25186 Members
87 Forums
114367 Topics
506899 Posts
Max Online: 479 @ 03/26/08 04:18 PM
|
|
|
Lost your password? Can't remember your username? Having registration problems? Answers to many of these problems can be
FOUND HERE!
|
|
|
#506297 - 04/30/08 09:07 AM
Re: Anyone else noticing this?
[Re: brh]
|
ewing
Member
Registered: 12/11/04
Posts: 472
Loc: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
|
I haven't measured it here, but I have had discussions with guys here who use their trucks for a living and they get less than 90% of their prior gas mileage on a tank. We are sopposed to have a 10% ethanol blend here. So if you extend that basic math, we are going a shorter distance on the same amount of gasoline. The ethanol is a 'filler' and a poor one at that if it reduces the overall net mileage of pure gas we buy.
I don't understand the logic or the science behind ethanol blended gas. It may make sense if we ran pure ethanol,( don't blend the fuels) but who can do that with current engines?
I'd really like to see actual mileage test results , in controlled conditions, at various speeds, and test engines.
_________________________
John
38 McLaughlin 4 Dr Special, the Iron Man and star car in the Hessen Affair
47 Roadmaster Conv.
58 Pontiac Parisienne, Canadian version of the Bonneville
67 Coronet 500
72 Riviera
88 Olds Royale
98 Firebird Formula
02 Trans Am
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#506464 - 04/30/08 08:52 PM
Re: Anyone else noticing this?
[Re: brh]
|
Bhigdog
Member
Registered: 10/23/01
Posts: 1460
Loc: Eastern PA
|
Btu's = energy or work produced
One gallon of ethanol contains 80,000 BTU
One gallon of gasoline contains 115,000 BTU
One gallon of diesel contains 130,500 BTU
There's your answer. A gallon of ethanol just does not contain enough energy to propel your car as far as one gallon of gasoline........Bob
_________________________
Bob Beck
39 Chev PU
69 big block Corvette
55 Buick 66C
57 Buick 46C
55 Olds S-88
56 Chrysler St. Regis
AACA, BCA, WPC, USHGA
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#506581 - 05/01/08 09:28 AM
Re: Anyone else noticing this?
[Re: Bhigdog]
|
Matt Harwood
Member
Registered: 10/09/01
Posts: 1605
Loc: Cleveland, OH
|
I wonder if prices like this, which put the squeeze on the independent station owners, might be causing them to cheat a little bit. There was a recent TV news story locally about some gas stations that have intentionally inaccurate pumps that might be off by as much as 10%. Looking at it pumping, it's hard to see, but when they slowed it down, you could see the dollar figure skipping numbers by $0.10 every few seconds. You probably wouldn't notice it unless you watched it the entire time, and maybe not even then because the numbers move so fast anyway. Who watches? I don't.
I haven't noticed a change in my overall mileage, but I've only been driving my current car since Xmas, and don't have a baseline. However, I have boosted my mileage considerably by just using the cruise control all the time, both in the car and in the Big Red Dodge.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#506671 - 05/01/08 05:28 PM
Re: Anyone else noticing this?
[Re: brh]
|
old-tank
Member
Registered: 12/29/99
Posts: 967
Loc: Seguin, TX, USA
|
I have not noticed a decrease in mileage on my older carbureted cars, but they are all pinging like crazy...and this is during the cool time of the year where high cylinder head temperatures are not a factor. On the other hand the newer computerized cars are getting about 10% poorer economy, probably because the computer retards the timing to run without pinging on the available fuel. There was some discussion on a local radio automotive talk show suggesting that selecting a higher octane grade fuel gives better economy, but the overall cost is the same.
Willie
_________________________
55 Centurys 63; 63; 66C People who use tools bleed a lot! Keep your mouth open so it doesn't hit you in the face! BuickRestorer
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#506760 - 05/02/08 12:50 AM
Re: Anyone else noticing this?
[Re: old-tank]
|
NTX5467
Long Time Member
Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 2720
Loc: DFW, TX
|
Back when the first reformulated gasolines were being ready to hit the market, but were already in certain parts of the country, I found the Chevron website had a LOT of information on the effects of the RFG back then. Their test fleets generally took longer to start from cold, had a little poorer driveability in the warm-up period, and got about 5% less fuel econmomy. I got ready to begin tweaking carb settings, but when the fuel finally hit, the only thing I could tell was about 3% less fuel economy on, say, my '70 Skylark 350-2bbl. In short, no significant changes.
I think the pinging can be the result of carbon build-up in the cylinders rather than octane loss. Always seemed strange that when we got the lead out of fuels and such, carbon buildup became more of an issue--especially in the last 10 years or so. Might also be the result of combustion chambers with less "active air" regions than others, which can allow the formation of carbon deposits in the less active air areas of the chamber.
I do know the new diesels are not getting the economy of the last-year's-model . . . across the board. I also understand that when the particulate trap "fires off", it might be something to see.
Enjoy!
NTX5467
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#506788 - 05/02/08 07:52 AM
Re: Anyone else noticing this?
[Re: my3buicks]
|
sintid58
Member
Registered: 04/24/01
Posts: 945
Loc: Tea South Dakota
|
WE can look forward to even less gas mileage once the "summer blend" hits the pumps. Probably like watering down the Whiskey to make even more profit.
Actually summer gas is better than winter gas. It is formulated to not evaporate as quickly per federal law and there for has higher BTU rate. I learned this while hauling gasoline part time in Missouri, and have found this to be true here in SD.
_________________________
07 Dodge Ram, 2003 Le Sabre, 95 Skylark, 95 Chevy PU, 70 Skylark 2 door Sedan, 1948 John Deere MT Dads cars 02 Park Ave, 99 Park Ave, 90 LeSabre, 73 Electra, 69 Electra Conv, 67 LeSabre (one owner), 55 Special, 1952 IH 3/4 pickup BCA 35109 BDE 207
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#506795 - 05/02/08 08:06 AM
Re: Anyone else noticing this?
[Re: sintid58]
|
BJM
Member
Registered: 10/27/05
Posts: 1386
|
We still have a few years to go to sort everything out. Strap in. 1st, I live in Iowa and of course have a strong interest in Ethanol production. But it is a renewable fuel, so even if we get worse gas mileage, it still isn't a fossil fuel, that will continue to be of limited availability.
I see the emphasis on Ethanol as a movement of the debate away from oil, to solutions to the shortage/high prices. If we continued with $1.50 gas then where is the incentive for GM to come out with the VOLT or hydrogen powered cars or whatever ideas are coming out.
So, this is about how the landscape will be 10 years from now. If we have automobiles that are hybrids/85% E Fuel capable and or electric, then that leaves a longer term stock of fossil fuels for the old cars for 50 to 200 years.
I don't mind driving a Prius or a VOLT or whatever in my daily commute. The creature comforts beats whatever was available 25 years ago. Then on the weekend or nice evenings, drive the vintage car(s).
_________________________
Bryan "Jake" Moran
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#506862 - 05/02/08 01:03 PM
Re: Anyone else noticing this?
[Re: BJM]
|
HurstGN
Member
Registered: 03/05/03
Posts: 197
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
|
We still have a few years to go to sort everything out. Strap in. 1st, I live in Iowa and of course have a strong interest in Ethanol production. But it is a renewable fuel, so even if we get worse gas mileage, it still isn't a fossil fuel, that will continue to be of limited availability.
Let's not forget electric.
I see the emphasis on Ethanol as a movement of the debate away from oil, to solutions to the shortage/high prices. If we continued with $1.50 gas then where is the incentive for GM to come out with the VOLT or hydrogen powered cars or whatever ideas are coming out.
Regardless of the price of a gallon of gas, the incentive is to build a better mousetrap. If you develop a vehicle that has the same capabilities as a gasoline powered vehicle, but do it more economically, then you've built the better mousetrap and it will sell. Case in point, the Tesla. Tesla motors is bringing to market an electric vehicle capable of running with any 2 seat roadster made by any manufacturer. What's it cost? About $100,000. OUCH! That's a bit of a problem. That's why Tesla targeted the performance enthusiast with disposible income. The idea is to prove, not only can an electric car work, but it can perform on par with a gas powered vehicle, and do it more efficiently. Once they have the initial "buy in" that the technology works and works well, then they target moving to the family sedan and more. Can this work? Look at CD's. When they first came out, they were not popular, and cost a fortune. Once people were exposed to the quality, and added versatility (remember the record player for the car, it was a disaster because it didn't work well...cd's fare very well in the car), the technology was honed to be pretty inexpensive to build. Next thing you know, CD players are everywhere and when they broke the $100 barrier, they were mainstream. The Tesla is taking the same approach. Yes, there is incentive...it's to build a better product.
So, this is about how the landscape will be 10 years from now. If we have automobiles that are hybrids/85% E Fuel capable and or electric, then that leaves a longer term stock of fossil fuels for the old cars for 50 to 200 years.
OK, you didn't forget electric, it was just delayed till here.  I'd like to see this...I have some old cars I want to drive for a long time.
I don't mind driving a Prius or a VOLT or whatever in my daily commute. The creature comforts beats whatever was available 25 years ago. Then on the weekend or nice evenings, drive the vintage car(s).
OK, I have to take some exception to that.....I can't see myself driving a Prius. Far too small, and I like to press the right pedal and get some fun out of a car. Now if it were a Tesla with the performance, that I can see. But right now, I'm not in the position to afford one, so somebody else will have to champion that moving forward.
_________________________
Visit the Pittsburgh Tri-Shields from your PC Dan McCann BCA #34734 October 2007 Hemmings Muscle Machines Feature Car - 1982 Turbocharged Grand National
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#508167 - 05/07/08 10:56 PM
Re: Anyone else noticing this?
[Re: HurstGN]
|
Dave@Moon
Long Time Member
Registered: 12/14/99
Posts: 7374
Loc: Fairfield (Cincinnati), OH
|
I can't see myself driving a Prius. Far too small, and I like to press the right pedal and get some fun out of a car.
Huh?
Here's a comparison chart of the Prius with the G6, Camry, Fusion, and Malibu. The size comparisons are at the bottom. While the Prius isn't a really big car, it certainly deserves it's mid-size car status. It holds it's own with any of these. You can delete any of these choices and insert a Corolla, Mini, Yaris, or Cobalt to see how it stacks up to a truly "small" car. I've yet to encounter a task where it was inadequate as a family sedan. It is NOT a small car!
The 0-60 and 1/4 mile times are not listed for the Prius, but it's competitive with all of them in both specs (generally 10 sec. 0-60, 17 sec. 1/4 mile). Still I win virtually all the stop light Grand Prixs I find short of Vettes and hot Mustangs. The Prius is pretty much awesome from 0 to 30! It handles well as well, typical for any family car. Compared to an appropriate competitor, it's at least average or better.
Finally, while the Prius doesn't look like much to be sure, that's O.K. Driving one you have lots of time to admire the clean lines of other cars as you pass them while they line up for the gas you won't need until next week. 
=========
That said, ethanol in gasoline does drop gas mileage by 5-8%. You can detect it drivng a 20 mpg car. It's obvious when you're driving a 48 mpg car!
I lose at least 4 mpg when I fill up on PA gas when I go to Pittsburgh in the summer compared to what I get on Ohio gas, and it isn't the hills. The mileage (monitored continuously by the on screen display) doesn't drop an iota until I fill up with PA gas.
_________________________
"I stand by all the misstatements that I've made."
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
Moderator: BUICK RACER, R W Burgess, 24T42, Peter J.Heizmann, Steve Moskowitz, Brenda Shore, gagliaj
|
