved in the repair? In my former 95 Riviera I believe the entire rear axle assembly has to be dropped to get the tank out. Anyone want to do that cheap?
What's the real shame is that the manufacturers engineer this stuff to be not only next to impossible to do but highly likely it will need to be done. Honestly, some of this stuff could be made with service in mind. Is it really necessary to bury the electric pump, that will inevitably fail, in the tank to begin with? And if so, how about a body access plate so the tank and suspension can stay in place and you only deal with the part?
Also, tools, scanners, shop HVAC energy charges and mortgages and taxes all need to be paid too. Not to mention floor plan interest on mandatory inventory levels. I'm certain there is a profit level to be had here, but Dealerships are not my idea of fun.
_________________________
John C. De Fiore BCA # 3757 56 Super 56R 69 GS 400 Convertible 69 Electra Limited 2 dr.( well, no longer limited although still unique) 95 Riviera Supercharged (sold) 06 Lacrosse CXL Doing my part to stimulate the economy! Member of the UPSTATE NY CHAPTER check it out at http://unybca.skyphix.com/
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#507666 - 05/05/08 09:43 PM
Re: Dealer rip offs
[Re: simplyconnected]
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Dave@Moon
Long Time Member
Registered: 12/14/99
Posts: 7374
Loc: Fairfield (Cincinnati), OH
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The Mustang pump I'm looking at says "Denso" on the pump motor. I recognize Denso as an electric window motor company from Japan. I wonder if Denso is making Edlebrock's pumps, too?
Denso is one of the largest suppliers to automotive industry, and they happen to be the world's largest supplier of fuel pumps (OEM & aftermarket) and several other components. Frankly it wouldn't suprise me at all if they made pumps for Edelbrock. In fact I'd bet it's a certainty that they make at least one of the pumps on your list.
_________________________
"I stand by all the misstatements that I've made."
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#507672 - 05/05/08 09:57 PM
Re: Dealer rip offs
[Re: Dave@Moon]
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Barney Eaton
Long Time Member
Registered: 11/12/99
Posts: 4555
Loc: Georgetown TX USA
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I have changed the fuel pump on a 1991 Reatta several times.
(rusty tank causing all the problems, last time we changed the tank) Check with the parts houses and many offer lifetime pumps.
I guess it depends on the status of your Park Ave at this time. If it is at a GM dealer, you could have it towed to a mechanic. Maybe they would allow you to take the tank and install the pump, you could then return the tank to them for install. Of course they will not warrent any of the work.
Do an Ebay search for gas tanks that fit your 01 Park Ave.
I suspect there are several GM cars that use the same gas tank, which means the pump/gas gage assembly is the same.
You could get a tank and pump assembly from a wreck and install that.
_________________________
Barney Eaton
BCA technical advisor for Reattas-
Keeper of the Reatta database-
BCA technical advisor coordinator-
BCA Board member
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#507685 - 05/05/08 10:51 PM
Re: Dealer rip offs
[Re: Barney Eaton]
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Bill_Boro
New Member
Registered: 03/09/08
Posts: 7
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If you replace the pump more than once due to rust I would look into at least using a gas tank sealer if you don't buy a new tank before replacing the pump again. Eastwood sells a sealer does and one have any experiance with it or similar product?
_________________________
89 Reatta
82 TransAm
47 Frazer
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