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#501395 - 04/10/08 10:27 PM
Re: problems with the non-zinc oil - or is it a problem?
[Re: austinsailor]
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brian
Member
Registered: 06/18/05
Posts: 79
Loc: Coquitlam, BC Canada
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I use DELO by Chevron (I'm told it stands for Diesel Engine Lubricating Oil - makes sense) or any other diesel rated oil from a reputable manufacturer in all my old iron. I've never had any type of lubrication failure, or evidence of excessive wear.
Brian
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#501508 - 04/11/08 02:08 PM
Re: problems with the non-zinc oil - or is it a problem?
[Re: brian]
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austinsailor
Member
Registered: 06/05/07
Posts: 27
Loc: Central Missouri
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That has been safe up to now. But diesel oil is also changing. If you look at the rating, if it's CJ (for "compression ignition" version J), which is the current latest, it has a lower zinc value. This is new this spring, I think. If it's CI or any earlier letter in the alphabet, it's the old formula. I find both on the shelf now, some even earlier than CI. But, most Rotella seems to be CJ, and some Delo as well.
If it's going to be a problem at all, soon it will be a problem with our good diesel oils as well. I'm still unclear as to whether it's a problem for our old cars or not.
Surely someone will come out with an additive soon to cover it, like they do for leaded gas.
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1940 dodge 4 door (2 of them)
1942 Plymouth 2 door
1947 dodge 3 ton road tractor
1947 ford 6 banger coupe
1975 'Vette
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#503138 - 04/17/08 08:28 PM
Re: problems with the non-zinc oil - or is it a problem?
[Re: Ron of Chicago]
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Bob Call
Member
Registered: 11/25/07
Posts: 36
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I have to wade in on this one.
I am a hot rod guy and the reduction of zinc and other metals in engine oil is a big problem. Austin said the introduction of zinc and the near disappearance of cam failure was not a coincidence. Now with the near elimination of zinc cam failure has reappeared big time. In addition to zinc being reduced in the newest version of diesel oil, GM has stopped selling its EOS (Engine Oil Supplement).
Most all new cars and trucks now have roller lifters so they don't have a problem. The problem is with the flat lifters. The newly formulated oils can't stand up to the pressure between the lifter face and the cam lobe. The cam being the softer of the two fails.
In the hot rod fraternity we have turned to high performance synthetic oils like Redline, Lucas and Royal Purple. Also there are zinc additives made by CD-2 and ZddPlus. Look at ZddPlus website. These products can be found at the big chain parts stores or online at the manufacturer's sites or at jegs.com or summitracing.com.
I would suggest that a $10 bottle of ZDDP additive at each oil change would be cheap insurance for your collector car.
Edited by Bob Call (05/09/08 11:15 AM)
Edit Reason: correct spelling
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#504377 - 04/22/08 05:05 PM
Re: problems with the non-zinc oil - or is it a problem?
[Re: austinsailor]
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wbower3
Member
Registered: 12/08/05
Posts: 77
Loc: Okla. City,OK
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Austinsailor, I bacame aware of the zinc issue recently in reading a2-3 month old issue of StreetRodder Mag. I was not aware of it before. I'm building a 270ci Hemi and I intend to use the zinc/phosphorus additives in it, at least until the engine is broken in and has some miles on it. I did the same by using early vintage Rotella oil to breakin a '38 Dodge engine.
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wbower3
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#504652 - 04/23/08 05:38 PM
Re: problems with the non-zinc oil - or is it a problem?
[Re: austinsailor]
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wbower3
Member
Registered: 12/08/05
Posts: 77
Loc: Okla. City,OK
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I don't have them handy. I'll look in StreetRodder and post the info they give in a couple of days.
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wbower3
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#506251 - 04/30/08 12:01 AM
Re: problems with the non-zinc oil - or is it a problem?
[Re: wbower3]
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Chacheska
Member
Registered: 04/04/01
Posts: 122
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I've been aware of this problem for over a year. Back then I would ask fellow pre-war car club members about it and no one seemed to have heard of the problem. I stocked up on EOS (engine oil supplement) from GM which is high in zinc and phosphorous. Most of the old supplies are gone now. I found dealers who had old stock left. I'm not sure which bottle Ron is referring to but $7 for 4 oz is a colossal rip-off. The EOS I've bought comes in 16 oz bottles and they cost me $6.97 a bottle. While I was buying up a couple of cases I discovered a dealership that had 32 oz cans (older formula) of EOS for $6.41! That's right, twice the additive for less than half the price of the 16 oz. I don't understand how GM priced their stock but I was able to buy 2 cases of the 32 oz cans from 2 different dealerships. There's an ad in Old Cars Weekly from a company that sells ZDDP additive supplements but it's pretty expensive. There have been numerous articles written about this mostly from last summer in various car publications. I believe this is an issue for all cars up to about 1996, if I'm not mistaken. Using the older, higher zinc and phosphorus oils in newer engines can cause catalytic converter failure from what I've been told by a couple of mechanics I know and trust and from a few articles I've read.
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#507159 - 05/03/08 05:29 PM
Re: problems with the non-zinc oil - or is it a problem?
[Re: austinsailor]
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Chacheska
Member
Registered: 04/04/01
Posts: 122
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Check Craigslist. I saw Rotella oil selling by the barrel for less than $7.45 a gallon. One guy was selling it for $5 a gallon locally but I just missed it. If you shop around you can do better than $7.45. Be patient. Any of the older oil classifications has more ZDDP in it so SL should be fine. I believe the change came with the SM classification. I used to buy oil by the case 15 years ago whenever they had specials going. I have over 200 gallons of older oil stocked up. Most are SJ and some SI. I wasn't anticipating this zinc & phosphorus problem. I just got lucky.
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#508475 - 05/09/08 11:24 AM
Re: problems with the non-zinc oil - or is it a problem?
[Re: yirgaman]
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Bob Call
Member
Registered: 11/25/07
Posts: 36
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Austin, et al
Zinc additives are made by several companies. Two of the better know are CD-2 (a really old company in the oil additive business) and ZddPlus. The CD-2 zinc additive can be found in most big chain auto parts stores. Google Zddplus for their website where you can order online.
I think most of us that are concerned about cam failure are owners of older cars and engines that are pre catalytic converter so early failure of the cat converter is not an issue.
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